CTE Journey

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just asked a simple question. Do you have an answer?

What's wrong with zeroing in on the correct shot by moving the head left and right a tiny amount, if that helps him see the shot picture that his subconscious tells him is correct?

In CTE you are performing a much more elaborate process of seeing two lines at the same time and then subconsciously adjusting from there. Subconscious means you don't realize you are doing it, which is what you indicated in one of your prior posts. You said you don't make subconscious adjustments. Let's put a camera on you and we'll see. You'll either get on the correct shot line while getting down on the shot, or you'll get down on the shot as dictated by Stan's method and then swoop your stroke subconsciously as you deliver the cue. We've seen this in other CTE users but we can't know which way you are adjusting.

It doesn't really matter. If you play great doing "something" then who cares? Just don't go around lecturing everybody with the wrong explanations. It gives unrealistic hopes to new players who don't know any better and also causes a lot of arguments.
 

cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What's wrong with zeroing in on the correct shot by moving the head left and right a tiny amount, if that helps him see the shot picture that his subconscious tells him is correct?

In CTE you are performing a much more elaborate process of seeing two lines at the same time and then subconsciously adjusting from there. Subconscious means you don't realize you are doing it, which is what you indicated in one of your prior posts. You said you don't make subconscious adjustments. Let's put a camera on you and we'll see. You'll either get on the correct shot line while getting down on the shot, or you'll get down on the shot as dictated by Stan's method and then swoop your stroke subconsciously as you deliver the cue. We've seen this in other CTE users but we can't know which way you are adjusting.

It doesn't really matter. If you play great doing "something" then who cares? Just don't go around lecturing everybody with the wrong explanations. It gives unrealistic hopes to new players who don't know any better and also causes a lot of arguments.

Well i just asked a simple question to PJ. Never said anything was wrong with it, but since you answered yes, it's very wrong to move your head around after being down on the shot. Aiming is done from above and dictates proper alignment.
" subconsciousness adjustment" you keep going back to that. Is that all you have? Because that's a joke. I DO NOT make them as they are not necessary with CTE. Where did i ever indicate that in a previous post. Bet you right now that you will post a mis representation of my words.
 

Vorpal Cue

Just galumping back
Silver Member
Here's something I posted a few days ago in a different thread. You must have missed it somehow, even though it had cte in the title. Go figure. :grin-devilish:

Snip:

When I first started I concentrated on hitting CCB on the line I got after my pivot. I would only extend the line a few diamonds down table. Because of my random alignment (unsquare) my line would seem to hit the OB in the wrong place sometimes. On those shots my sneaky subconscious would kick in on the final stroke, my stroke would be jerky and off line, and I'd butcher the shot. I found by shorting my sight picture and not looking at the OB my success rate increased. After I got comfortable with the 15 perception I moved on to the 30.

It was only after I got my stroke and body position problems solved that I was comfortable looking at the OB for all types of visuals. I still use 'blind shots' as part of my practice routine. I consider my technique flawed if I can't hit a 2 diamond shot with 2 diamonds separation without peeking at the OB, using only the line after the pivot.

My subconscious was HINDERING my advancement. When I make my 'blind' shots, where's the adjustment? You non user 'experts' shouldn't go around lecturing everybody with the wrong explanations
 

cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What's wrong with zeroing in on the correct shot by moving the head left and right a tiny amount, if that helps him see the shot picture that his subconscious tells him is correct?

In CTE you are performing a much more elaborate process of seeing two lines at the same time and then subconsciously adjusting from there. Subconscious means you don't realize you are doing it, which is what you indicated in one of your prior posts. You said you don't make subconscious adjustments. Let's put a camera on you and we'll see. You'll either get on the correct shot line while getting down on the shot, or you'll get down on the shot as dictated by Stan's method and then swoop your stroke subconsciously as you deliver the cue. We've seen this in other CTE users but we can't know which way you are adjusting.

It doesn't really matter. If you play great doing "something" then who cares? Just don't go around lecturing everybody with the wrong explanations. It gives unrealistic hopes to new players who don't know any better and also causes a lot of arguments.

I got a better experiment Mr straight stroke Dan. You go down to center CB then move your head around to find the proper aimpoint and lets see how straight your stroke remains.

PS If you are moving your head around to find the exact aimpoint, then why is a sub conscience adjustment needed?
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well i just asked a simple question to PJ. Never said anything was wrong with it, but since you answered yes, it's very wrong to move your head around after being down on the shot. Aiming is done from above and dictates proper alignment.
" subconsciousness adjustment" you keep going back to that. Is that all you have? Because that's a joke. I DO NOT make them as they are not necessary with CTE. Where did i ever indicate that in a previous post. Bet you right now that you will post a mis representation of my words.

What I meant is that you said you do not make subconscious adjustments while I believe that such adjustments are necessary in order for Pro1 to work.

We both know that you can get down on a shot and make minor tweaks without redoing your entire PSR. PJ said he might move his head left and right to either side of what looks "correct." These movements might be extremely small as it doesn't take much of a change in eye position to make the alignment look very different.

But then we all know you guys only bring up PJ's lizard comment from years ago to ridicule him, and for no other reason.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Sharing my development using CTE:

First: A copy of a previous post that involves a frustration point:

09-25-2018, 05:43 AM
The hardest thing about CTE for me is not aligning the visuals (e.g. CTE/ETA, etc.), nor an accurate visual sweep. I miss more shots because I have chosen the WRONG visual and/or sweep when the shot is close to the transition between 15->30 or 30->45. I know what a visual sweep direction does ... thick or thins the shot. Frustrating.

Still .... I won my Monday night match 11-3.

to the guys who know who you are
what have you contributed to the ops cte journey??
sacman
wish you continuing success
:)
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here's something I posted a few days ago in a different thread. You must have missed it somehow, even though it had cte in the title. Go figure. :grin-devilish:

The interesting thing I took away from that discussion is that after two DVD's and years of youtube videos CTE users don't seem too sure what to look at after they pivot to take the shot. Seems like everyone does it differently. Seems odd to me but then I guess I don't understand.

My subconscious was HINDERING my advancement. When I make my 'blind' shots, where's the adjustment? You non user 'experts' shouldn't go around lecturing everybody with the wrong explanations

I'm beginning to think you don't really understand specifically what the "argument" is about. You can pocket a ball 2 diamonds away and 2 diamonds from the pocket blind? I'd be embarrassed if I couldn't do that opposite handed behind the back blind. Party tricks do not prove much.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I didn't know I was still in sacman's thread. Repeat to sacman: I'm perfectly happy to delete all of my comments in this thread if you'd prefer. Do you think the rest of the guys cluttering up your thread will do the same?
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The interesting thing I took away from that discussion is that after two DVD's and years of youtube videos CTE users don't seem too sure what to look at after they pivot to take the shot. Seems like everyone does it differently. Seems odd to me but then I guess I don't understand.



I'm beginning to think you don't really understand specifically what the "argument" is about. You can pocket a ball 2 diamonds away and 2 diamonds from the pocket blind? I'd be embarrassed if I couldn't do that opposite handed behind the back blind. Party tricks do not prove much.

to the guys who know who you are
what have you contributed to the ops cte journey??
sacman
wish you continuing success
:)
to the guys who know who you are what have you contributed to the ops cte journey???
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
to the guys who know who you are what have you contributed to the ops cte journey???

My initial contribution in this particular thread was to show him that what he was doing is not exactly what Stan was teaching. I thought it was constructive and by his reply he seemed to consider that information and make an informed reply.

Your only contribution was to give a thumbs up. I said what I thought was helpful and I'm done with it. If you guys would stop addressing my posts I would stop responding. Why don't we all delete the unhelpful chatter?
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
PJ said he might move his head left and right to either side of what looks "correct."

He did not say he "MIGHT" move his head left and right to either side.

These movements might be extremely small as it doesn't take much of a change in eye position to make the alignment look very different.

He also didn't say anything about eye position only.

But then we all know you guys only bring up PJ's lizard comment from years ago to ridicule him, and for no other reason.

You and PJ don't make things up and lie your asses off to skew what a person says to try making them look like fools? Give me a break!

You did it right here in this thread with cookieman and do it ALL the time. For no other reason to put them/us down and belittle CTE posters.

Not one word of PJ's post on RSB was altered. He described it and it was copy and pasted from RSB archives. If there was any humiliation it was because Pat Johnson did it to himself!

REFRESH YOUR MEMORY. HE SAID IT AND IT'S IN THE RSB ARCHIVES FOREVER.

We've talked about this a few times. I prefer to sight down the
contact point-to-contact point line, but that puts my head in
different positions over the stick depending on the shot and can be
physically difficult for cue ball contact points "outside" the stick,
so I adjust it for comfort and consistency. I also like to move my
head back and forth to sight down more than one of the available
lines, including cue ball path, just for cross reference (I might look
a little like a lizard doing this). I like to know that my stick is
pointing where I want it to, but "sight down the stick" doesn't work
by itself for me.

Pat Johnson
Chicago


I also see the thread got torched/vaporized from some behind the scenes crying and whining. Yet, HIS THREAD MOCKING CTE in a BACKHAND WAY IS HILARIOUS AND ALLOWED TO STAND. Give me a break!!

 
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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You and PJ don't make things up and lie your asses off to skew what a person says to try making them look like fools? Give me a break!

You did it right here in this thread with cookieman and do it ALL the time. For no other reason to put them/us down and belittle CTE posters.

Not one word of PJ's post on RSB was altered. He described it and it was copy and pasted from RSB archives. If there was any humiliation it was because Pat Johnson did it to himself!

REFRESH YOUR MEMORY. HE SAID IT AND IT'S IN THE RSB ARCHIVES FOREVER.

We've talked about this a few times. I prefer to sight down the
contact point-to-contact point line, but that puts my head in
different positions over the stick depending on the shot and can be
physically difficult for cue ball contact points "outside" the stick,
so I adjust it for comfort and consistency. I also like to move my
head back and forth to sight down more than one of the available
lines, including cue ball path, just for cross reference (I might look
a little like a lizard doing this). I like to know that my stick is
pointing where I want it to, but "sight down the stick" doesn't work
by itself for me.

Pat Johnson
Chicago

Whatever you say.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Most likely the mods aren't aware of it yet.

It's a two way street except you're reporting every single post to try to get something to stick. And it does.

Others report your posts and PJ's and they go unanswered or nothing done.

Have to wonder why since they're always attacking CTE and users. It's like, what gives?
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Truest thing you've said lately. I'm surprised the mods ignore your constant flame fanning.

pj
chgo

Lets not overlook your direct posts regarding everything CTE related and the backhand mocking thread in here, Cut rate aiming CRA. Real funny.

You were given a lifetime ban and multiple bans because of your wise cracking and attacks.

I don't know how you came back.
 
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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's a two way street except you're reporting every single post to try to get something to stick. And it does.

Others report your posts and PJ's and they go unanswered or nothing done.

Have to wonder why since they're always attacking CTE and users. It's like, what gives?

I can explain it to you but I'm pretty sure it will fall on deaf ears, based on past experience. You've spent the last day or two calling others all kinds of names, mocking and so on... basically acting like a juvenile. For the most part, I no longer respond in kind and therefore I don't make an ass of myself.

Mike posted a sticky not to "bash" CTE. Bashing, I believe, is another word for the flame war that starts when people start disagreeing about CTE. So I don't do that anymore. That doesn't mean I can't still make reasonable comments about CTE every once in awhile. I just don't make a habit of it.

Here's an example of discussing CTE without bashing ('cause I refuse to engage in an ensuing flame war):

The last couple of threads started by Stan involve a lot of revisionist history (that I won't get into) and erroneous comments such as, "Well so and so is using CTE and he's on the Mosconi Cup, so that proves that CTE works."

Nobody ever said a player cannot get good by using CTE as an aiming procedure. The argument from the "naysayers" and "deniers" is that CTE cannot work by the means that Stan claims it does. When the real reason that a player improves by using CTE is understood, the magical nature of CTE dissipates. This is my opinion, which is based on actual evidence, and I only repeat it here because so many have been mischaracterizing what the issue is.

You have a different opinion. IMO you are wrong, but I'm not going to beat you over the head with it. I don't lay awake at night because Spider disagrees with me.

So you can do with that what you will. Consider that I might be on to something, dismiss it as BS, or report me.

Enjoy your weekend, Spider Dave.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
You've spent the last day or two calling others all kinds of names, mocking and so on... basically acting like a juvenile

That's your opinion and wild claim to build a bigger chasm and keep this all going. What I did is what you do to have the back of PJ, Lou, and other naysayers. Mix it up, simple as that. We have different styles. They were coming at Stan with all barrels loaded and heavy harsh artillery. I responded in like kind..

For the most part, I no longer respond in kind and therefore I don't make an ass of myself.

That's a matter of opinion. There are different ways to make an ass of yourself beside responding in like kind. How about completely giving erroneous information about the process of CTE? How about completely misquoting another post to create your own version that's not what was said? How about just making things up out of thin air to take the conversation into a different area?

Mike posted a sticky not to "bash" CTE. Bashing, I believe, is another word for the flame war that starts when people start disagreeing about CTE. So I don't do that anymore.

You're kidding right?

That doesn't mean I can't still make reasonable comments about CTE every once in awhile. I just don't make a habit of it.

They may be reasonable to you but they're incorrect and always have been. We can't get it through your skull and then the battles start. If you don't want to "bash" CTE, learn it first by the way it's taught. Your best action would be to stay out completely. Start a STROKE thread.

Here's an example of discussing CTE without bashing ('cause I refuse to engage in an ensuing flame war):

The last couple of threads started by Stan involve a lot of revisionist history (that I won't get into) and erroneous comments such as, "Well so and so is using CTE and he's on the Mosconi Cup, so that proves that CTE works."

No, what it proves is you guys saying CTE possibly CANNOT WORK because of the math (whatever that is) or Stan teaches it incorrectly.

Nobody ever said a player cannot get good by using CTE as an aiming procedure.

I'd say that's a true statement. What has been said is CTE is a flawed system and can't possibly work at all as stated and taught.

The argument from the "naysayers" and "deniers" is that CTE cannot work by the means that Stan claims it does.

That's what I just said. Then why do we become better players by doing it as Stan teaches? How did Tyler Styer get good enough to be using it for a few years and get picked for the Mosconi Cup the way Stan says and teaches it? Tyler didn't reinvent the wheel to get it to work. Cookie didn't reinvent the wheel to get it to work. Nor did many others.

When the real reason that a player improves by using CTE is understood, the magical nature of CTE dissipates. This is my opinion, which is based on actual evidence,

What evidence? Your erroneous evidence? PJ's bogus evidence? Your opinion is your opinion but that doesn't mean it's right. Our opinion as users for years is you're so far off the mark it's absurd. And you keep doing it over and over and over. STOP IT ALREADY!!

and I only repeat it here because so many have been mischaracterizing what the issue is.

And you'll keep repeating it for another 20 years if you live that long and it'll more than likely be still off base.

You have a different opinion. IMO you are wrong, but I'm not going to beat you over the head with it. I don't lay awake at night because Spider disagrees with me.

Actually I do think you lay awake at night fuming over what you think is right and how you'll misrepresent it in different ways. Either that or how you'll try to concoct some sort of a posting trap to get me banned by reporting every word and sentence that I post until something sticks. I know your game, Dan,

So you can do with that what you will. Consider that I might be on to something, dismiss it as BS, or report me.

I have and will continue as long as you keep doing your habitually incorrect and provoking threads/posts.

Enjoy your weekend, Spider Dave.

Thanks, you too.
 
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sacman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My usual Monday night 8-ball match came and I got my butt handed to me on a platter - losing 2-6. It was an off-night for me as I struggled on long-distance shots trying to decide ... should that be a 15-inside or a 45-outside (30 is not used for long-distance shots)?

A few days before I asked my son to video tape my stroke motion. It had recently dawned on me why I have struggled with little follow-through and why I've tended to poke & jab instead of accelerate smoothly through the cue ball. For years I had been using Mosconi's grip position where the grip hand is nearly one-hand's distance behind the balance point of the cue and the bridge length is determined by the grip (because grip is choked up). And so .... I made the change, got another video of my stroke, and liked what I saw! My typical bridge length is closer to 8". The stroke seems much straighter with the true pendulum motion - upper arm remaining still.

Monday night proved that the stroke change was the right move. But how could that be when I lost the match? On most straight-ins - the ball went straight with a full-ball hit. Some were long distance - very hard shots yet - they went in through center pocket. But those cut shots? They revealed the effect of the stroke change. The longer bridge changed my pivot drastically. I use Pro-One and - although the bridge length shouldn't make a difference - in this case it did because I was focusing on arriving at the shot with my feet movement and not my eye movement. Stan said, "the eyes lead, the body follows". I was doing that backward without realizing it. My feet were leading me. So it is back to the practice table to engrain the practice of moving to the shot line as determined by the alignment of the fulcrum point* of the bridge hand with the pre-pivot line during the sweep into full-stance - using my eyes, THEN my feet. The change in stroke took so much of my attention that I struggled on obtaining the correct visuals (ETA/B/C). I also set a record for number of scratches because of being hyperfocused on the stroke change.

Soon I will be back to my usual winning status. But what a painful lesson. Pool is such a humbling activity. Change one thing and watch out!



*When I look at the fixed cue ball I identify what I call 'the fulcrum line'. It is that line that is a half-tip from center - with a fixed cue ball - extending straight outward to which my bridge hand is placed as I go into full stance. There would be a fulcrum line on both sides of center cue ball depending on if the sweep is a left or right version.


Disclaimer: the above is an account of my own personal journey with CTE. It is not intended for teaching purposes. The coming book and Truth Series from Stan Shuffett will over-ride any information I have shared deemed to be inaccurate.
 
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