8 Ball Soft Break

dbgordie

Thread Killer!!
Silver Member
I too like the second ball break. It causes clusters and makes me work harder to try and run a rack. Working with clusters and still getting position for the next shot is a crucial skill to have. If you hit it medium speed, you get lots of clusters and might make a ball or two as well. If you can't run out, maybe you will get back to the table if your opponent isn't as strong in that area. It's like any other weakness they might have. Once you know their weakness, you want to exploit it. I'm not as good at banking as I am at cutting/shaving. So sticking me with a bank shot is a smart way to play safe. A lot of folks will get mad if you soft break at any game other than 1P and 14.1. It's better to mask your intention with a medium break that has almost the same results.

IMHO
 

us820

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was asked to play on an 8 ball team. I'm mostly a One Pocket Player.
So why would you not soft break 8 ball and give yourself a chance to get to the table?
Has anyone developed the Soft Break for 8-ball?
Yes,every 2 that gets dumped on me.
 

Tin Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
+1

I hope all my opponents soft break at 8-ball.
The games they win will probably take a long time....and they won’t always win.
I can run out when I break....and every once in a while I’ll lay a small pack on them...
....and break their heart.

100% agreed.

You CANNOT beat a good player that breaks and runs out multiple racks off their break by fighting for the racks you break. It isn't possible. Strong players are well over 50% to break and run, and that is too much equity to give up.

Now if you're playing weak competition that you can consistently out move, then maybe. But it is an extremely exploitative approach that can only target those exact players. If you're playing strong competition you must run out, period.

In addition - when you pocket balls on the break you have the chance to run a table with 14, 13, or even less balls on the table. Should you come up dry there are all 15 by definition making their opportunities more difficult than yours.

I do like moving games and good safeties, but I like winning more. Break hard and run out. If you can't, then work on your game until you can.
 

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
I soft broke 8 ball last night just practicing and played a guy. Made for longer
games but I found it interesting. I was winning if I took care of getting my balls in play
and kept him with bad options. I liked being sure that I had a chance at the table
instead of breaking things out nicey nice for him to run out.

Works great....

As long as the other guy has absolutely no clue as to what he's doing..

I played a lot of regional events in Colorado / Wyoming that were alternate breaks, and both my opponents and I would regularly break and run 3+ of our racks in a race to 5. Safety breaking in 8 ball in that sort of event will get you bounced out in two rounds quick, fast, and in a hurry. You are giving an opponent an unnecessary chance at beating you on your own break.

If you have a weak barbox 8 ball break, you should practice your break, not cover up a weakness with a questionable strategy.

Short Bus Russ
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
I too like the second ball break. It causes clusters and makes me work harder to try and run a rack. Working with clusters and still getting position for the next shot is a crucial skill to have. If you hit it medium speed, you get lots of clusters and might make a ball or two as well. If you can't run out, maybe you will get back to the table if your opponent isn't as strong in that area. It's like any other weakness they might have. Once you know their weakness, you want to exploit it. I'm not as good at banking as I am at cutting/shaving. So sticking me with a bank shot is a smart way to play safe. A lot of folks will get mad if you soft break at any game other than 1P and 14.1. It's better to mask your intention with a medium break that has almost the same results.

IMHO

I'll give that a whirl. Good Post!Thanks!
 

marek

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was asked to play on an 8 ball team. I'm mostly a One Pocket Player.
So why would you not soft break 8 ball and give yourself a chance to get to the table?
Has anyone developed the Soft Break for 8-ball?

Depends on the skill level. If I am superior in skills to my opponent I dont see a reason why to play safety break, I will outpower him; if my opponent has similar skill or he is better than me then I dont see the point of safety break neither as the chances are he will runout as well, it will only take longer :thumbup: But even at lower skill level I would advocate learning good controlled "normal" break as it will benefit your game much better in a long run ;) But if you really want to play hide and seek then second row ball break works fine as others already said ;)
 

MickeyMantle

Mickey Mantle #7
Breaking is hit and miss with me, never really practice it. I'm still trying to learn to run a rack, so why learn to break really good first. If you do, then all you are doing is breaking it good for the other guy to run the rack....seems that Bert Kinister said that once.
 

heater451

Registered
Breaking is hit and miss with me, never really practice it. I'm still trying to learn to run a rack, so why learn to break really good first. If you do, then all you are doing is breaking it good for the other guy to run the rack....seems that Bert Kinister said that once.

I think this includes an assumption that the non-breaking player is fairly strong (run-out, or close to run-out player; APA 7-ish). Matt mentions the non-breaking player being better:

Intentionally giving up the table on the break gives your opponent the advantage. If they aren't skilled or patient enough to capitalize on that, maybe you can get a few wins that way, but I don't think it's a sustainable strategy against higher level players that will take that advantage and either run out or stick you in a worse spot.


It still comes back to what is actually left after the break, but taking the results, while it probably has *more* advantages, it may also be a (hidden) disadvantage.

I think that most players are aggressive, and tend to play for a run-out, even if 1) they aren't particularly capable of it, and 2) they don't have a table lay that really allows it. My point is, that a player will take the lay from a dry break, and then attempt to run balls (not necessarily considering whether the whole rack is out or not, at the time). Odds are--speaking in probability terms--that they will NOT run the whole rack. In that case, the advantage returns to the one who broke, as now there are more potential shots open (clearer table), and likely more defensive/hiding opportunities.

Furthermore, consider that you were playing "2 and hide", where you consistently sink 2 balls, and then play a safe shot. Obviously, it's not always possible, but it's something else one can practice. [Now that I'm typing about it, it seems a bit like a sandbagging technique!... :eek:]

Back to the main point.... Playing an up-to-average opponent, who is not likely to run 5-7 balls, it can be an advantage to let them clear room on the table, so that one can take over when they miss.

Sidenote: It can also be advantageous, to miss shots, to set up a later run out, especially if you can do so while denying the other player a run out. For example, I often find that I can win games against stronger players (I am an APA 6), without falling into the trap of running everything but the last ball or two, and then having them run out and/or run to a safe on me--basically, the same scenario as the soft/clustered/bad, dry break, which this thread is about.
 

15cherries

15cherries
Silver Member
get your average up

We had a guy in our league that would safety break always so no one could run-out on him and he could get 4-5 balls every game and have a good average, chicken-shit pool and no-one can stand playing him. I used to stay home the week we played them because it just got to be stupid league bullshit, so go ahead and play that way and eventually you will end-up playing by yourself.
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Works great....

As long as the other guy has absolutely no clue as to what he's doing..

I played a lot of regional events in Colorado / Wyoming that were alternate breaks, and both my opponents and I would regularly break and run 3+ of our racks in a race to 5. Safety breaking in 8 ball in that sort of event will get you bounced out in two rounds quick, fast, and in a hurry. You are giving an opponent an unnecessary chance at beating you on your own break.

If you have a weak barbox 8 ball break, you should practice your break, not cover up a weakness with a questionable strategy.

Short Bus Russ

Yep, a higher level opponent the soft break isn't as good on. I used the 2nd ball medium speed this past
Tuesday night got out the first game. Won the next 2 and watched one guy run out on a dry break barely lost the other.
I may try another break but I'll work with this on for awhile yet.
 

Bad Luck

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If I am not making balls on the break then I will do a soft break. Why spread the balls all over the table giving your opponent his choice? One thing to consider also is the psychological effect on your opponent of an unexpected soft break. Many are not used to it & think it is illegal. If you knock the required # of balls to the rail, it is perfectly legal. But it gets them in a tizzy & all worked up. Then they can't play right & they lose.
 

Mkindsv

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have found the second ball break hit at medium speed tends to leave a more clustered lay out, which favors the experienced player. It also has the potential to move the 8 ball if you are in a match where the 8 ball break wins. If I am using a magic rack on a 7 footer, the wing ball can go straight in. If that is happening consistently I will hit a little harder to hopefully open the balls a little better for the potential run out.

I have noticed in the eight ball events on the seven foot Diamonds that a lot of the pro players are opting for the second ball break.

I like the second ball break as well. I do it a little differently though. I break from 2 diamonds up and one diamond from the rail, just about a half tip under center CB with no English whatsoever...

I came up with this while trying to mitigate some of the clusters and scratching/cue ball flying off the table if hit too hard etc. The eight gets going rather quickly for the side pocket as well.

Love the second ball break.
 

KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What is the best method of training for this?



Make sure you know how to rack properly. Perhaps practice with a magic rack.

Form a break strategy and hit a bunch of breaks. A break strategy would be something like "I'm gonna put the cue ball here, shoot for about 18 mph, and a smooth pop on the front ball, and make the 2nd ball in the side" for example.

Practicing these things with the Break Rak device is hugely valuable.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 

jimmyco

NRA4Life
Silver Member
Make sure you know how to rack properly. Perhaps practice with a magic rack.

Form a break strategy and hit a bunch of breaks. A break strategy would be something like "I'm gonna put the cue ball here, shoot for about 18 mph, and a smooth pop on the front ball, and make the 2nd ball in the side" for example.

Practicing these things with the Break Rak device is hugely valuable.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

I will work on that.

Thank you.
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
I hope all my opponents soft break at 8-ball.
The games they win will probably take a long time....and they won’t always win.
I can run out when I break....and every once in a while I’ll lay a small pack on them...
....and break their heart.

Nice PT, it takes a gambler to think like a gambler ;)

If I'm playing a monster in my league, and there are quite a few, why am I going to let him decide the game off my break.

It's a given that he shoots next if I dry break. So, I'm giving him 100% chance to come to the table versus, 30% if I break and do not make a ball. The other 70% he is NOT coming to the table immediately after the break.

That's why walking a guy in baseball is so terrible. If you walk him, he's got a 100% of reaching first. If you pitch to him, even the best hitter in the league is only about 33% of reaching at least first base. Intentional walks are different, and usually set because first base is open, and puts a double play in order. Or, the guy behind him bats lefty and he hits terrible against left handed pitchers.


Now, your opponent can play safe and hide me from making one of the favorable balls, or he can shoot at the favorable balls himself, either way, he dictates the game and I'm stuck with stripes that are locked up tighter than a drum.

No thanks. If I break dry and he runs out, good for him. But, I'm not giving up my break... it only benefits him, and hurts me.

Like PT says, I wish they all dry break against me, good and bad players :) Heck, I'll put in the quarters for every game one of my opponent wants to dry break in league ;)
 
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Agent 99

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Soft break may be ok for you, but personally I like to wack the living crap out of an 8 ball rack. Yes .. I like to turn my power break loose and pop the head ball dead on, making as loud a cracking sound as I possibly can. If multiple heads do not turn, or if I fail to scare at least some women and children, I simply did not hit it good enough.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
I simply don't understand why ANYONE would think it a good idea to soft break at 8 ball? I mean, I can sort of understand it, you did it one time and your opponent messed up, earning you a win. Then you just kept on doing it. That's got to be it. What are you going to do when your opponent doesn't make unforced errors, or makes them only rarely? Lose, that's what.

I play blackball sometimes. You know, the english pub game with 7 footers, yellow and red balls instead of stripes and solids, and super tight, rounded pockets. I think that game is the most favourable for tactical play out of all the pool games..yet..At the top level the players are running out seemingly impossible tables. People rarely soft break at that game. Even with world rules (a particularly tactical variant), as long as the players are decent they want to stay at the table. The first shot is the greatest advantage there is to be had in blackball, 8 ball, Chinese 8 ball etc..Selecting the best group will often grant you an easy win, where the other group will have you playing uphill. At blackball, with 3-4 balls on the cushion, you need near super human skills to run out, yet the other group may be easy. Are you seriously going to give your opponent that choice, voluntarily?

Break hard, make balls, or you will be murdered. It's that easy, yet that hard.
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
I simply don't understand why ANYONE would think it a good idea to soft break at 8 ball? I mean, I can sort of understand it, you did it one time and your opponent messed up, earning you a win. Then you just kept on doing it. That's got to be it. What are you going to do when your opponent doesn't make unforced errors, or makes them only rarely? Lose, that's what.

I play blackball sometimes. You know, the english pub game with 7 footers, yellow and red balls instead of stripes and solids, and super tight, rounded pockets. I think that game is the most favourable for tactical play out of all the pool games..yet..At the top level the players are running out seemingly impossible tables. People rarely soft break at that game. Even with world rules (a particularly tactical variant), as long as the players are decent they want to stay at the table. The first shot is the greatest advantage there is to be had in blackball, 8 ball, Chinese 8 ball etc..Selecting the best group will often grant you an easy win, where the other group will have you playing uphill. At blackball, with 3-4 balls on the cushion, you need near super human skills to run out, yet the other group may be easy. Are you seriously going to give your opponent that choice, voluntarily?

Break hard, make balls, or you will be murdered. It's that easy, yet that hard.


Yuuuuuuuup. :)
 

ceebee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Coughing up a soft break, to play a sporty opponent has been around for years. Why break up the rack for some Run Out Artist to win. If you have the skill & patience for a safety game, you just might come out a winner. I'm talking about the entire match, not just the last game. It all depends on the circumstances & your opponent...
 
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