League: Play to keep rating low or go all out every game?

azbluemach1 · Mar 30, 2011

Yea, its probably a Wahambulance thread, but whatever.

My brief history: My dad had me hanging out in bars/pool halls watching him gamble from the time I was about 13. By the time I was 17 I had mostly seen it all. Never saw my dad "hustle" anyone - he brought 110% of whatever he had all the time. I gambled quite a bit through highschool and college, never for really high stakes but it was usally everything I had plus what I knew I could borrow. I hustled one guy one time (2 bros and a friend scam), and we ended up giving the money back to the guy the next day. Laying down is not in my nature.

I play in a TAP league with some buddies who I like to hang out with and drink some cold ones. League seems to be DESIGNED to encourage sand-bagging, which is cool, but it is super frustrating come tournament time when I am spotting someone a few games on the wire (or even one), and I get to sit in my chair while they run rack after rack, playing several balls above their rating. And this is just in locals, so I can only imagine how bad it is in vegas (which is the goal, ldo).

The poker player in me who is always looking for the most +ev situation says ez game, make 2 balls, play an uncalled safe every turn.

The purist in me says sandbaggers should be taken outside and taught a lesson, and is fairly irked that I am even posting this.

What say ye, AZB? Play the optimal strategy to stay ranked as low as possible, or play all out every game, and force yourself to play ghost perfect in every tournament match, plus make it harder for the captain to field a team with the handicap restrictions?

abie10 · Mar 30, 2011

The fact that you are even considering this, says a lot about you

Of course you go all out...why would you EVER play any other way?

Perk · Mar 30, 2011

I wouldnt hold back, but I dont play league.

If you tend to fish to much, you will have a hard time releasing the hook when needed and it will impact your overall improvement to your game.

~Perk

nateobot · Mar 30, 2011

Play to win every time I am playing.

azbluemach1 · Mar 30, 2011

abie10 said:
The fact that you are even considering this, says a lot about you

Of course you go all out...why would you EVER play any other way?

I know, but I already said that in my post - which apparently you didn't read.

I can't win giving up weight to better players than me come tournament time. There are a ton of sandbaggers - league almost DEMANDS sandbagging. The way it is setup seems to be more a test of your ability to manage your rating instead of your pool ability.

MOJOE · Mar 30, 2011

I give it 100% every time I step up. Screw the sandbagging wussies.

trustyrusty · Mar 30, 2011

There are two answers to your question....if you want to win when it matters - CHEAT! However, if you have some integrity, and more character than the players who do sandbag, DON'T CHEAT, and lose. I ALWAYS choose to play to the best of my ability, and don't mind at all if that makes me the sucker in the eyes of those who don't....

justadub · Mar 30, 2011

A lot of folks believe that sandbagging is so rampant, and I feel that is that folks just are looking for an excuse when they get beat.

Do people cheat, sure. As many as people would have you believe.... I just don't think so.

At least I hope not.

*** Answer to the question, yes I go all out every time. But I suck, so you might think I'm sandbagging anyway!

Scott Lee · Mar 30, 2011

azbluemach1...Sandbagging in the TAP league...say it ain't so! LMAO Like was mentioned by another poster, the fact that you consider cheating "cool" says a lot about you as a person. Even worse is the "everybody does it, so it's ok" thought process.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

azbluemach1 said:
I play in a TAP league with some buddies who I like to hang out with and drink some cold ones. League seems to be DESIGNED to encourage sand-bagging, which is cool, but it is super frustrating come tournament time when I am spotting someone a few games on the wire (or even one), and I get to sit in my chair while they run rack after rack, playing several balls above their rating. And this is just in locals, so I can only imagine how bad it is in vegas (which is the goal, ldo).

mantis99 · Mar 30, 2011

abie10 said:
The fact that you are even considering this, says a lot about you

Of course you go all out...why would you EVER play any other way?

Agree 100%. However, it obviously happens frequently in league play, and those that sandbag probably won't admit it here. Why anyone would even play competitively at all and do his is beyond me. Its sad that we even need a thread like this.

chevybob20 · Mar 30, 2011

Your game won't improve as fast while sandbagging. Learn how to beat opponents badly. Would you rather be known as the guy that can't be beat because you sandbag or the guy that can't be beat because you're a Super 7 monster?

azbluemach1 · Mar 30, 2011

Scott Lee said:
azbluemach1...Sandbagging in the TAP league...say it ain't so! LMAO Like was mentioned by another poster, the fact that you consider cheating "cool" says a lot about you as a person. Even worse is the "everybody does it, so it's ok" thought process.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

The "Cool" comment was tounge in cheek, obviously.

Me playing in tap league would be EXACTLY like me playing you as a B player and giving you 3 on the wire in a race to 5.

Would you give that spot if you were me? Would you take 3 on the wire from a player 3 balls worse than you?

If not, the ONLY option is to be able to break and run a 6 back of 8ball on a bar table any time you want too. Im *close* but not quite there yet.

Can anyone else tell me how to be competitive when the system is so ripe to be manipulated that 1/2 the players there cant resist it?

justadub · Mar 30, 2011

azbluemach1 said:
The "Cool" comment was tounge in cheek, obviously.

Me playing in tap league would be EXACTLY like me playing you as a B player and giving you 3 on the wire in a race to 5.

Would you give that spot if you were me? Would you take 3 on the wire from a player 3 balls worse than you?

If not, the ONLY option is to be able to break and run a 6 back of 8ball on a bar table any time you want too. Im *close* but not quite there yet.

Can anyone else tell me how to be competitive when the system is so ripe to be manipulated that 1/2 the players there cant resist it?

Half? Really? Half the players involved are actively cheating?

If so, it's time to find another league.

I think you're overstating it, a bit. I could be wrong, I often am. Just ask my wife. But as the esteemed prophet Charles Barkley says on tv lately... "I may be wrong, but I doubt it."

(Just wanted to use that line. Goofy commercial, but I love Charles-speak. It's turrible.)

DelaWho??? · Mar 31, 2011

azbluemach1 said:
I know, but I already said that in my post - which apparently you didn't read.

I can't win giving up weight to better players than me come tournament time. There are a ton of sandbaggers - league almost DEMANDS sandbagging. The way it is setup seems to be more a test of your ability to manage your rating instead of your pool ability.

Maybe you shouldn't be trying to run out on the "better" player unless the run is there and it is a high percentage that you can manage that run and get out. Nothing is worse in 8 ball than failing to run and leaving your opponent without any obsticles on the table. There is nothing "sandbagging" about playing a defense game if that's what the table calls for.

Sometimes the better player isn't the most skilled at the table, he's the smartest at the table.

I try to give everyone my best game every time. That game might be strong defense or run out offense depending on the situation. There is a prevailing notion in 8 ball and league especially that you MUST attempt to run out every turn to the table. I have heard from many older players that in the old days playing defense could get your ass kicked in the parking lot. It didn't stop the good players from doing it, they just got better at hiding it. The deliberately missed shot is accompanied by some play acting so as not to reveal that it was deliberate. This is what a lot of people call sandbagging.

If you are going to play defense in league or tourney own it, be proud of it. It takes quite a bit of skill to lay down a lock up safety. I love playing guys who want to run every turn at the table. Sooner or later they are going to F it up. That's where I come in with no obstructions on the table to run out.

DallasHopps · Mar 31, 2011

I play in an APA league, and I play to the best of my ability every time I go to the table. A lot of things factor in during league play, though, that make me shoot below my shaky skill level. Things like the little troll girl playing a Ke$ha marathon on the too-loud jukebox, the obnoxious fat guy I'm playing who smells like vinegar, or the fact that I'm playing someone who has two other losing teams on different nights solely to keep their ringer team's handicaps low... it happens, and it irritates me, but I play hard because when I win in spite of all of these obstacles it's like a subliminal eff you to the other guy.

Sam at TAP · Mar 31, 2011

Can anyone else tell me how to be competitive when the system is so ripe to be manipulated that 1/2 the players there cant resist it?

Justadub.....1/2?...You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Post something that is worth reading and closer to the truth. Please! If what you say is true we wouldn't be growing as fast as we are. Come on man....Please don't insult AZB readers intelligence because it only shows the lack of yours.

justadub · Mar 31, 2011

Sam at TAP said:
Can anyone else tell me how to be competitive when the system is so ripe to be manipulated that 1/2 the players there cant resist it?

Justadub.....1/2?...You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Post something that is worth reading and closer to the truth. Please! If what you say is true we wouldn't be growing as fast as we are. Come on man....Please don't insult AZB readers intelligence because it only shows the lack of yours.

uhhh...... If you re-read the thread and my posts, I'm pointing out that same thing. I was replying to the OP, who believes half his league is sandbagging.

I don't believe it.

Do you?

I'll stroll along now so I don't insult anyone elses intelligence.

Since mine is obviously lacking.

ctyhntr · Mar 31, 2011

I fully agree. So sad that there are people lost their moral compass and don't care about the difference between doing whats right versus wrong.

abie10 said:
The fact that you are even considering this, says a lot about you

Of course you go all out...why would you EVER play any other way?

LeagueGuy · Mar 31, 2011

Sam at TAP said:
Can anyone else tell me how to be competitive when the system is so ripe to be manipulated that 1/2 the players there cant resist it?

Justadub.....1/2?...You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Post something that is worth reading and closer to the truth. Please! If what you say is true we wouldn't be growing as fast as we are. Come on man....Please don't insult AZB readers intelligence because it only shows the lack of yours.

I believe that you owe Justadub an apology. He is actually defending leagues saying that he doesn't think sandbagging is as rampant as everyone thinks it is, and you go off on HIM.

As I said, I belive you owe Justadub an apology.

Leagueguy

CocoboloCowboy · Mar 31, 2011

If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score?
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League: Play to keep rating low or go all out every game?

LOL pool leagues. How do you do?

Play all out every game.

Manage your rating by sandbagging at any and all oppertunities

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