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dquarasr
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03-05-2020, 01:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
I think the single largest factor in choosing a cue (and especially a shaft) is how much you use side spin and how you use side spin. The difference between cues is huge for this.
That's good input. Thanks.
  
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03-05-2020, 01:10 PM

I remember as a kid that the right "tennies" made you run faster, jump higher, of course,
that's what we thought.....
While I'd never expect to win with a simple broom stick or ax handle, ,what I've found
over the years is that I like higher quality equipment, or something singular, custom.
Something that's mine and fitted to me, but whether it was $2 or $2000 really never
mattered, it's all in how good I played with it. Better, or higher quality stuff is nice to
have. I think it shows a certain respect for the game, for your craft (if you will), and many
times here on this website you'll see "it's not the arrow, it's the Indian" there's a lot of
truth in that. You have to find what you're comfortable with, what fits you best
  
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deanoc
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03-05-2020, 01:13 PM

i can not play without a cue i like
but i have like several low price cues,including the sneaky petes i just sols

my advice is get a decent cuew and play pool
  
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two things miles apart
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two things miles apart - 03-05-2020, 01:27 PM

For all practical purposes that car is going to handle the same with or without a supercharger. However, better shocks will aid handling. Shock absorbers, brake pads, buy as soon as possible. A flashy paint job or skin, not so big of a rush.

Now you have decided you probably need to upgrade your cue. Are you going to buy a cue with a better shaft, or the best shaft you can find? That better shaft will take you a little further, then another little better shaft can take you a little further. I'm pretty sure you could make two or three steps between what you have now and the best shafts. Perhaps you should ask around for the worst performing shaft that claims to be low deflection?

Baby steps or get an excellent performing cue so it places zero avoidable restrictions on your progress?

The best shaft you can buy will make more balls for everyone from the bar room banger to the best in the world. When your skills are there it will make it easier to play shape too.

The best low deflection shaft will probably deflect one-fourth as much as a standard maple shaft of the same diameter. That means a top player can juice the ball and be far more sure of making a difficult shot. However, it also means that the banger that accidentally puts a quarter or half tip of sidespin on a ball is only punished 1/4 as much. Many shots that miss with a standard shaft go with the low deflection shaft.

Back to the car analogy for a moment: I have heard of putting governers on school cars to slow them down, I have heard of changing rear gears to slow them down, I have never heard of reducing the handling ability to slow them down. Do you want the best handling cue you can lay hands on or one just a little better than you have now? They are all out there, the choice is yours.

Hu



Quote:
Originally Posted by dquarasr View Post
Thanks, Hu. Not to belabor the car analogy too much, I will disagree on your assertion that I gave bad advice to my students. I'm not talking about someone driving a shitbox. I'm talking, for instance, a guy with a brand new Mustang GT, getting passed by Miatas, then musing whether he needs to add a supercharger or install better shocks. My advice (and from other highly seasoned instructors) was to get as good as the car first. When braking and cornering at 6/10ths, adding a supercharger might lower lap times, but a better approach is to first obtain the driving skills, which can be applied to ANY car the driver gets into.

If a CB center hit easy shot is regularly being missed with a stroke that is as straight as the letter "S", a low deflection cue won't fix the stroke and won't help in the long run.

So I'm not asking about a really crappy cue, and whether to get a decent one. I'm asking when to go from a "decent" cue to a more exotic one, such as upgrading from a decent maple shaft to CF. An implied question is how much $$ (talking new, not used) is the right price point for a better functioning cue, excluding cosmetic embellishments. What I think I'm hearing is that it might be time for me to consider a better cue. The search begins.
  
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dquarasr
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03-05-2020, 01:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootingArts View Post
For all practical purposes that car is going to handle the same with or without a supercharger. However, better shocks will aid handling. Shock absorbers, brake pads, buy as soon as possible. A flashy paint job or skin, not so big of a rush.

Now you have decided you probably need to upgrade your cue. Are you going to buy a cue with a better shaft, or the best shaft you can find? That better shaft will take you a little further, then another little better shaft can take you a little further. I'm pretty sure you could make two or three steps between what you have now and the best shafts. Perhaps you should ask around for the worst performing shaft that claims to be low deflection?

Baby steps or get an excellent performing cue so it places zero avoidable restrictions on your progress?

The best shaft you can buy will make more balls for everyone from the bar room banger to the best in the world. When your skills are there it will make it easier to play shape too.

The best low deflection shaft will probably deflect one-fourth as much as a standard maple shaft of the same diameter. That means a top player can juice the ball and be far more sure of making a difficult shot. However, it also means that the banger that accidentally puts a quarter or half tip of sidespin on a ball is only punished 1/4 as much. Many shots that miss with a standard shaft go with the low deflection shaft.

Back to the car analogy for a moment: I have heard of putting governers on school cars to slow them down, I have heard of changing rear gears to slow them down, I have never heard of reducing the handling ability to slow them down. Do you want the best handling cue you can lay hands on or one just a little better than you have now? They are all out there, the choice is yours.

Hu
This is the best response so far, no disrespect to all others who have responded.

Time to do some research and see how serious I want to be on this hobby.
  
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  (#21)
MitchAlsup
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03-05-2020, 02:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dquarasr View Post
I used to do road course race car tracking. I have instructed at over 120 track days. Constantly I encountered students (and others) whose primary focus was on the car: what mods should I make? Should I get (these brake pads) (these shocks) (this exhaust) (these sway bars)? My usual answer was "make the nut that holds the steering wheel as good as the car, then start improving the car."
I am also a HPDE driving instructor. We have a saying--do you know the fastest way to slow a driver down? Yes, add 100 HP to his car.

Quote:
Similar to those questions, but not being particularly experienced with a wide variety of cue sticks, my question: When (or ever?) should someone interested in improving his or her game, invest in a "good" cue? How do we know when our equipment is holding us back?
The corollary to the HPDE above is::
If you cannot run 3 racks with a $60 cue, with which you have had plenty of practice time, higher dollar cures will not improve your game.
  
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  (#22)
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03-05-2020, 02:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootingArts View Post
You gave bad advice about the cars. There is absolutely no advantage to fighting a shltbox while you are trying to learn to drive. I started off dirt tracking in a half decent late model. In a few months I was competitive with anyone. A few years later my car wasn't finished for the start of the season and I was restless. Jumped into a lower class car when the owner offered it to me. The thing flexed where it shouldn't, the shocks were wrong and binding or locking up, worst of all when the poorly handling car got you in trouble there wasn't enough horsepower to get you back out. I would have struggled for several years had I started driving in a car like that.

I have competed at many things. I have never found it an advantage to start with crappy equipment in any pursuit. The time to buy first class equipment is as soon as you decide you are serious and have the money.

A cue doesn't need a bunch of inlays and ring work. It does need to have a well made butt and a carbon fiber shaft. You are going to have to learn how a low deflection shaft handles, might as start learning from day one!

Since we are using car analogies, an old saying is "if it don't go chrome it!" Competing, I would make sure it goes. There is so much difference between plain maple and the best low deflection shafts that an advanced beginner will feel like they are starting over again when they swap to low deflection. Start how you are going to finish. How many wooden racquets do you see on a tennis court?

Hu
There is nothing wrong with maple low deflection shafts. Its more important to stay with the same shaft and get used to it. I have 4 meucci the pro wood shafts and love them
  
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Ken_4fun
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03-05-2020, 02:51 PM

I disagree with the original poster. I am not saying they need to spend $10K on cue, but I think a solid cue for $500-1000 bought on the secondary market would be the best bet.

I think shaft taper, and tip being the most important of all. The second thing would be playing with the same cue for a period of time. You weren't driving a different race car each time you raced did you?

I have heard for 30 years about "road players" playing with a cue off the rack and not playing with even a sneaky pete. To me, that is the most amazing thing and makes it a little hard to believe for me. My thought is unless the old time pool halls took a lot better care of their "house" cues, the house cues in the places I play have terrible tips and play like logs.

Examples would be for budget minded would be a Rick Howard cue with a great tip. I use Moori soft usually but any would be fine as long as it taken care of.

I play leagues and see folks ask for advice on cues, and the people are getting terrible recommendations, IMO. I don't jump into their discussions unless asked. Why anyone would buy a factory cue new verses getting a great custom on secondary market stuns me. They still sell a lot of Meucci cues, which tells me JT Barnum was right....a sucker is born every minute.

Ken


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Last edited by Ken_4fun; 03-05-2020 at 02:54 PM.
  
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03-05-2020, 03:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dquarasr View Post
I used to do road course race car tracking. I have instructed at over 120 track days. Constantly I encountered students (and others) whose primary focus was on the car: what mods should I make? Should I get (these brake pads) (these shocks) (this exhaust) (these sway bars)? My usual answer was "make the nut that holds the steering wheel as good as the car, then start improving the car."

Similar to those questions, but not being particularly experienced with a wide variety of cue sticks, my question: When (or ever?) should someone interested in improving his or her game, invest in a "good" cue? How do we know when our equipment is holding us back?

(Disclaimer: I am a wildly inconsistent 350 USAPL / Level 4 APA player. I've played with a crappy cue at home, don't even know the brand name, can't make a shot, yet switch to an Adams and can make the same shots - In my head or something real?)

Thanks for the responses. I have found this site to be a wealth of appreciated information.
The only good cue is a SouthWest. Ok seriously...find a $200 cue, throw away the shaft, try different low deflection shafts, pick one. I recommend a 12.75 tip diameter, and put it on the butt. $450-$650 (ish) and you have all the cue you will ever need. Any more money than that (barring some high end CF shaft) and you are paying for a name or inlay material or something other than performance.

Last edited by DecentShot; 03-05-2020 at 03:13 PM.
  
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03-05-2020, 03:19 PM

Buy a nice entry level cue that fits your budget and taste and learn the fundamentals of playing. Unless you want something fancier, you may never need to switch. I've known champion level players who used a very affordable, barely over $100 cue and were/are monsters. You DON'T need a low deflection shaft. You just need to learn and get used to the cue you have. You will taper and fine-tune your own shaft over time. Once you have it perfected for you (over time)...don't do anything but lightly clean it.


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03-05-2020, 03:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_4fun View Post
I disagree with the original poster. I am not saying they need to spend $10K on cue, but I think a solid cue for $500-1000 bought on the secondary market would be the best bet.

I think shaft taper, and tip being the most important of all. The second thing would be playing with the same cue for a period of time. You weren't driving a different race car each time you raced did you?

I have heard for 30 years about "road players" playing with a cue off the rack and not playing with even a sneaky pete. To me, that is the most amazing thing and makes it a little hard to believe for me. My thought is unless the old time pool halls took a lot better care of their "house" cues, the house cues in the places I play have terrible tips and play like logs.

Examples would be for budget minded would be a Rick Howard cue with a great tip. I use Moori soft usually but any would be fine as long as it taken care of.

I play leagues and see folks ask for advice on cues, and the people are getting terrible recommendations, IMO. I don't jump into their discussions unless asked. Why anyone would buy a factory cue new verses getting a great custom on secondary market stuns me. They still sell a lot of Meucci cues, which tells me JT Barnum was right....a sucker is born every minute.

Ken
Not sure why that "stuns" you. I buy used cars because I can get a top of the line vehicle, only a few years old, for the price of some ordinary new vehicle. But, I see why folks want new as well. They got to pick the colors, options, etc. So, there is a trade off in both aspects.

Same with cues.

Neither is "wrong", just different.


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03-05-2020, 04:15 PM

A better quality cue by itself won’t make you a better player, but if having a more expensive cue results in you having more commitment to put in more hours practicing, it will!
  
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03-05-2020, 04:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRJ View Post
Not sure why that "stuns" you.
It stuns me that you can get an absolutely great playing cue on the secondary market for same price new POS Meucci, or other, and they still buy the Meucci.

Ken


Current cues - Balabushka, Gus Szamboti, Gus Szamboti Hoppe, Schick, Pfd, BHQ Butterfly, Rick Howard Sneaky Pete and Rick Howard J/B.

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03-05-2020, 04:32 PM

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Originally Posted by Matt_24 View Post
You DON'T need a low deflection shaft. You just need to learn and get used to the cue you have. You will taper and fine-tune your own shaft over time.
Not sure what you mean here (taper?), but the point of a LD shaft is so you don't have to fine tune around squirt.
  
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03-05-2020, 05:01 PM

any 50 to 100 dollar cue will get you through till you can run a rack of nine ball when it is open.
i shoot just as good after an hour with virtually any cue i have in my hand. so will you unless its a mental thing. that is a different story.
and yes ive seen a hand full of players run 100 balls playing off the wall. you cant do that if the cue is the thing affecting your shots.

its hard to blame yourself when missing shots so you blame the cue, the tip, the others watching.
  
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