Ferrules

I have these for collars. These are not the regular stags. Not gonna say what specie and source b/c they are too expensive already.
They are the hardest as far as I know.
Dick made a great point about the tines as ferrules.
They are not easy to cut and machine. Kinda dangerous too being that close to the band saw blade.

JoeyInCali said:

I have these for collars. These are not the regular stags. Not gonna say what specie and source b/c they are too expensive already.
They are the hardest as far as I know.
Dick made a great point about the tines as ferrules.
They are not easy to cut and machine. Kinda dangerous too being that close to the band saw blade.

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Sheesh Joey, I still haven't sent you those antlers yet ... this weekend I'll try to stay coherent enough to get them out to you. I'll include my amazing bridge head as a special bonus for being patient (I know, you'll believe this when you have it, don't blame ya).

I'm pleased to hear that antler can be used for ferrules, I have quite a batch of them and most are too small for butt caps, some OK for joint rings ... but they all have way more tines than bases

Dave, in Saskatchewan, home to the worlds biggest deers

I've never even thought about using buck antlers as a ferrule. Interesting. I usually take 2 to 4 buck a year hunting and make lamps or other things with the horns. Maybe this year I'll give one to my cue maker and see what it hits like.
I personally haven't tried a whole lot of different ferrules but in what I've had I really prefer the ivory. Gives a really good feel of what I'm doing with the cue ball. My cue maker really likes water buffalo but can't get used to a black ferrule so he still goes with good old ivory.

Personally, I prefer an ivory ferrule myself followed up by IVOR-X. I have also hit with a buckhorn ferrule and liked that quite a bit too. You can get used to anything but the hit with the harder material, I tend to favor.

All of my Buckhorn ferrules are capped. Ivory and Buckhorn play pretty close, Buckhorn is not near as bad about cracking with temp. changes (haven't had a problem with that yet). Most Buckhorn will have some brown spots or streaks, Ivory is all white (with grain). I like the Buckhorn for ferrules...like Ivory only tougher. East Indian Buckhorn is best for ferrules because they fight alot which makes their horns tough.

jaflowers said:

I've never even thought about using buck antlers as a ferrule. Interesting. I usually take 2 to 4 buck a year hunting and make lamps or other things with the horns. Maybe this year I'll give one to my cue maker and see what it hits like.
I personally haven't tried a whole lot of different ferrules but in what I've had I really prefer the ivory. Gives a really good feel of what I'm doing with the cue ball. My cue maker really likes water buffalo but can't get used to a black ferrule so he still goes with good old ivory.

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When you use antlers from KILLED deer, the antler is full of blood. When you cut & polish these, you get a kind of pink & gray swirled look. If you use the antler that have been shead, they are free of any blood & are a white & gray mixed color...JER

Antler, buckhorn or whatever you use.

BLACKHEARTCUES said:

When you use antlers from KILLED deer, the antler is full of blood. When you cut & polish these, you get a kind of pink & gray swirled look. If you use the antler that have been shead, they are free of any blood & are a white & gray mixed color...JER

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Please excuse me but antler only has blood in it while they are growing. By the time they start to fight with them during the rut, the blood is long gone.
The different colors of antler (inside) are caused by what the deer are eating when the antler is growing. Native north American deer (White Tail, Mule and their cousins are very similar and have a lot of marrow in the center. There are a few companies that are raising cousins of the East Indian Stagg in the U.S.,Canada and Europe for meat and getting top dollar for their antlers.
Knife makers end up with most of this supply because it became illegal to export East Indian Stagg from India several years ago. The Stagg is best because it has a lot less marrow and just one big vein up the center.
I learned a lot of this from exhaustive research and 9 years of trial and error.
I'm still learning though because I just (9 months ago) learned of another type whose name will remain undisclosed as I don't want my supply to dry up or go through the roof price wise. Because I use this as the joint material in all my cues I'm sure you'll understand. There is nothing wrong with Whitetail or Mule deer you just have to be very careful when cutting and sizeing. I don't recommend bleaching because it slightly softens it and makes the already relatively large pores a little larger and easier for chalk to get into. As far as hardness goes, as with wood, different types of antler are harder than others but that is another discussion. Generally, it hits a little harder than Ivory but is much more stable than Ivory once it's had a chance to dry properly.
Good luck and I hope this will be some help to those of you that are considering trying buckhorn on your cue.
Kerry Zeiler / Zylr Handcrafted Cues

zylrcue said:

There are a few companies that are raising cousins of the East Indian Stagg in the U.S.,Canada and Europe for meat and getting top dollar for their antlers.
Knife makers end up with most of this supply because it became illegal to export East Indian Stagg from India several years ago. The Stagg is best because it has a lot less marrow and just one big vein up the center.
I learned a lot of this from exhaustive research and 9 years of trial and error.

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Kerry,
That is all very interesting. Do you know if, the East Indian Stag loses its antlers yearly? Are the domesticated ones fed a special diet, to engineer better antlers? What is the main ingredient, responsible for discoloration?

Tracy

I have heard that the buckhorn with the purple/pink streaks through it are due to the animal eating lichens which is a plant that grows on rocks and is very similar to a moss or algae.

1-pocket-player said:

I have heard that the buckhorn with the purple/pink streaks through it are due to the animal eating lichens which is a plant that grows on rocks and is very similar to a moss or algae.

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Most of what I know about the coloration of the antler I learned from numerous knife makers. I've also heard different things such as "Cold weather antler is denser" from another cue maker that has been makeing cues at least 20 years longer than I have. As to whether East Indian Stagg loose their antlers every year, all I can say is that it's illegal to export them and they are by far the most sought after antlers on the planet for knife makers. If they are in fact shed every year then somebody is getting them. But they aren't talking about it because the laws in India are strickly and quickly enforced. I think it became illegal because of poaching. But you know what happens every time a government makes something illegal. The price just goes up and up.

RSB-Refugee said:

Kerry,
That is all very interesting. Do you know if, the East Indian Stag loses its antlers yearly? Are the domesticated ones fed a special diet, to engineer better antlers? What is the main ingredient, responsible for discoloration?

Tracy

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Hi Tracy,
Sorry I forgot to answer your question about feeding the domestic Stagg.
I'm sure they feed them special feeds but it's not for the antler. The meat is the prime product and the antlers are a by product. If you'd like to check for yourself just look up venison (deer meat) and see what they are charging per pound. You won't believe it! Kerry Z.

zylrcue said:

Hi Tracy,
Sorry I forgot to answer your question about feeding the domestic Stagg.
I'm sure they feed them special feeds but it's not for the antler. The meat is the prime product and the antlers are a by product. If you'd like to check for yourself just look up venison (deer meat) and see what they are charging per pound. You won't believe it! Kerry Z.

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Does the grain they feed them take the wild taste out of the meat?

Outside of cuebuilding I've heard of a couple of domestic alternatives to replace sambar. One of them in fact is not even horn. Don't want to mention It here, but If anyone has an idea of what I am talking about and has tryed It, could they please let me know how the hit worked out for them, and which parts they were able to machine from it.

Thanks

Greg C.

Cue Crazy said:

Does the grain they feed them take the wild taste out of the meat?

Outside of cuebuilding I've heard of a couple of domestic alternatives to replace sambar. One of them in fact is not even horn. Don't want to mention It here, but If anyone has an idea of what I am talking about and has tryed It, could they please let me know how the hit worked out for them, and which parts they were able to machine from it.

Thanks

Greg C.

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Hi Greg,
I haven't tasted venison since I was 13 and my daddy shot a Whitetail with a bow and arrow. I didn't like it then because as you say, it's pretty gamey to say the least. I'm told it's an acquired taste. From my experiance, people either really like it or the hate it.
I know it's a simple technicality, but when an animal does't shed them ever, it's called horn. When they shed them (deer), it's called antler. I know it can be confusing especially when people like me call it "buckhorn". And yes, you are right about a couple of cousins of the Sambar that are being raised on ranches in Texas. A few other states actually have them running wild as well. However, if you want the actual Sambar, you can get it now from an East Indian company in Texas that has permission to sell it from their government for a limited time but it's expensive. I just found them in my new issue of "Blade" yesterday. You can find them at www.IndiaSambarStag.com.
You can reach me directly at zylrcue@hotmail.com if you'd like to talk about what I've learned about antler and horn or whatever. Take care and shoot straight. Kerry Z.

Deer does have a different taste than beef. The one thing is that you can't just throw it on the grill like a normal steak. I eat deer year round and have converted people that said they'd never eat it again. You must marinate it, I usually leave it in my favorite marinades for a couple of days in the fridge before cooking. Turns out great. An old indian told me once to try soaking it in apple cider vinager overnight but I haven't had the want to try that yet since what I cook tends to be pretty good. Good luck and eat well.
J

jaflowers said:

Deer does have a different taste than beef. The one thing is that you can't just throw it on the grill like a normal steak. I eat deer year round and have converted people that said they'd never eat it again. You must marinate it, I usually leave it in my favorite marinades for a couple of days in the fridge before cooking. Turns out great. An old indian told me once to try soaking it in apple cider vinager overnight but I haven't had the want to try that yet since what I cook tends to be pretty good. Good luck and eat well.
J

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They are great sundried too. Cut thin slices. Marinade them then sun dry them.
Fry em after that.
Are we talking about ferrules here?

jaflowers said:

Deer does have a different taste than beef. The one thing is that you can't just throw it on the grill like a normal steak. I eat deer year round and have converted people that said they'd never eat it again. You must marinate it, I usually leave it in my favorite marinades for a couple of days in the fridge before cooking. Turns out great. An old indian told me once to try soaking it in apple cider vinager overnight but I haven't had the want to try that yet since what I cook tends to be pretty good. Good luck and eat well.
J

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I think you missed the point of that "soak it in cider" suggestion!

just more hot air!

Sherm

You guys are correct, thin slices, and marinating them for a good while helps alot. They are also pretty good cut in strips, and batter fried. Add some good ol buttermilk hush puppies, and your in bussiness. Not too good for the heart though, but sure taste good.

Those ferrules sure are good eating huh

I like a nice deer roast and what we call a tenderloin. Wrap it in some bacon and grill it after a nice marinade. Delicious.

sorry about getting off topic but hey, what's a good friendly forum for anyway?

zylrcue said:

Hi Greg,
I haven't tasted venison since I was 13 and my daddy shot a Whitetail with a bow and arrow. I didn't like it then because as you say, it's pretty gamey to say the least. I'm told it's an acquired taste. From my experiance, people either really like it or the hate it.
I know it's a simple technicality, but when an animal does't shed them ever, it's called horn. When they shed them (deer), it's called antler. I know it can be confusing especially when people like me call it "buckhorn". And yes, you are right about a couple of cousins of the Sambar that are being raised on ranches in Texas. A few other states actually have them running wild as well. However, if you want the actual Sambar, you can get it now from an East Indian company in Texas that has permission to sell it from their government for a limited time but it's expensive. I just found them in my new issue of "Blade" yesterday. You can find them at www.IndiaSambarStag.com.
You can reach me directly at zylrcue@hotmail.com if you'd like to talk about what I've learned about antler and horn or whatever. Take care and shoot straight. Kerry Z.

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Hey Kerry Thanks, It would be great to talk with someone that's using some of this stuff on a regular basis to discuss some options with. I have alot to learn as to the hardness, durability, and which can be used where in a cue.

Things have been pretty busy around here the last couple of weeks, and keep playing catch-up, but I would love to discuss this with you further, and run some of the research I have found by you.

I sold My last bow over 2 years ago, because I was not hardly ever using It anymore. I use to shoot with My dad when young also, and target practice alot with a buddy for friendly competition in My later years, but the last one I had was just collecting dust, so I sold It. It was a PSE I got deal on. Sold it cheap.

The venison is a aquired taste as you mentioned, I was not always able to eat it when I was young, It just grew On me, altough hardly ever have It anymore.

They are being raised here, but also One of the alternatives I have heard of was not horn nor antler. May not be suitable for ferrules or joints due to the large maro, but might be able to use in inlays. Thanks for the link. I have found a few sources for preban, and the cousins you mentioned, but priced about the same, and limited supply. seems as if another place or 2 I saw has the rights to import also.

Thanks Greg C.