Does League Play Limit your Potential?

Maniac

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
JC said:
So yes, league play is a complete and total waste of time from a pool standpoint. It's a social event.

It is what it is.:frown:
Click to expand...

Yes, for the most part, leagues in America ARE social events.

I would wager the majority of league teams in America consist of at least three good friends and/or family members. Most teams form because someone has a friend or family member that loves to play pool and puts together a team for a fun night out and end up recruiting at least one other friend or family member.

A league like ShortBusRuss describes above is for serious players, and I'd bet most of them have not a lot of close friends and especially no family members on the team.

Yes....it "is what it is". Personally, I like hanging out in a pool room socializing with family and friends once or twice a week, maybe even getting a few racks of pool in. If anyone has ever read any of my posts concerning league play, then they fully know that I cannot take it seriously, although when I get my chance to play I try to play to the best of my ability.

Maniac
 
Maniac

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
Althair said:
And once a week play a superior player at home, 9-ball (apa) and straight pool to 100. I'm trying to get another player to add a second evening of good competition. I'm only a 5 in both 8-ball and 9-ball but I'm getting better and hope to be a 6 soon.

Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

If I lived close, I would be the "another" player that you seek. I myself wish I had someone come over at least once a week and shoot for a few hours with me.

And....obviously I do not know your age, but I can tell you that I started playing pool when I was 53 years old, started playing APA leagues at 54, went up from a SL3 in both 8 & 9-ball to my current rankings of SL6/7. So, if you have age working in your favor, you have every bit as much chance (even more) of becoming a higher skill level player.

Good luck in reaching your goal. Be sure to set the bar higher every time you reach one.

Maniac
 
strmanglr scott

strmanglr scott

All about Focus
Silver Member
League or tournament play is no time to be practicing. You run what you brung. When it's for money, you play within your game.

Then there's practice. Winning shouldn't be the only goal. I'll lose for an hour if I can improve my game. I used to practice a couple days a week with one of the best players I have ever played, I saw new things and practiced those things I learned.

You try a bank shot you're not sure you can make in competition and miss and your opponent runs out. If the bank was your only shot, maybe a safe would have been better. Do you practice safes though?

I'm a fan of catching mistakes I make and then doing a drill to work on them.

Nobody gets to be great without practicing.

Game day is game day.

Practice time is practice time.
 
CGM

CGM

It'd be a lot cooler if you did.
Silver Member
surffisher2a said:
That is one of my goals to be good enough to be able to competitive in APA masters.
Click to expand...

You will get better faster if you just join and play better players. I learn more from watching good players than I do from anything else.
 
R

rnsbr

Registered
Thank you all for your well rounded and very through comments. I played the APA Masters and enjoyed because I kept playing more than one game at at time. However, it does has is shortcomings and not to mention there is no APA league here in Lincoln NE. I guess if I had to sum my frustration up, I would say that I am unable to keep a rhythm going while I'm sitting in a chair waiting for the team cycle to get back to me. I was the first player last evening and broke and ran out. I was the first player this evening and I broke and ran out. I'm fully capable of stringing even several 8 ball racks together on a bar box, but I lose my concentration earlier than I used to. Back when I was younger and played in the USMC, nothing shook my concentration! I couldn't even tell you that there was music playing in the bar I played in! I just think I get board and the event no longer captures or keeps me intrigued, so I lose or can't keep my concentration at the table, by the end of the evening, I'm frustrated, board, tired, and something I don't want to admit - I'm a little cranky and tend to get upset pretty easily given that I did beat lesser competition. So after I look back at the evening to analyze my play, I am even more disappointed to have given games away to a lot lesser skilled players. Very frustrating to say the least. I am older at 54 and I did quit for about 20 years to raise a family, but never lost the love for the game. So I recently started back up about 2 years ago and I think I play worse now than a year ago? I do need to practice drills more and I realize that's only in my control. I will take everyones advise and I thank all that responded once again for your time and great advise! Kindly, rnsbr.
 
ctyhntr

ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
Many responses on this thread refer to APA. If your only experience with league play is APA 8-ball, then I don't blame you if you have a very skewed view of leagues.

There are at least 3 or more APA territories in my immediate driving area for comparison. One only offers 8-ball, another is Double Jeopardy (8-ball/9-ball, and third offers all the above, plus Masters and Super 30.

Masters is an APA league product targeted at advanced skill players, where everyone plays even up. Super 30 has a team limit of 30 instead of the usual 23. If your local APA operator doesn't offer these league products, then ask.

Playing over a decade in the high quality leagues at Amsterdam Billiards Club in NYC has spoiled my expectations for leagues. They offer leagues targeted at different skill levels, so as I get better I can move up.

Here are some Fargo rating for players in their 14.1 league. These come from players in their highest division.
685
689
738
729
737
658
 
R

RiverCity

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ctyhntr said:
....Playing over a decade in the high quality leagues at Amsterdam Billiards Club in NYC has spoiled my expectations for leagues. They offer leagues targeted at different skill levels, so as I get better I can move up.

Here are some Fargo rating for players in their 14.1 league. These come from players in their highest division.
685
689
738
729
737
658
Click to expand...

Places like NYC have always been hotbeds for strong players. Unless you are in another major hotbed, you are not likely to have THAT strong of a field in the immediate area, much less in ONE league.

I was talking to one of the strongest players in town recently (low 700s) about the strength of the players today compared to 20-25 years ago in this area.

His thoughts were that there were a higher number of strong players here then, than there are now. He asked how many 650+ players did I think were in the area (2 states), and I replied IDK, maybe 30-40. He agreed, then said there used to be double that or better 25 years ago.

A lot of that, he attributed to action, and todays lack thereof. However at that same time, the amateur league scene here has grown huge. Regional tournaments drawing upwards of 2400-2500 entries.

The main room I play at currently just opened the 1st of August. 24 tables. 20 - 7' Diamonds, 4 - 9' Diamonds.

While I personally dont care for the change over to barboxes and predominately league play, it is in fact where most pool is played across the country these days.

So to answer the question of 'does league play limit your potential', I say no.

It might however limit your growth.
 
336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
If it weren't for League Play in bars, Pool would have went pfft and been something we remember. The profits from pool leagues for owners are razor thin unless they have other ways to profit from the people assembled to play pool. Its all about the cost of floor space. .


RiverCity said:
Places like NYC have always been hotbeds for strong players. Unless you are in another major hotbed, you are not likely to have THAT strong of a field in the immediate area, much less in ONE league.

I was talking to one of the strongest players in town recently (low 700s) about the strength of the players today compared to 20-25 years ago in this area.

His thoughts were that there were a higher number of strong players here then, than there are now. He asked how many 650+ players did I think were in the area (2 states), and I replied IDK, maybe 30-40. He agreed, then said there used to be double that or better 25 years ago.

A lot of that, he attributed to action, and todays lack thereof. However at that same time, the amateur league scene here has grown huge. Regional tournaments drawing upwards of 2400-2500 entries.

The main room I play at currently just opened the 1st of August. 24 tables. 20 - 7' Diamonds, 4 - 9' Diamonds.

While I personally dont care for the change over to barboxes and predominately league play, it is in fact where most pool is played across the country these days.

So to answer the question of 'does league play limit your potential', I say no.

It might however limit your growth.
Click to expand...
 
ctyhntr

ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
I know, I've been spoiled by playing league at Amsterdam Billiards. :)

At last night's players' meeting, it was announced that straight pool matches for next Monday have to be re-scheduled because of a film shoot. I asked one of the staffer, and was told over 100 signed up for 14.1 league this season.

RiverCity said:
Places like NYC have always been hotbeds for strong players. Unless you are in another major hotbed, you are not likely to have THAT strong of a field in the immediate area, much less in ONE league.

I was talking to one of the strongest players in town recently (low 700s) about the strength of the players today compared to 20-25 years ago in this area.

His thoughts were that there were a higher number of strong players here then, than there are now. He asked how many 650+ players did I think were in the area (2 states), and I replied IDK, maybe 30-40. He agreed, then said there used to be double that or better 25 years ago.

A lot of that, he attributed to action, and todays lack thereof. However at that same time, the amateur league scene here has grown huge. Regional tournaments drawing upwards of 2400-2500 entries.

The main room I play at currently just opened the 1st of August. 24 tables. 20 - 7' Diamonds, 4 - 9' Diamonds.

While I personally dont care for the change over to barboxes and predominately league play, it is in fact where most pool is played across the country these days.

So to answer the question of 'does league play limit your potential', I say no.

It might however limit your growth.
Click to expand...
 
S

surffisher2a

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CGM said:
You will get better faster if you just join and play better players. I learn more from watching good players than I do from anything else.
Click to expand...

I am just getting started about getting better at pool. I am currently overrated in APA as a 5, I think I am really a 4 but I got a couple easy matches early.

I don't know if all masters leagues are like this, but the leagues in our area are 4 person teams. I would not want to be a drag on someones team knowing I am not good enough (yet) to have a reasonable chance at winning.

I have never played in league before August of this year and only have 5 matches under my belt.
 
S

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Who you play with, the games you play and the equipment you play on (7 vs 9 foot tight pocket tables) in no way influence a player's development.

Think about it.
 
HawaiianEye

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ShortBusRuss said:
Reading this thread is a little depressing. All references to "league", as far as I can tell have been referring to "American" leagues, like APA... And advice is forthcoming about how to improve, using (American) league as the avenue, and people seem to be sympathetic.

And here I am in Germany, a member of the German league system, and it literally has none of the issues of most leagues in the U.S. If you suck... you play "Kreisliga", against other people in the same general skill level. Fail to field a team for a scheduled match? Your club gets fined like 500 Euro. For that single match. Massive peer pressure for people to commit to the team for the season, and to show up for scheduled matches.

And Germans take it SERIOUSLY. I rarely see an alcoholic beverage consumed before the match concludes. If your club is short on a higher level league team, and one is asked to "step up" to the next level to help out the club, the Germans still expect you to practice.

All the problems with leagues in the U.S. basically come back to the same thing: We see it as a "game", whereas the other countries see it as a sport. So, choices are basically, play for fun, and hang out with friends, or unless you are in an area with very very strong barbox players who maybe play BCA, your best option is to play tournaments. Full disclosure: I moved to Germany from Colorado state, which has very strong barbox players, and the vast majority of them play BCA. For me personally, I would probably only play BCA, if I were trying to improve. That being said, I had a 7 foot Diamond in CO, and simply never really practiced on it. Just not challenging enough.

It is our lack of taking the game seriously in the way the Germans do, that allows league setups like the APA to exist. Hokey handicap system designed purely to drive more teams, with no consideration of encouraging players to improve. There are no "tiers" to graduate to in American pool, unless you play BCA and go to nationals. The secret of improvement, as others have stated above, you improve by playing better players, and getting your head beat in. And taking that beating seriously enough to practice hard for.
Click to expand...

I'm on the bus with Russ on this one.

I haven't seen a thing in APA that would enhance anybody's skills.
 
BC21

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
rnsbr said:
Hello, Just asking for some thoughts on league play. Once you reach an advance level, I would like to know some thoughts on how league 8 Ball may or may not help your game. I have felt for a while now that I have limited my advancement in this game as all we do is play one night a week as a team each of us just awaiting our turn every 20 minutes or so. I never played this way when I was younger and I played pretty well. Now after a hiatus of about 20 years the league sounded pretty attractive, but now I don't see myself getting any better, if anything, I played better before I joined the league. All comments pro/con are certainly welcome. Thanks!
Click to expand...


Do you only get out to play pool one night a week?

If so, and you want to improve your game, quit the league and spend that time (that one night per week) in a poolhall. You need to play more.

If you enjoy the league but really want to play better, then pick up another night or two for practicing and playing more pool.
 
CGM

CGM

It'd be a lot cooler if you did.
Silver Member
surffisher2a said:
I am just getting started about getting better at pool. I am currently overrated in APA as a 5, I think I am really a 4 but I got a couple easy matches early.

I don't know if all masters leagues are like this, but the leagues in our area are 4 person teams. I would not want to be a drag on someones team knowing I am not good enough (yet) to have a reasonable chance at winning.

I have never played in league before August of this year and only have 5 matches under my belt.
Click to expand...
Enter some cheap tournaments. There is usually a wide range of skill levels in local cheap tourneys. Its a good way to gauge your true skill level.
 
D

ddg45

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
rnsbr said:
Hello, Just asking for some thoughts on league play. Once you reach an advance level, I would like to know some thoughts on how league 8 Ball may or may not help your game. I have felt for a while now that I have limited my advancement in this game as all we do is play one night a week as a team each of us just awaiting our turn every 20 minutes or so. I never played this way when I was younger and I played pretty well. Now after a hiatus of about 20 years the league sounded pretty attractive, but now I don't see myself getting any better, if anything, I played better before I joined the league. All comments pro/con are certainly welcome. Thanks!
Click to expand...
I enjoy league play but I agree with your point that there's a lot of sitting around which isn't productive. If you're an advanced player look around for Master's leagues and non-league tournaments. In Charleston SC there are a couple pool halls that have money tournaments every week and that brings out some of the best players in the city, so look for something like that. Good luck!
 
hang-the-9

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
rnsbr said:
Hello, Just asking for some thoughts on league play. Once you reach an advance level, I would like to know some thoughts on how league 8 Ball may or may not help your game. I have felt for a while now that I have limited my advancement in this game as all we do is play one night a week as a team each of us just awaiting our turn every 20 minutes or so. I never played this way when I was younger and I played pretty well. Now after a hiatus of about 20 years the league sounded pretty attractive, but now I don't see myself getting any better, if anything, I played better before I joined the league. All comments pro/con are certainly welcome. Thanks!
Click to expand...

I don't think I have met a really good player that was knowledgeable that only played in leagues. The way many league players win their matches is to use the handicap to beat people not from actually beating them with better play. And by better play I mean overall, shooting skill, position ability, strategy (pattern play is in that also, as well as safety play).

Since they are basically given games, very very few league players improve much. In fact, I have had league players ask me in amazement "why would you want to get better, then you have to win more games?". That is very :rolleyes::eek::confused: to me.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top