Bergman vs. Deuel at BCAPL National Championships

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gxman

AzB Silver Member
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I think CSI has an agenda to push pool towards Diamond 7ft tables.

Others might enjoy it, but watching pros play on 7ft tables is incredible boring to me.

I had really enjoyed the 2013 U.S Open 8b Final on the 9ft table. Shane vs Biado.

2013 US Open 10b Final Rodney beating Dennis.



Also, the CSI challenge with the Taiwan guy beating Dennis, 9b race to 21, was awesome. Ko beating Shane 10b race to 23(I think) was a great match. Both were on 9ft tables!
 
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jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
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Dimeball said:
I think you're right, the same players that win on the 9'ers win on the bar tables which is not just luck. Players and real fans of pool love pool, doesn't matter the table. High level performance is enjoyable no matter the conditions.
Jay, if you could though, please don't let the loud smacking guy commentate with you. I'm sure he's a great person and all that stuff, but for the love of God.... Ok I'm done.
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The guy you refer to is not part of the commentary team this year. :grin:
 
jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
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gxman said:
I think CSI has an agenda to push pool towards Diamond 7ft tables.

Others might enjoy it, but watching pros play on 7ft tables is incredible boring to me.

I had really enjoyed the 2013 U.S Open 8b Final on the 9ft table. Shane vs Biado.

2013 US Open 10b Final Rodney beating Dennis.



Also, the CSI challenge with the Taiwan guy beating Dennis, 9b race to 21, was awesome. Ko beating Shane 10b race to 23(I think) was a great match. Both were on 9ft tables!
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I've never had this discussion with Ozzy, but to me it's pretty obvious. All the BCA and USA pool leagues are contested on 7' tables (I believe this is correct), so it behooves them to have streamed matches on similar tables to promote their leagues. It might just inspire some players (new and vets) to play more and try harder to excel on these tables. That makes sense to me as a businessman.
 
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Mark Griffin

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9' tables

BeiberLvr,

I'm sure Jay and the rest of the team will do fine in the commentary and production. The precision on a 7' table is more critical than on a 9' table. Some of the matches were very exciting.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but viewership is ALWAYS much higher on 7' than 9' tables. The additional costs is all relative. It's not just the costs of bringing out a few tables, It is having 2 streaming areas, plus thousands of dollars in hanging lights (union town) and limited space. Total impact would probably exceed $10,000. And history has shown the draw is much smaller. It seems the fans of 9' pool are more vocal, but people vote with their wallet, and the numbers are not even close.

Mark Griffin

BeiberLvr said:
I'm sure your commentary will be top notch.

It's real pool for hacks like me, but for these guys it's a walk in the park.

The biggest problem is when you see balls go that would NEVER go on a 9' table.

I doubt it could have been that much more costly or difficult to bring in one 9' table for these challenge matches. Even if it was a little more costly, it would increase the amount of viewers which would likely offset those costs.
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Dimeball

Dimeball

AzB Silver Member
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jay helfert said:
I've never had this discussion with Ozzy, but to me it's pretty obvious. All the BCA and USA pool leagues are contested on 7' tables (I believe this is correct), so it behooves them to have streamed matches on similar tables to promote their leagues. It might just inspire some players (new and vets) to play more and try harder to excel on these tables. That makes sense to me as a businessman.
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Thanks Jay.
I enjoy your old stories in between matches and shots. Keep promoting pool and making things happen, I have played the BCA nationals and yes it was on 7' diamonds and has been for many years.

Mark, good comments as well. One day, all US pool make be on 7' tables, if that is where the money's at why not, I must agree the fans prove it, less this old folks home forum of course. I still love the 9'ers too...
 
dardusm

dardusm

AzB Silver Member
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s0lidz said:
To each his own. Bar table 8 ball is my favorite game to watch.
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I agree that 8-ball on a bar table is much more interesting due to the congestion. Corey has a great imagination and I enjoy watching him wade through the different options on getting out. Rotation on the other hand is much better on the big track.
 
BRussell

BRussell

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jay helfert said:
All the BCA and USA pool leagues are contested on 7' tables (I believe this is correct), so it behooves them to have streamed matches on similar tables to promote their leagues.
Click to expand...



I play on a BCA league that's not on 7-footers. A couple of our locations are 7-ft. but most are larger.

But I'm sure your point is generally true that most leagues in the US are on the smaller tables - maybe Mark has some stats or an estimate on that?

What bothers me is watching the Mosconi Cup or the Atlantic Cup last week with the juniors getting utterly out-classed and wondering about new American players not ever being able to find 9-footers to play on. If all the big organizations like CSI go completely 7-foot, is all American pool going 7-foot, and what does that mean for the future of American pool on the international stage?
 
BeiberLvr

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BRussell said:
I play on a BCA league that's not on 7-footers. A couple of our locations are 7-ft. but most are larger.

But I'm sure your point is generally true that most leagues in the US are on the smaller tables - maybe Mark has some stats or an estimate on that?

What bothers me is watching the Mosconi Cup or the Atlantic Cup last week with the juniors getting utterly out-classed and wondering about new American players not ever being able to find 9-footers to play on. If all the big organizations like CSI go completely 7-foot, is all American pool going 7-foot, and what does that mean for the future of American pool on the international stage?
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This.

Mark thinks he is helping American pool.

He's not.
 
MachineGunKelly

MachineGunKelly

AzB Silver Member
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BeiberLvr said:
I'm sure your commentary will be top notch. For those that can't watch the matches, let me give you a preview of Jay's commentary for them:

Jay: Looks like he has a shot on the 1. Okay, he's probably out from here. Nice out.




It's real pool for hacks like me, but for these guys it's a walk in the park.

The biggest problem is when you see balls go that would NEVER go on a 9' table.

I doubt it could have been that much more costly or difficult to bring in one 9' table for these challenge matches. Even if it was a little more costly, it would increase the amount of viewers which would likely offset those costs.[/QUOT


What ball would go on a 7' diamond that won't go on a 9' diamond if they both have pro cut pockets?
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Teacherman

Teacherman

AzB Silver Member
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I challenge the notion that you have more viewers BECAUSE the tables are 7' instead of 9'.
 
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Mole Eye

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Going out on a limb here, but its hard for me to believe that people watch a streaming event BECAUSE its on a 7 foot table. The people who watch an event on bar boxes will watch it on just about anything. Nothing wrong with that, but lets not kid ourselves. The bigger the table, the more difficult the game.
 
tduncan

tduncan

Bet something...
Silver Member
Mole Eye said:
Going out on a limb here, but its hard for me to believe that people watch a streaming event BECAUSE its on a 7 foot table. The people who watch an event on bar boxes will watch it on just about anything. Nothing wrong with that, but lets not kid ourselves. The bigger the table, the more difficult the game.
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The pros think it's comical from comments made by some of them in the past.
 
couldnthinkof01

couldnthinkof01

AzB Silver Member
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The bar table should be played on by the pros.
Im not sure about mosconi points and such but...

Patterns, the break, strokes used are different and I enjoy to watch it.
 
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Mark Griffin

AzB Gold Member
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I'm not going to get into a big pissing contest with anyone here, but it is common knowledge that 7' events get better coverage than 9'.

TAR had similar stats - which I am sure are available to someone (not me) who knows how to access them. I remember the 10 top matches. I think 9 were on a 7' table. Only one 9' match was in the the top 10 and it featured Efren. In fact, it might have been one where he was in the TAR studio and explained a lot of things.

Bottom line is - we have the numbers. You can believe them or not. But it is estimated that over 90% of American pool is played on smaller tables. It only stands to reason that they would have more viewership.

Why would I lie? My integrity is worth a whole lot more than that.........
Remember, we aren't creating the market for 7' or 9'. We are reacting to what the 'public' has shown they want to watch and to play on.


Mark Griffin
 
BeiberLvr

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mark Griffin said:
I'm not going to get into a big pissing contest with anyone here, but it is common knowledge that 7' events get better coverage than 9'.

TAR had similar stats - which I am sure are available to someone (not me) who knows how to access them. I remember the 10 top matches. I think 9 were on a 7' table. Only one 9' match was in the the top 10 and it featured Efren. In fact, it might have been one where he was in the TAR studio and explained a lot of things.

Bottom line is - we have the numbers. You can believe them or not. But it is estimated that over 90% of American pool is played on smaller tables. It only stands to reason that they would have more viewership.

Why would I lie? My integrity is worth a whole lot more than that.........
Remember, we aren't creating the market for 7' or 9'. We are reacting to what the 'public' has shown they want to watch and to play on.


Mark Griffin
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Forcing Americans to play on 7' tables doesn't help long term against international competition.

If that's okay with you as long as you squeak out a profit, then so be it.
 
mikepage

mikepage

AzB Silver Member
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BeiberLvr said:
Forcing Americans to play on 7' tables doesn't help long term against international competition.

If that's okay with you as long as you squeak out a profit, then so be it.
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The debate about what players want and how best to advance pool long term in North America is a legitimate one, and there is room for many views and for much discussion.

But one thing is clear to me. Mark Griffin has earned better treatment than this.
 
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Mark Griffin

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9' vs 7',

I'll tell what. If you think 9' pool is such a great attraction, why not do some events?

I've been in the pool industry for a lot of years. I grew up on 9' tables. But facts are facts. The amount of pool played on 7' table is MANY times that played on 9' tables.

You make it sound like I am forcing people to play on 7' tables.
I am reacting to the marketplace. Players (by the numbers of entries) clearly show they prefer 7' tables. So I need to have events on 7' tables.

It gets old listening to keyboard quarterbacks. Do you remember when CSI produced the Qlympics? That was in 2007 in Louisville. It was my attempt to get amateurs to play on 9' tables. Financially it was a big flop. I lost $80,000! (And I paid every player every penny on the spot).

So - I tried. Pool showed they didn't want to play on 9' tables. And there it is. You can argue all you want-but as far as I'm concerned, you don't understand the dynamics of pool players in America.

If you ever want to discuss this, I encourage you to call me. But to insinuate it's all about profit really shows you don't know me.

Mark Griffin

BeiberLvr said:
Forcing Americans to play on 7' tables doesn't help long term against international competition.

If that's okay with you as long as you squeak out a profit, then so be it.
Click to expand...
 
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