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Help on a shot please
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poolplaya1
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Help on a shot please - 08-01-2016, 12:10 AM

edit - skip to second diagram to see the shot

say you have a ball on the foot spot, where the 1 ball gets racked. Your cue ball is 3 inches up table and 6 inches towards the left rail. You take 3 shots. One with 1 tip of draw. One with one tip of draw and one tip of right. One with one tip of draw and one tip of left. Will the balls hit the rail at the same spot?

Sorry I don't have a table to test this and I wont be at one for awhile. My guess is that the right spin shot will hit the closest to the racking area. The center will hit a few inches up from that, and the left spin will take the ball farthest up the table. Am I right?

The shot speed is medium, just to get the cue ball to the rail plus a foot or two of roll.

Last edited by poolplaya1; 08-01-2016 at 06:46 AM.
  
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08-01-2016, 12:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by poolplaya1 View Post
say you have a ball on the foot spot, where the 1 ball gets racked. Your cue ball is 3 inches up table and 6 inches towards the left rail. You take 3 shots. One with 1 tip of draw. One with one tip of draw and one tip of right. One with one tip of draw and one tip of left. Will the balls hit the rail at the same spot?

Sorry I don't have a table to test this and I wont be at one for awhile. My guess is that the right spin shot will hit the closest to the racking area. The center will hit a few inches up from that, and the left spin will take the ball farthest up the table. Am I right?

The shot speed is medium, just to get the cue ball to the rail plus a foot or two of roll.
draw on paper......take pic...upload or explain better, hard to understand what your asking bud
  
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08-01-2016, 12:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by greyghost View Post
draw on paper......take pic...upload or explain better, hard to understand what your asking bud
sorry, I am not good with words. tying to get an image, one moment




which contact point will hit the rail closest to the racking area?
which contact point will hit the farthest up the rail?

Last edited by poolplaya1; 08-01-2016 at 12:53 AM.
  
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contact point
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contact point - 08-01-2016, 01:21 AM

Bottom slight left

You still have me a little lost


MMike
  
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08-01-2016, 01:44 AM

theres always a little cheat to the pocket......

the can all be sent up table with those tip placements

honestly even with those three tip placements one can get that ball up table.....


look at the tangent line like you have it set up. its to the 3rd diamond about just below the right side pocket.......

so STUN brings you there....cut across to the left side and that same spot on opposite side is about as low as your going to ge the cb to draw too with the low left.....and can get it anywhere above that with the same tip offset, or with the center or low right.....now how far away from that left long rail that you can get away with is another thing.

the draw is much more important for the tip placement than most think and with a light touch you would be surprised when coupled with a accurately placed tip how much you can put on that CB.

experiemnt with 1/2/3 tips id say stick with 2&3.....one tip draw doesn't do much........though one tip of follow has more rotation than that one tip draw.....because of ball weights distrubution in relation to the tip placement.

3 tips draw is of course more than two tips......its the opposite with follow.

like i said though i can and any decent player can draw that ball all the way back to the short rail with any of the tip placements you have shown depending on the speed, none of them need be struck hard, and you will be surprised how "soft" you can hit it and accomplish it via good accuracy.

hope this helps answer your qeustion.

best wishes,
Greyghost

Last edited by greyghost; 08-01-2016 at 01:47 AM.
  
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08-01-2016, 02:19 AM

I will try to be a bit more clear.


  
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08-01-2016, 02:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by poolplaya1 View Post
I will try to be a bit more clear.


no.....decently close maybe give or take but only because your not far away from the rail.
  
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08-01-2016, 03:40 AM

Low inside will go further down table, followed by straight center ball draw, then low outside.

The reason isnt the spin so much, as it is the angle of the cb into the rail after contact. The angle changes based on the required point of aim being different for all 3 shots.

Hope this helps.


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08-01-2016, 04:39 AM

If you are hitting all three shots the same distance on the cb from the bed of the table, but only differing in left and right of vertical center, and, you compensate correctly for squirt and hit the ob in the exact same place all three shots, the cb will hit the rail in the exact same place on all three shots. Left or right won't have a difference until you contact a rail.
  
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08-01-2016, 04:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil View Post
compensate correctly for squirt and hit the ob in the exact same place all three shots,
I should have stated this, but I forgot to mention it.
  
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08-01-2016, 04:52 AM

Spin only changes the balls direction when a ball hits a rail, as most of you know. My thought is that spin also changes the direction of the cueball when it hits the object ball(very slightly). That was the crux of the question here.

thanks for bearing with my poor wording and diagramming skills so far. Thanks for the responses so far. I would love to see a few more answers or thoughts from other people.


Last edited by poolplaya1; 08-01-2016 at 06:12 AM.
  
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08-01-2016, 05:15 AM

I believe the answer is yes, spin changes where the CB hits the rail. However, the difference is very minor, and can probably be ignored. I believe dr Dave covers this on his site somewhere.

There was a thread with a similar topic before. It was when the OB was in front of the side pocket, and the CB was on a scratch angle in that same pocket, if the OB were shot in the corner. The question was, would one type of English be more likely to avoid the scratch.
  
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08-01-2016, 05:20 AM

left /right does not have an effect until it hits the rail
the distance off the tangent line has to do with the amount of draw not spin
(assuming same contact point/tangent line for all shots)
  
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08-01-2016, 05:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by poolplaya1 View Post
Spin only changes the balls direction when a ball hits a rail, as most of you know. My though is that spin also changes the direction of the cueball when it hits the object ball(very slightly). That was the crux of the question here.

thanks for bearing with my poor wording and diagramming skills so far. Thanks for the responses so far. I would love to see a few more answers or thoughts from other people.

It's not as simple as that. You're talking about "throwing" the object ball. So if you have a lot of right in this particular shot, it will throw the object ball to the left. That means you need to hit the object ball fuller to pocket it, and the cue ball will go further up table.

BUT it's highly dependent on the speed you hit and the condition of the balls. If you shoot softly with balls that haven't been freshly cleaned (or if you've just been shooting for a couple of hours), it's quite amazing just how far you can actually throw a ball. If you shoot hard or the balls are slick, the effect goes away to nothing. Done right from the head rail to the foot rail, you can throw a ball almost a full diamond, believe it or not.

Anyhow, it's hard to get enough throw on a ball to really change the path of the cue ball for the kind of angle you're talking about. Where you can use it effectively is if you're almost straight in and you really need to hold up the cue ball because you got just on the wrong side. Then you can shoot soft with a ton of english and hit the object ball a little fuller than normal, effectively getting the cue ball to hold of a bit. That's more how you're typically use it.
  
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08-01-2016, 06:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by john coloccia View Post
It's not as simple as that. You're talking about "throwing" the object ball. So if you have a lot of right in this particular shot, it will throw the object ball to the left. That means you need to hit the object ball fuller to pocket it, and the cue ball will go further up table.

BUT it's highly dependent on the speed you hit and the condition of the balls. If you shoot softly with balls that haven't been freshly cleaned (or if you've just been shooting for a couple of hours), it's quite amazing just how far you can actually throw a ball. If you shoot hard or the balls are slick, the effect goes away to nothing. Done right from the head rail to the foot rail, you can throw a ball almost a full diamond, believe it or not.

Anyhow, it's hard to get enough throw on a ball to really change the path of the cue ball for the kind of angle you're talking about. Where you can use it effectively is if you're almost straight in and you really need to hold up the cue ball because you got just on the wrong side. Then you can shoot soft with a ton of english and hit the object ball a little fuller than normal, effectively getting the cue ball to hold of a bit. That's more how you're typically use it.
I am not talking about throwing the ball at all, thanks for the response though

I am talking about the cue ball after contact with the object ball (same point on the obj ball for each shot)
  
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