Go Back   AzBilliards.com > Products Talk > Ask The Cuemaker
Reload this Page Installed cue tips falling off
Reply
Page 2 of 2 12
 
Share Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old
  (#16)
GoldCrown
Be Creative...play 1P
GoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond repute
 
GoldCrown's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 4,923
vCash: 500
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Join Date: May 2011
   
06-15-2018, 06:12 PM

I use Bob Smith CA...$8.00 for 2oz on Amazon.

If the the tips are falling off now and after 6 months...

Using enough glue?
Flat clean rough sanded surfaces?
Go to the source Use new glue. You said your glue was new but that does not mean anything.
If it only happening with a certain tip it's a materials issue. Try a different tip.
Did you change technique?




Player: Schon H4L w/ REVO
Case:JB 4/8 Hybrid
Favorite Game...Pocket a Piece
Instructional source: "One Pocket...A Game of Controlled Aggression" by Tom Wirth. This book is a players best friend.
1P Instructor: Tom Wirth
Stroke Instructor: Scott Lee

I need more cues like a snail needs airbrakes

Last edited by GoldCrown; 06-16-2018 at 02:01 PM.
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#17)
conetip
AzB Silver Member
conetip has a reputation beyond reputeconetip has a reputation beyond reputeconetip has a reputation beyond reputeconetip has a reputation beyond reputeconetip has a reputation beyond reputeconetip has a reputation beyond reputeconetip has a reputation beyond reputeconetip has a reputation beyond reputeconetip has a reputation beyond reputeconetip has a reputation beyond reputeconetip has a reputation beyond repute
 
conetip's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,920
vCash: 2900
iTrader: 28 / 100%
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
   
06-15-2018, 08:47 PM

Fresh Ca helps. For some ferrules the PU glues do work, or toughened epoxies.
406 loctite for difficult to bond materials works very well, as does the 454.
Having Flat surfaces on the ferrule and the tip is important. If the tip can rock even the slightest amount when put against the ferrule when dry before gluing, chances are it will fail at some point. I used to sand with 120 or so grit. Have not done so since speaking with Royce about tips, so went to using fine paper , 400 grit for the tips. Also changed to the priming of tips, so put a thin layer of glue on the tip, let it dry, sand back flat then glue. The primer/accelerator only needs to be on the ferrule surface. I wait until it has dried before placing the tip. Either use the spray, or in my case a q tip (cotton bud for the English) and wipe a very thin layer on the flat ferrule surface. Also found that having the paper bonded to a flat surface, made things a lot easier, than having the paper sitting on a flat surface. Thin double sided tape is good. The paper strip only needs to be like 5/8 or 3/4 inch wide, same width as the thin double sided tape.


Neil Lickfold.
Cuttlefish Cues.
cuttlefishcues@gmail.com
Sorry, not taking any cue orders until further notice.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#18)
Kim Bye
AzB Silver Member

Kim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond repute
 
Kim Bye's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 2,738
vCash: 500
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oslo
   
06-16-2018, 01:05 PM

By looking at the pictures, I think I see several problems.

1. Ferrules are not properly faced off.
2. Tips aren`t sanded flat, sealed with CA, then sanded flat again
3. I suspect no denatured alcohol was used to remove grease or dirt from the two surfaces before gluing.

Spend money on a quality CA, Loctite 401 and 454 both works great. My experiences with B.S.I are mixed, I like their epoxies though



Cold silence
has a tendency
to atrophy any
sense of compassion
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#19)
eNkel
AzB Bronze Member
eNkel is on a distinguished road
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 18
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: May 2016
   
06-16-2018, 04:47 PM

Thanks guys for the answers! Will help me alot!

But I need a little bit explanation about a few words and abbrevations. What do you mean with CA? Is this fluid glue like Loctite 401?

Quote:
but small scores on any glues surface will help with bonding.
Quote:
don't score the ferrule
What do you mean with scores/score? Google translater can't help me with this verb/word

...and...
Quote:
If the tip can rock even the slightest amount when put against the ferrule when dry before gluing, chances are it will fail at some point.
"rock"?! You mean sliding around?


And guys, only put a thin layer of super glue on the tip, not the ferrule, right?
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#20)
scdiveteam
Rick Geschrey
scdiveteam has a reputation beyond reputescdiveteam has a reputation beyond reputescdiveteam has a reputation beyond reputescdiveteam has a reputation beyond reputescdiveteam has a reputation beyond reputescdiveteam has a reputation beyond reputescdiveteam has a reputation beyond reputescdiveteam has a reputation beyond reputescdiveteam has a reputation beyond reputescdiveteam has a reputation beyond reputescdiveteam has a reputation beyond repute
 
scdiveteam's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 4,672
vCash: 500
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Palatine, Illinois
   
06-16-2018, 05:21 PM

Medium Atlas Super Glue. Atlas Cynos are not diluted at all. Much cheaper also than locktite per unit volume by a factor of 10x also.

If you lap the tip and scuff the ferrule face, use this glue and the tip come off, quit cue repair for life. LOL



"Handcrafted Cues using Procedural Process Control"


Cell 847 641-0276

Last edited by scdiveteam; 06-16-2018 at 05:24 PM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#21)
Kim Bye
AzB Silver Member

Kim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond repute
 
Kim Bye's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 2,738
vCash: 500
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oslo
   
06-16-2018, 05:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eNkel View Post
Thanks guys for the answers! Will help me alot!

But I need a little bit explanation about a few words and abbrevations. What do you mean with CA? Is this fluid glue like Loctite 401?



What do you mean with scores/score? Google translater can't help me with this verb/word

...and...

"rock"?! You mean sliding around?


And guys, only put a thin layer of super glue on the tip, not the ferrule, right?
CA is short for CyanoAcrylate, what we commonly call "superglue"
If you score the ferrule, you cut a few thin lines with a razorblade. I prefer two perfectly flat surfaces, in my experence, scoring the ferrule does not help, and you could potentially weaken the ferrule.
Sand the tip flat, put a few drops of CA on the tip, let it dry, sand it flat again, rinse the back of the tip and the ferrule with denatured alcohol. When it`s dry, you can glue the tip to the ferrule.



Cold silence
has a tendency
to atrophy any
sense of compassion

Last edited by Kim Bye; 06-17-2018 at 08:25 AM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#22)
Dave38
theemperorhasnoclotheson
Dave38 has a reputation beyond reputeDave38 has a reputation beyond reputeDave38 has a reputation beyond reputeDave38 has a reputation beyond reputeDave38 has a reputation beyond reputeDave38 has a reputation beyond reputeDave38 has a reputation beyond reputeDave38 has a reputation beyond reputeDave38 has a reputation beyond reputeDave38 has a reputation beyond reputeDave38 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Dave38's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,490
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 64 / 100%
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Western Mass
   
06-16-2018, 06:53 PM

Here is a short video showing how rough vs smooth surfaces affects bonding of super glues. Pay attention at the 1:16 mark...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7deOOmrxBM
Roughing a ferrule facing only weakens it, it may help with shear forces, but that's not what we need the most when gluing a tip on.
Everyone has their own way, but IMHO, smooth is the way to go.
Dave

Last edited by Dave38; 06-16-2018 at 06:55 PM.
  
Reply With Quote
Muffin Top
Old
  (#23)
Island Drive
AzB Silver Member
Island Drive has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Drive has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Drive has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Drive has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Drive has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Drive has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Drive has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Drive has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Drive has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Drive has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Drive has a reputation beyond repute
 
Island Drive's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 7,052
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Colorado
   
Muffin Top - 06-17-2018, 05:53 AM

Here's my trick. Bottom line both glue surfaces must be faced, Willards tip tool always works, if you do it this way. Problem I see Nowadays, is layered tips have no Crown. This is where the problem lies, along with squishing glue with a tool made for this procedure.

Once both surfaces are faced equally, they must have the proper ''scratch coat''. Same thinking as a drywall or cement work. The grit of the sandpaper on the wheel is (PS22 in on the back of mine I just looked) is critical, it sets the depths of the glue. You don't want too fine or too coarse of a scratch coat. Like another said some tips/leather soak up more glue.

Ok, here's the trick....before you face up/glue the tip to the ferrule, attach with Very little glue, a tip with a crown to the top of your layered tip that has NO crown yet?
Next, on the layered tip apply an amount of glue that is a little too much. Touch tip/glue to ferrule facing, rotating tip/ferrule to make sure both surfaces are WET with glue.

CRITICAL....

Center tip as best you can by eye. Once it's centered....grab shaft, hold joint end at 12 o'clock and drop/bounce one time, lightly the tip off the counter, floor or any hard surface....ONCE....re-center the tip and let dry. There is a nice EQUAL layer of glue between tip/ferrule, not compromised by a vice type tool. If the tip is flat, your NOT ABLE to do the drop squish/muffin top, it won't work. You must have a tip with a crown.

You'll notice....Now, the tip has a muffin top of glue sticking out all the way around, perfect. What you actually have done is ''hydraulically'' by Dropping the tip to a hard surface, you have burped out any possible air bubbles and evenly spread the glue amount to each face.

Muffin Glue.... no problem

What to do with the muffin top of glue? I use SG gel and in 20 minutes I'll take a piece of tin foil, wrap it around the shaft below the muffin top, then slid upward and turn the shaft removing all the muffin glue, thus not allowing it to get on the shaft or ferrule.

That's how I do it.


www.worldbilliardtour.com
Domain Name Only....

Bill Meacham
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#24)
JC
Needs Moderation
JC has a reputation beyond reputeJC has a reputation beyond reputeJC has a reputation beyond reputeJC has a reputation beyond reputeJC has a reputation beyond reputeJC has a reputation beyond reputeJC has a reputation beyond reputeJC has a reputation beyond reputeJC has a reputation beyond reputeJC has a reputation beyond reputeJC has a reputation beyond repute
 
JC's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 8,473
vCash: 500
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: PNW
   
06-17-2018, 07:22 AM

Here are my conclusions after reading this thread.

Super glue is amazing stuff and damned near anything you do with it will probably work.

Or might fail.

There can't be this big of a variety and opposing techniques of the right way to do it for an actual right way to exist. If it works for you keep doing it. Until it doesn't then try something else.

JC


John Chaplin
Coos Cues
jchaplin@charter.net
It's not what you don't know that get's you in trouble.
It's what you know that just ain't so.
  
Reply With Quote
tall drop of glue
Old
  (#25)
James Sarenich
AzB Silver Member
James Sarenich has a reputation beyond reputeJames Sarenich has a reputation beyond reputeJames Sarenich has a reputation beyond reputeJames Sarenich has a reputation beyond reputeJames Sarenich has a reputation beyond reputeJames Sarenich has a reputation beyond reputeJames Sarenich has a reputation beyond reputeJames Sarenich has a reputation beyond reputeJames Sarenich has a reputation beyond reputeJames Sarenich has a reputation beyond reputeJames Sarenich has a reputation beyond repute
 
James Sarenich's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 98
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Jul 2009
   
tall drop of glue - 06-17-2018, 09:09 AM

One of the first things I noticed, is you talk of spreading the CA. It should not be spread! By doing this you will loose holding power. Prime all non padded tips. I like to give each tip a nice deep breath of air onto them. CA likes this moisture. Then a good tall drop of CA. When you push the tip onto the ferrule, the glue will spread. Apply your pressure. Wipe off all your excess glue. If taped, take it off. I like to leave the tip over night before trimming. CA takes about 24 hours to completely cure.

Fresh CA, keep it in your refrigerator.
Sand FLAT, tips and ferrule.
Prime all non padded tips.
Do not spread your CA, a good tall drop, moisture in your breath and air help it cure.
Let the glue cure before trimming.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#26)
GoldCrown
Be Creative...play 1P
GoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond reputeGoldCrown has a reputation beyond repute
 
GoldCrown's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 4,923
vCash: 500
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Join Date: May 2011
   
06-17-2018, 09:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eNkel View Post
Hey!

So, I'm installing cue tips without a lathe since more than a year now and I had never a problem like this before
So what did you change if the problem just started.

What others said

Face, clean, proper amount of CA glue, get tip on quickly in proper position.
I will not contradict what techniques others use. But what I do. Gently sand the ferrule. Sand tip on a flat rigid surface using 80 grit. I apply some CA to tip...take tip and quickly but not wildly spread some of the glue onto the ferrule and apply. Before putting glue on tip...Wrap outside ferrule with blue tape to keep glue off of it. Remove tape as soon as you are satisfied with tip position. Can I suggest you watch a few YouTube videos ..there are plently of them.




Player: Schon H4L w/ REVO
Case:JB 4/8 Hybrid
Favorite Game...Pocket a Piece
Instructional source: "One Pocket...A Game of Controlled Aggression" by Tom Wirth. This book is a players best friend.
1P Instructor: Tom Wirth
Stroke Instructor: Scott Lee

I need more cues like a snail needs airbrakes

Last edited by GoldCrown; 06-17-2018 at 10:39 AM.
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 2 of 2 12

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.