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JohnnyOzone
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01-24-2012, 09:10 PM

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Originally Posted by ABall View Post
Darren didn't do the same thing as you according to what you're saying. You say you collected the balls. Darren only moved 2 balls and didn't touch any others when he was told he still owed one. In your situation, it would be impossible to put all the balls back. In his situation, most of the balls were still in their original location.
Yes...he did.

There was only one object ball on the table when SVB moved it and started to rack the balls - cost him the game


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01-24-2012, 09:11 PM

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Originally Posted by Roy Steffensen View Post
At my first DCC I played Brumback in one-pocket, and ran 8-and-out to make it 2-2 and my break. I collected the balls, realized I owed a ball, and we called the TD and he said I lost the game, and lost the match 3-1 instead.

Now Darren did the SAME on the TV-table. They replace the balls, and continue playing.

It should have been automatically loss of game for him too... Is it because he is a world champ?

For that reason, I don`t have respect for the Tournament Directors. I don`t care for them. Some times, some of them are sleezy.
Feel sorry for your loss of match in that manner.:s orry:





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01-24-2012, 09:19 PM

Would love to hear from someone who was present at Darren's match and can satisfactorily explain the ruling in his favor. So far we haven't heard it.


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01-24-2012, 09:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABall View Post
Darren didn't do the same thing as you according to what you're saying. You say you collected the balls. Darren only moved 2 balls and didn't touch any others when he was told he still owed one. In your situation, it would be impossible to put all the balls back. In his situation, most of the balls were still in their original location.
The difference in the 2 sounds like saying its ok she is just a little pregnant. LOL pregnant is pregnant and move one ball or all the rule is broke.
  
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01-24-2012, 09:48 PM

Ken shuman seems a little biased in shady in my opinion...just saying, not trying to start anything but I be been at the open this year and the derby and I be seen more than one thing that to me was a little "off"
  
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01-24-2012, 10:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by or1pkt View Post
Ken shuman seems a little biased in shady in my opinion...just saying, not trying to start anything but I be been at the open this year and the derby and I be seen more than one thing that to me was a little "off"
Ken Schuman didn't make the ruling in Darren's match. Ken made the call Monday night against Shane and called it a loss of game. The call between Darren and Jason was made by Bill; Ken was not even in the room so it is unfair to call him shady without even being there and knowing the situation.

In the bank final he called it exactly as it should have been.
  
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01-24-2012, 10:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by brandoncook26 View Post
Ken Schuman didn't make the ruling in Darren's match. Ken made the call Monday night against Shane and called it a loss of game. The call between Darren and Jason was made by Bill; Ken was not even in the room so it is unfair to call him shady without even being there and knowing the situation.

In the bank final he called it exactly as it should have been.
Don't recall ever saying I was there for that exact ruling I was speaking of my opinion in general as far as some other things I had seen...thanks
  
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01-25-2012, 07:19 AM

Sorry to hear. Should be same for everyone.
  
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My opinion - 01-25-2012, 08:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by brandoncook26 View Post
Ken Schuman didn't make the ruling in Darren's match. Ken made the call Monday night against Shane and called it a loss of game. The call between Darren and Jason was made by Bill; Ken was not even in the room so it is unfair to call him shady without even being there and knowing the situation.

In the bank final he called it exactly as it should have been.
This was my 10th year at DCC, playing the bank event. Not knowing exactly what happened, or how many balls are moved, makes this tricky. Look at the one pocket rules, as they are posted on the website. I do know, when I played the one pocket and banks a few years ago, that IF your opponent moves the moves the balls, thinking you are out, the game is over. If you move multiple balls, thinking the game is over, I believe it is like conceding the game. That's my personal opinion. As for the other call, on Darrens match, it could be that only 2 balls were moved, as suggested, or the guy who made the call, didn't know.

As for fairness at the the Derby, and Ken Shuman's direction,,,, this is also, my opinion. I was scheduled to play a well known one pocket player at the Executive West several years ago in one pocket at 10am, when Scott Smith was running the DCC. After they had the draw posted, they said they were changing the morning start times to 11am. That was fine. At 11, I was at my table hitting some balls and waiting. 11:15 a friend comes up and asked if we started yet, I realized the time and went to the front desk. They refused to put him on the clock, and he finally shows at 11:45. In Scott Smiths defense, he wasn't at the desk, but this should never happen to anyone.

This year, I was waiting on a TOP rated Pro for a bank match scheduled at 10am. At 5 after, I went to the desk, and had them page him, and they put him on the clock. At 11:16 they forfeited him. Mr. Shuman was right there, and did exactly what he should have. There will always be some conflict with the rules, when you have several people making calls. But, overall, the DCC is a very well ran event, or it wouldn't have had a 14 year run. Greg and his staff do a great job in dealing with a large number of players, and some really tough personalities.
  
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01-25-2012, 08:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8up View Post
The difference in the 2 sounds like saying its ok she is just a little pregnant. LOL pregnant is pregnant and move one ball or all the rule is broke.
I agree. If you try and say he 'only' moved two balls and Roy moved them all so that is different, then you would really have to come up with a number that causes loss of game. For example, 2 is ok, 3 is ok, but 4 or more is loss of game. That's pretty dumb. It's either a loss or it isn't. I agree completely with Roy.
  
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01-25-2012, 08:57 AM

Does it really matter if it's just 2 balls or all the balls? Rules are rules and they should stick by it for everyone. Whats the point of the rule if a ref is just gonna go by his/her discretion? It's either the balls were move or it wasn't.


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01-25-2012, 09:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by punter View Post
I agree. If you try and say he 'only' moved two balls and Roy moved them all so that is different, then you would really have to come up with a number that causes loss of game. For example, 2 is ok, 3 is ok, but 4 or more is loss of game. That's pretty dumb. It's either a loss or it isn't. I agree completely with Roy.
I don't know about 1 pocket rules(I would think they would be the same)but in other billiard games, one is not a loss, 2 is.


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01-25-2012, 09:39 AM

In my opinion when you moved the balls it was a loss if you have not pocked you 8 balls before you opponent. It unfortunate but it happens. I don't think the refs go against the rules. If the opponent said I take the loss the ref has no options but record the loss. Now if your opponent said let's replace the balls and keep playing, it is his call not the refs.

Good luck in your other matches!


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01-25-2012, 10:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabarbr View Post
Bummer Roy, but in one pocket that's why I always let my opponent move the first ball.
A very good move on your part too!
  
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01-25-2012, 01:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by brandoncook26 View Post
They called Shane on a similar situation last night in the bank final and he lost the game.

It should be the same rules for everyone. I walked in right as that happened. From what I could tell, Appleton only moved two balls. Perhaps since they could replace those balls and keep playing it wasn't loss of game. I did see that the ref called a foul on Darren and he had to spot a ball.

Maybe if Kenny Schuman was here he would have given the game to Miller. I don't know.
Moving two balls and stopping in this case different than cleaning up the table and re-racking or something.

I think the ref made a judgement call here, and not a horrible one, replace the two balls moved and call a foul. Did the other player object?


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