burnish tip...yes or no

Straightpool_99 said:

Once again I find myself at odds with the rest of the forum...I must have installed 20 triangle tips, BY HAND, and I have never ever burnished any of them. Triangles are not prone to mushrooming. They will probably move once, or at most twice, and then remain stable, in my experience. What's the big deal taking just a little bit off the side of the tip, anyway? I'm not talking huge overhanging mushroom tip either. Just 2 minutes of your time...Who doesn't have time for TWO minutes, anyway? Are you telling me that if a time-travelling young Sharon Stone would give you "full access" for 2 minutes, you wouldn't have the time?

When it comes to layered tips, it becomes even more pointless. If the repair person has a bad day, or doesn't know what he is doing, the heat from burnishing (on a lathe) can completely destroy the tip. I think this is one of the big reasons for the complaints some people have with layered tips. The guy putting them on butchered them, trying to make them look nice! Or the owner did the infantry style bayonet charge with the tip pick, (stab, twist, retract). Again, one or at most two trimmings (just very carefully with a strip of sandpaper that never touches the ferrule) will do the job. But if you are playing with some kind of sponge tip like Kamui SS, then burnishing with glue or something will even make them play funny. I hate them anyway, but with such treatment they're even worse!

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While we are on the subject of glue making tips play funny...
I just got a new mezz with a kamui soft tan. It doesn't have the juice to move the cue ball like a hard tip, but when I removed the initial mushroom with the grazer it cut like it was plastic, definitely hard to cut and made a squeaking sound. Plays ok but kinda plays eratically if I don't hit exact. This isn't like any other soft tip I've played. Could it be glue or over burnished? Or just kamui soft tan? Got it from seyberts

Knels said:

While we are on the subject of glue making tips play funny...
I just got a new mezz with a kamui soft tan. It doesn't have the juice to move the cue ball like a hard tip, but when I removed the initial mushroom with the grazer it cut like it was plastic, definitely hard to cut and made a squeaking sound. Plays ok but kinda plays eratically if I don't hit exact. This isn't like any other soft tip I've played. Could it be glue or over burnished? Or just kamui soft tan? Got it from seyberts

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Could be the tip is a little loose

Knels said:

While we are on the subject of glue making tips play funny...
I just got a new mezz with a kamui soft tan. It doesn't have the juice to move the cue ball like a hard tip, but when I removed the initial mushroom with the grazer it cut like it was plastic, definitely hard to cut and made a squeaking sound. Plays ok but kinda plays eratically if I don't hit exact. This isn't like any other soft tip I've played. Could it be glue or over burnished? Or just kamui soft tan? Got it from seyberts

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Several things can "kill" a tip. If you use a tip-pick the wrong way, it delaminates. If it gets exposed to water, it'll "disolve", get hard all the way through or even rot. It can dry out from being too old. Also aggressive burnishing and "coatings" applied to the sides, cutting with blunt tools on lathes or by hand etc. It's impossible to know, but to me it sounds like yours may have dried out from being stored too long or in a bad climate/room. That would be my guess, but the others are possible too. Single layer tips are much more resistant to most of these factors, though moisture and improper cutting will definitely kill them too.

Usually if the tip gets damaged this way (drying out), you can get a little more life out of it by taking it down about a third or a little less to get to the "fresh" leather, but keep in mind, it's not going to last all that long anyways because odds are, it's drier than a new tip even at that "depth". You may get a couple of months out of it if you're lucky, maybe more if you play less often. Just a guess. Although if the tip starts developing "hard spots" over and over, that cannot easily be scuffed out, you need to discard it or take it down aggressively. If you probe your cuetips "dome" with your fingernail you may feel isolated spots that are much harder than the surrounding area, these are what I'm talking about. Tips who gets these are likely ruined and will never play well again.

There is one more phenomenon that doesn't apply to your tip (probably) but I've seen it several times with Kamuis and Tigers (soft versions): Sometimes the inside of the tips, or one of the sides "collapse" and becomes almost like a "jelly", it's never happened with one of the tips I've installed myself, but it happened to my friend twice in a row, which I found weird. Must have had a bad batch of tips. That tip is toast! I've never seen this with hard tips, but the softer ones do this sometimes. You'll notice that you get very little action on the cueball with tips like that and you can feel it wobble when you push with your nail.

My advice would be to gently take your tip down, just a little bit, to see if it behaves more consistently then. Carefully scuff and chalk and shoot some intermediate test shots. If you still feel the tip is acting erraticly, take down a little more and repeat.

Not a professional installer, these observations are based on installing my own tips and those of my friends for approximately 20 years, but mostly from observing hack jobs done by others.

Thx for the advice straightpool. I was playing kamui soft black but lo and behold I had to stop attempting draw for a while due to so many miscues. Glazed like hell three months in. I will take it down some and see what happens.

problem is they get the glue or burnishing done too high to make it look pretty for you. this makes the contact point close to where that is and will make an easy miscue on shots where otherwise you might get away with it.

burnish yourself a little at a time and not near the top of the tipline.

Straightpool_99 said:

(snip)

There is one more phenomenon that doesn't apply to your tip (probably) but I've seen it several times with Kamuis and Tigers (soft versions): Sometimes the inside of the tips, or one of the sides "collapse" and becomes almost like a "jelly", it's never happened with one of the tips I've installed myself, but it happened to my friend twice in a row, which I found weird. Must have had a bad batch of tips. That tip is toast! I've never seen this with hard tips, but the softer ones do this sometimes. You'll notice that you get very little action on the cueball with tips like that and you can feel it wobble when you push with your nail.
(snip).

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This can happen after using one of those burnishers that schmooshes the tip as you spin the cue. These things can elongate the tip, thus making it less dense and taller than it was before burnishing.

So be careful with the burnishers that wrap around your tip and don't push the cue too deeply into those or your tip could go soft and become taller.

Perhaps your friend that had this happen twice uses such a burnisher?



Jeff Livingston

Johnny Rosato said:

YES. Spit + leather, paper towel, brown paper bag, or US paper currency, (higher denomination, better results)

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Also, when I wax the shaft I apply wax to the tip sides and it works great. The sides of the tip are shiny and looks like a professional instal.

Johnny Rosato said:

YES. Spit + leather, paper towel, brown paper bag, or US paper currency, (higher denomination, better results)

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LOL! I've done all of these but what I've used most is cut up paperback book covers from trade paperbacks from the book bindery I worked in for 27 years. Been gone twenty years now but I still have a small stack of these and they work well using either the white paper side or the laminated side. They seen to last quite a while if I don't use them TOO often

Everything is ok now, I took off maybe one layers worth of covering on my new kamui soft tan. Behaving much better now. Thx for the info guys/ straight pool.

I burnish all my tips. Making the side hard, helps prevent mushrooming...

Years ago, when I had people with lathes put on my layered tips, I was always nervous about the friction heat. Even when using super fine sand paper to smooth the tip and ferrule seam or other material to burnish the tip. Now, I almost always put my own tips on using hand tools.
When I burnish my tips, I use a piece of smooth leather. I slightly wet the leather instead of the tip. I feel there is less chance of getting the tip too wet, especially single layer tips. I have used other materials in the past, such as a dollar bills or hard smooth paper. They all seem to do okay.

I think it all depends upon the tip, ferrule and the person's playing style.

I use a tip that 2 weeks after you put it on. You burnish it. Once you do that, it plays awesome.