Where's the profit ?

JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
If you stock $10 tips and you charge $20 to install it, where's your profit ?

Normal businesses at least charge 3 times the price of their inventory.
That's with no labor involved.
Home air conditioning part that costs $20 ( if that ) cost $250 to get installed .
One honest A/C repairman told me that.
He told me he'd install it and just charge me for estimate cost ( $65 ) .
This man was a diamond in the rough.

Now back to cue repair biz.
Why do repair peeps like doing charity for pool players ?
They think charging $35 to install a $20 at cost tip is great while he's sitting on a few tips ? So, his last 5 tip install is going to be his profit ? The first 5 or so was just to pay for the last 5 tips ?
Never mind the glue, blade, sealer and wax.
Or your skill. Or heaven forbid, the tip delaminates or flies off ( sh8 happens. Some ferrules are cheap plastic ).
 
Canadian cue

Canadian cue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Because a lot of guys do this as a hobby and are not that concerned with making a profit. If the hobby pays for itself then they are happy.
The thing they don't realize is that it effects the guys who try and do it as a living. Although honestly I don't think that there is very many who do.
 
B

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
i am not a cue maker so if i am inappropriate to reply let me know and i will delete my post
as a "customer" here is my 2 cents
the 10 dollar tip i know you keep in inventory but also i can buy on line for the same price
i think most players would resist paying $30 just for the tip ( your 3x retail )and labor on top
actually i believe you guys can as dealers buy tips cheaper than online prices
if true there is some profit there
if a player brought you a tip assuming you would put a tip on for a player that did not buy the tip from you
whats your labor fee??
thats you earnings
you may want to factor into your labor fee your other expenses to increase your profit
jmho
 
Double-Dave

Double-Dave

Developing cue-addict
Silver Member
JoeyInCali said:
If you stock $10 tips and you charge $20 to install it, where's your profit ?

Normal businesses at least charge 3 times the price of their inventory.
That's with no labor involved.
Home air conditioning part that costs $20 ( if that ) cost $250 to get installed .
One honest A/C repairman told me that.
He told me he'd install it and just charge me for estimate cost ( $65 ) .
This man was a diamond in the rough.

Now back to cue repair biz.
Why do repair peeps like doing charity for pool players ?
They think charging $35 to install a $20 at cost tip is great while he's sitting on a few tips ? So, his last 5 tip install is going to be his profit ? The first 5 or so was just to pay for the last 5 tips ?
Never mind the glue, blade, sealer and wax.
Or your skill. Or heaven forbid, the tip delaminates or flies off ( sh8 happens. Some ferrules are cheap plastic ).
Click to expand...

Normal businesses do not charge 3x the price. Not in 2018, not even close.

But, that's besides the point. Cuemaking, and especially repair work is not at all like a retail store, it is much more like a well-skilled handyman. Say, someone who's in roofing or plastering.

As such the cost of the tip is irrelevant. You need to figure out how much you need to make an hour to make it worth it. Let's say $40 an hour for 40 hours a week. If you're regularly changing tips and they take on average 15 minutes then you need to make $10 on it. If tip/glue/blades/warranty cost $12 total then it's a $22 tip change.

Obviously the $40 might not be enough for everyone. If you have can work 40 hours a week and have $500 rent and on average $500 in wear and tear on your equipment then it may be fine for you. Not so much if your rent is $1200 and the wear/tear $1500 and can only work 25 hours a week.

Regards, Dave
 
Last edited:
skins

skins

Likes to draw
Silver Member
Take advantage of those "cheap" tip changes as teasers for up-sale to other services just like a lot of businesss do. Don't give other services way for free with the tip change. Everthing a le cart... Tip pads, shaft cleaning, shaft reconditioning, ding removal..etc..which may lead to selling extensions, shafts, cues. etc.... You gotta be a salesman.(an honest one ;))
 
JC

JC

Coos Cues
JoeyInCali said:
If you stock $10 tips and you charge $20 to install it, where's your profit ?

Normal businesses at least charge 3 times the price of their inventory.
That's with no labor involved.
Home air conditioning part that costs $20 ( if that ) cost $250 to get installed .
One honest A/C repairman told me that.
He told me he'd install it and just charge me for estimate cost ( $65 ) .
This man was a diamond in the rough.

Now back to cue repair biz.
Why do repair peeps like doing charity for pool players ?
They think charging $35 to install a $20 at cost tip is great while he's sitting on a few tips ? So, his last 5 tip install is going to be his profit ? The first 5 or so was just to pay for the last 5 tips ?
Never mind the glue, blade, sealer and wax.
Or your skill. Or heaven forbid, the tip delaminates or flies off ( sh8 happens. Some ferrules are cheap plastic ).
Click to expand...

They charge that because that's all the market will bear and most have other sources of income other than installing tips.

In my business we don't make as much profit changing oil as other repairs but we do it because the market won't bear much more and we want the loyalty of the customer.

Go ahead and charge $85 To install a tip that cost you $20 and see how many you install.

JC
 
jayman

jayman

Hi Mom!
Gold Member
Silver Member
JoeyInCali said:
If you stock $10 tips and you charge $20 to install it, where's your profit ?

Normal businesses at least charge 3 times the price of their inventory.
That's with no labor involved.
Home air conditioning part that costs $20 ( if that ) cost $250 to get installed .
One honest A/C repairman told me that.
He told me he'd install it and just charge me for estimate cost ( $65 ) .
This man was a diamond in the rough.

Now back to cue repair biz.
Why do repair peeps like doing charity for pool players ?
They think charging $35 to install a $20 at cost tip is great while he's sitting on a few tips ? So, his last 5 tip install is going to be his profit ? The first 5 or so was just to pay for the last 5 tips ?
Never mind the glue, blade, sealer and wax.
Or your skill. Or heaven forbid, the tip delaminates or flies off ( sh8 happens. Some ferrules are cheap plastic ).[/QUOTE

Installing tips for a cue-maker is where the "small jobs add up" theory comes into play. and you treat a guy right for ten years, suddenly he is having cues made, old ones restored, telling friends and acquaintances about you. it takes ten minutes to build that life long relation.
Click to expand...
 
Tommy-D

Tommy-D

World's best B player...
Silver Member
My "business" is so small that even though I get customers from a 100 mile range,I've only had ONE customer ever pay me 35.00 for a Kamui that I had on hand here in town. The others I had on hand were sold and installed at my yearly tournament venue,I charged 40.00 with shaft cleaning included unless specified otherwise for those.

Until I'm busy enough to get them wholesale I can't keep them on hand because there isn't anywhere near enough demand in my area,and most people that play pool locally sure as hell aren't lining up to pay even 35.00.

Hence my fondness for the Ultraskins. I honestly can't tell a noticable difference between them and the Kamui,and I've sold and installed about 200 examples of solid product and solid work for 20.00 since they came out.

There was a pool room down the road from me in another town that was open for about 2 years. During that time,on top of the other tips I went thru almost 3 full boxes of Le Pro's at 15.00 installed. I also keep Triangle,Elks,WB,and my own "milk dud" variation on hand.

Since I don't keep the "premium" tips on hand,people have ordered their own and brought them to me. I charge a flat 20.00 unless the customer is a regular.

Ferrules are a flat 35.00 with your choice of tip,unless it's provided. Tommy D.
 
cueman

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Except on a few specialty items most retailers only have a gross profit margin of 30 to 50 percent. There are the occasional items that might bring 66 percent gross profit margins but that is three times cost and is rare. I have a few items I make that kind of profit on but I have others I might make 10 percent on. I stock those low profit items to keep the customers coming to me. As far as tips go 30 to 50 percent gross margin and 15 dollars to install seems about right for my rural area. But for a big city with high overhead or on sight repairs at an expo that would be too cheap. Just my opinion.
 
Mcues

Mcues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tips

In my area tips use to be the loss leader that led to custom cue orders. These days, most Pool Halls do their own, and there's probably 4 individuals with small lathes doing tips within 15 mile range. Priced from outrageous to almost free. As of yesterday, 3 cue-makers, one of them full time.

The personal approach to pricing is as follows, tips $10 to $30 and I don't really care if I do any. The service has lost its purpose.

Mario
 
MJB

MJB

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cue tips and HVAC aren't exactly an apples to apples comparison. Was your A/C out when you were thinking about this? :D

Here's a couple of comparables that are a bit more comparable... Tennis racquet - $10-30 for string, $20-30 for a quality installation. Golf club grips - cost $5-10 each, install at a pro shop $3-5 each.

These are also things that don't have much profit margin per item but you can crank them out fairly quickly on installs.


JoeyInCali said:
If you stock $10 tips and you charge $20 to install it, where's your profit ?

Normal businesses at least charge 3 times the price of their inventory.
That's with no labor involved.
Home air conditioning part that costs $20 ( if that ) cost $250 to get installed .
One honest A/C repairman told me that.
He told me he'd install it and just charge me for estimate cost ( $65 ) .
This man was a diamond in the rough.

Now back to cue repair biz.
Why do repair peeps like doing charity for pool players ?
They think charging $35 to install a $20 at cost tip is great while he's sitting on a few tips ? So, his last 5 tip install is going to be his profit ? The first 5 or so was just to pay for the last 5 tips ?
Never mind the glue, blade, sealer and wax.
Or your skill. Or heaven forbid, the tip delaminates or flies off ( sh8 happens. Some ferrules are cheap plastic ).
Click to expand...
 
G

gregoryda

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You have various levels of pool players.

1 Folks just beginning who and pickup a Walmart $30 cue or maybe splurge for a $100-200 cue. They aren't going to pay much for a new tip/install. I've even overheard them say "I'm not paying that much for a tip, I'll just buy a new cue when this tip wears out".

2. Typical league players (APA/BCA) who play in a league a few times a week and practice a few times a week. This is who I typically work with. Some are willing to purchase a $20-25 Kamui or other brand name tip, others will go with what I stock, typically UltraSkins/Milkduds/Kamikazi. If they purchase and bring me the tip I charge $15 to install/clean ferrule. If I supply the tip, I charge a flat $20. Not a very good business model, but it's more of a hobby to me, so I'm not trying to make a living replacing tips.

3. Semi-pro/Pro who play a lot of tournaments. No clue what they are willing to pay, yet to deal with any.
 
HawaiianEye

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Profit? What's profit?

Years ago, when I played exclusively with Le Pro tips, I'd install tips, by hand, for FREE for anybody I knew in the pool hall. And, to top it off (no pun intended), I'd even give them the tip.

Wasn't a good business model, but I didn't mind doing it for people I liked.
 
Michael Webb

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cueman said:
Except on a few specialty items most retailers only have a gross profit margin of 30 to 50 percent. There are the occasional items that might bring 66 percent gross profit margins but that is three times cost and is rare. I have a few items I make that kind of profit on but I have others I might make 10 percent on. I stock those low profit items to keep the customers coming to me. As far as tips go 30 to 50 percent gross margin and 15 dollars to install seems about right for my rural area. But for a big city with high overhead or on sight repairs at an expo that would be too cheap. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

Tap tap. That is a very good and accurate answer.
I agree.
 
scdiveteam

scdiveteam

Rick Geschrey
Silver Member
JoeyInCali said:
If you stock $10 tips and you charge $20 to install it, where's your profit ?

Normal businesses at least charge 3 times the price of their inventory.
That's with no labor involved.
Home air conditioning part that costs $20 ( if that ) cost $250 to get installed .
One honest A/C repairman told me that.
He told me he'd install it and just charge me for estimate cost ( $65 ) .
This man was a diamond in the rough.

Now back to cue repair biz.
Why do repair peeps like doing charity for pool players ?
They think charging $35 to install a $20 at cost tip is great while he's sitting on a few tips ? So, his last 5 tip install is going to be his profit ? The first 5 or so was just to pay for the last 5 tips ?
Never mind the glue, blade, sealer and wax.
Or your skill. Or heaven forbid, the tip delaminates or flies off ( sh8 happens. Some ferrules are cheap plastic ).
Click to expand...


Joey,

I stock 6 basic tips I buy by the box.

25.00 each installed with shaft cleaning, reseal and bufffing.

My customers who want expensive tips, buy them and bring them to my shop. 25.00 to install, shaft clean, reseal and buffing.

I don't need to stock expensive tips and worry about inventory.

Try it you will like it.

Rick
 
J

Johnnybgood

Banned
The margins and business models you speak of are common to most businesses. As a business man I can tell you there are two ways to make a profit in any business.

1-Quantity

2-Price

If you do tip replacements where at the the end of the process you net $5.00 per tip replacement then you best be doing a lot of tip replacements per day to make any kind of a living. You can justify it by telling yourself you are providing a service but that justification does nothing for your bottom line.

If you increase your pricing you will increase your margins. Possibly doing less repairs but making more money per tip which equates to less work. If you have more work than you can handle then that’s the time to raise your prices. Let the qty fall off till it hits the work vs profit line. That’s the balance you want.

Lots of businesses equate busy to profit. This is not necessarily the case.

Bottom line. Unless you are interested and have the business flow to do 100 tip replacements a day then raise those prices. Raise them till it meets the correct ratio for your business.

There is one other way to run successfully. It’s the Golden business. It’s what Apple does and it’s rare and that is to charge the top dollar, have the business flow and the customers.


Raise your prices. Where else can you get a professionally installed item that last a year or more for say $50?


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
greyghost

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Tommy-D said:
Since I don't keep the "premium" tips on hand,people have ordered their own and brought them to me. I charge a flat 20.00 unless the customer is a regular.

Tommy D.
Click to expand...



Same thing I do I don’t need to do tips for the cash and I refuse to spend gobs or money to stock all the latest flavors..... just screwing with tips like that I’d turn belly up and green in the face lol.

With amazon prime and such eases of shipping today I haven’t really heard anyone complain plus as has been mentioned they bypass any material markups I put on those pricey tips.... so it’s beneficial to both of us.....again tho I’m not running a house pro shop in a pool hall either.

I mark up materials 30-50% generally speaking for run of mill easily attained woods and parts.....specialty items vary in hand with the difficulty/costs of sourcing




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Kim Bye

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The profit is a combination of how much work you do, how big batches of tips you can buy (most brands seems to have a system that gives a higher discount if you buy big)
But most importantly is return customers and the fact that the customer very often have other jobs for you if he or she is happy with your work. I`m guessing atleast 50% of my customers also buy other stuff like gloves, tip tools, chalk, bags cues etc. from me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top