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What makes a Joss or Schon worth the $$$$
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alerotaz
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What makes a Joss or Schon worth the $$$$ - 10-30-2012, 04:45 PM

Sorry I couldnt figure out how to move this thread, but the other Cue Review Thread area is very low traffic. I have not gotten an answer and i would like to know some information.
I have seen different Joss cues, some black script, some gold script and some say Joss West. What is a higher quality line Vs lower level. Same with Schon.. I am wanting to learn before I buy a cue and think i have gotten a fair deal only to find out the reverse.
Even a good link to learn more about them. I have shot with McDermot and Meuccis for so long i think I know enough to not get burned to bad or to loose out on a good deal.
Any and all information would be great.
Thank you
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10-30-2012, 09:04 PM

Joss West is not JOSS. They were made by Bill Stroud (now retired) who worked with Dan Janes at JOSS until about 1972 when he left and started Joss West. His cues are highly regarded, collectible, and great players.

JOSS has been around since 1968. You can read some here: http://bluebookofpoolcuevalues.com/P...=JOSS_CUES_LTD JOSS cues have evolved a great deal and their value runs from a couple hundred bucks to a few thousand generally. Great players, many are collectible as well. Dan Janes is a Hall of Fame cue maker.

Schon cues has been around since 1981. Seemingly a relative new-comer when measured against those that have been around since the 60's like Janes, Stroud, Tad, etc, but a highly regarded maker with roots in cue making that began some ten years prior to Schon. You can read about them here: http://bluebookofpoolcuevalues.com/P...?id=SCHON_CUES

Other great names connected with the above makers would be Runde from Schon and Scruggs from JOSS, among others in various ways.

Stroud cues tended to stay in the higher end custom cues. JOSS has made many catalog cues but has always also been a custom maker. Schon cues has made many catalog cues as well but also makes some limited production cues as well as some one of a kind cues.


Recently we have seen some "tribute" cues put out by Schon, but they had rounded CNC points which seemed to be generally disappointing.

JOSS cues still produces sharp point custom spliced cues. We have recently seen some Brunswick full splice conversions by Dan Janes as well as one-off customs. The CNC points are still available in their various catalog cues.

The values from these makers can vary quite a great deal, so it isn't a simple matter at all. They are all great cues in general. What you will spend depends on exactly what you are after. Vintage? Custom? Rare? Off the shelf?

If you have experience with McDermott and Meucci then I think you would be pleasantly surprised by any of the above cues, some more than others.

You are talking about some of the greatest and most respected makers that go back some 40 years and more in cue making. Incidentally, McDermott and Meucci also fit that description.



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10-31-2012, 03:18 AM

i just hit with a joss west yesterday, nice looking and well sounding cue.

i havent played with one of the newer schon cues, but what is great about joss, you can pick the cheapest model out there (the blacky winner, joss 101) and it plays GREAT.

imho the best cue you can get for about 200 bucks.
  
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10-31-2012, 05:26 PM

Hey Doc-I agree with you on the tribute Schon cues with the rounded points-they would have been much better sharp. But not bad looking cues anyway. You can get a real inlaid sharp point Chinese made cue for $125 ! WTF.
But to address the OP's question. Joss and Schon have decades of making fine quality cues that play well. They hold their value because for a production cue you can buy one sight unseen new or used and as long as the used one is in good condition you can be assured you will get a fine playing cue that if taken care of will last a life time. Kind of like buying a Lexus, there is a track record of quality.


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11-02-2012, 08:25 AM

They have bounced back and forth in populartiy as two of the best playing stainless jointed cues for decades. You don't get to be that popular unless you are doing something right. Another plus with both is a standard joint size allows you to get an extra shaft without having to send your cue back to them. The work on both has always been really clean. You may have noticed the only negatives brought up so far have been the looks of rounded points and we all know that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
  
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11-02-2012, 09:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cueman View Post
They have bounced back and forth in populartiy as two of the best playing stainless jointed cues for decades. You don't get to be that popular unless you are doing something right. Another plus with both is a standard joint size allows you to get an extra shaft without having to send your cue back to them. The work on both has always been really clean. You may have noticed the only negatives brought up so far have been the looks of rounded points and we all know that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
I don't necessarily have an issue with the looks of rounded points per se. I simply don't think it is fitting for a tribute to a cue famous in part for it's sharp points.


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11-02-2012, 05:53 PM

Schon cues from what I seen and own have used high quality woods and other materials that alone is worth the extra $$$. Plus some Schons are made with limited production LTD I think 14 are made Elite 7 and Unique 1.


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11-02-2012, 09:41 PM

schon cues worth the money?
in my opinion schon cues are terribly underpriced

the work is flawless and the play is legendary
more tournaments have been won with schon than any other cuemaker

gina and joss make panagraph points and they are seldom criticized for it

the hit on sharp pointed schons and panagraphed points is identical

there is no scientific evidence that sharp points are superior in any way
and i would put up a large bet that no one on az can tell the difference

bob runde told me that the play is identical,and he still makes sharp points
the old way and i like them as well

jerry franklin told me that schon makes the most cue for the money

i chose schon to make the tributes for me because of their terrific reputation and
play

a tribute is not a knockoff or copy,there are supposed to be similarities and differences

why people like to knock products this good and popular is beyond my understanding
i think they like to pretend to be smart
  
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11-03-2012, 03:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanoc View Post
schon cues worth the money?
in my opinion schon cues are terribly underpriced

the work is flawless and the play is legendary
more tournaments have been won with schon than any other cuemaker

gina and joss make panagraph points and they are seldom criticized for it

the hit on sharp pointed schons and panagraphed points is identical

there is no scientific evidence that sharp points are superior in any way
and i would put up a large bet that no one on az can tell the difference

bob runde told me that the play is identical,and he still makes sharp points
the old way and i like them as well

jerry franklin told me that schon makes the most cue for the money

i chose schon to make the tributes for me because of their terrific reputation and
play

a tribute is not a knockoff or copy,there are supposed to be similarities and differences

why people like to knock products this good and popular is beyond my understanding
i think they like to pretend to be smart

People have valid opinions to express, why you might want yours to sound superior in any way is beyond me. The more you try to make it sound superior the more inferior it actually really is.

Nobody here said that the type of points had anything to do with how the cue plays. Why comment about it? It misses the point completely.

JOSS makes points with a pantograph?

Everybody here was making glowing comments about all of these makers, including Schon, not outrageous statements, and certainly not knocking anything. You just don't seem to like it that anybody feels that CNC points might not portray the best in a tribute you commissioned.

Cues don't win tournaments, players do. Making outrageous (and clearly most likely untrue) statements about what cue has won more tournaments is really pointless.

Numerous people have expressed the feeling that the tributes would have been better with sharp points. You don't like that. That's clear. I understand. It is a matter of personal taste. That you seem to wish to make your opinion on personal taste superior in any way is offensive.


The OP wanted to know what makes JOSS or Schon worth the money. Since you want to make it some kind of a pissing match, Schon cues cost more than JOSS. JOSS is clearly the superior value. Yes, Schon is a legendary name...and about half the legendary status of JOSS. But what's the point of such things? Really?

Both are worth the money for anybody that buys one and likes it. They are well made cues.




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11-03-2012, 03:10 AM

well stated... you cant go wrong with any of these cues... its just matter of taste, budget and personal feeling.
  
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Estetics, Quality, Feel, Playability
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Cool Estetics, Quality, Feel, Playability - 11-03-2012, 03:22 AM

Esthetics, Quality, Feel, Playability its all subjective. What the buyer is willing to pay and what the seller is willing to sell for.


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11-10-2012, 10:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopdoc View Post
People have valid opinions to express, why you might want yours to sound superior in any way is beyond me. The more you try to make it sound superior the more inferior it actually really is.

Nobody here said that the type of points had anything to do with how the cue plays. Why comment about it? It misses the point completely.

JOSS makes points with a pantograph?

Everybody here was making glowing comments about all of these makers, including Schon, not outrageous statements, and certainly not knocking anything. You just don't seem to like it that anybody feels that CNC points might not portray the best in a tribute you commissioned.

Cues don't win tournaments, players do. Making outrageous (and clearly most likely untrue) statements about what cue has won more tournaments is really pointless.

Numerous people have expressed the feeling that the tributes would have been better with sharp points. You don't like that. That's clear. I understand. It is a matter of personal taste. That you seem to wish to make your opinion on personal taste superior in any way is offensive.


The OP wanted to know what makes JOSS or Schon worth the money. Since you want to make it some kind of a pissing match, Schon cues cost more than JOSS. JOSS is clearly the superior value. Yes, Schon is a legendary name...and about half the legendary status of JOSS. But what's the point of such things? Really?

Both are worth the money for anybody that buys one and likes it. They are well made cues.




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Very well put
  
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11-12-2012, 11:24 AM

The proof is in the resale! Buy a Dan Janes Joss and you won't lose much at all.. Schon's are great but the $1000 ltd stuff? Nobody will give half that two years down the road..

Last edited by porper-sig; 11-12-2012 at 11:26 AM.
  
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09-10-2013, 11:09 AM

If what you are saying is true, then that means that Schon cues do not hold their value nearly as well as Joss cues do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by porper-sig View Post
The proof is in the resale! Buy a Dan Janes Joss and you won't lose much at all.. Schon's are great but the $1000 ltd stuff? Nobody will give half that two years down the road..
  
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09-10-2013, 12:49 PM

I've owned 3 schon cues they hit pretty good for me and good hit control on the cue ball. I feel that schon hit the cue ball good with no pressure of hitting it hit or easy, the cue ball will go where I want it at a mid way hit, not hard and the draw or follow go smooth. I love schons but I am getting to point I am done spending money on schon cause they are great cue but some of the cue design on prices is crazy.

Prices example: I think schon model from STL1-STL7, those could be in the 250-350 price range cause all it is sneaky pete design and not so fancy. STL8-STL20 is a fancy cue and I can understand high prices on those models but again STL1-STL7 models could be in a 250-350 price range.

I am now looking at new cue now and thinking about getting a Joss since their cue is simple and little somewhat fancy but the price on them from 250-400 is pretty good to me. I shot with a Joss before and it hit almost same as a schon but little more pressure into not hard but little more hard after midway hittness. But it not about the cue it about how the person get the feel for it and practice until they get it down.
  
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