Dual Break Balls
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Dual Break Balls - 03-13-2018, 05:40 PM

OK, so I felt bad (just a little) about the two purple balls (as should we all).

Just a tad more seriously, I have oft heard that it is not a bad strategy to leave yourself two break balls of your last three balls on the table. So my question is, given traditional side of the rack break balls: where then is the bestest spot to leave the "two break shot" key ball and the CB.

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03-13-2018, 06:08 PM

I would say in an ideal world the third ball and the cue ball would be anywhere that you could get a stop-stop end pattern leaving the cue ball with the traditional angle on the side break shot.

Then again I have 2 purple balls and anything I say at this moment is suspect.


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03-13-2018, 06:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
OK, so I felt bad (just a little) about the two purple balls (as should we all).

Just a tad more seriously, I have oft heard that it is not a bad strategy to leave yourself two break balls of your last three balls on the table. So my question is, given traditional side of the rack break balls: where then is the bestest spot to leave the "two break shot" key ball and the CB.

https://pad.chalkysticks.com/27cd1.png

Lou Figueroa
I like to have the 6 (wrong side ball) closer to the side cushion with the intent of getting a thin cut on it so I don't have to stretch. Usually I don't achieve that ideal.

For the key ball one thing that works OK is to have a ball near the cushion even with the break ball.


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03-14-2018, 06:10 AM

Yes, I get what you guys are saying.

But more precisely I was asking: since you've left two break balls, do you play position for one or the other OR do you play to a spot that could potentially give you a choice of either and if so where would that spot be?

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03-14-2018, 09:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
Yes, I get what you guys are saying.

But more precisely I was asking: since you've left two break balls, do you play position for one or the other OR do you play to a spot that could potentially give you a choice of either and if so where would that spot be?

Lou Figueroa
To coin a famous philosopher who frequents these parts, "I dan't get it."

Is it really a good practice to leave two break balls and a third key ball as your last 3? I can see saving both break balls down to your last 5 or so, but whenever I've tried to do this it seems like committing to one or the other a little earlier in the end game makes for a better end pattern. Of course having nothing left but the two break balls and a cue ball is not an ideal situation.


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03-14-2018, 10:04 AM

Just like the saying in football if you have two starting quarterbacks you don't have a quarterback.

If you have two break balls and play position to keep both in play, something will go wrong. Best to make a decision earlier and live with it.

JMHO

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
Yes, I get what you guys are saying.

But more precisely I was asking: since you've left two break balls, do you play position for one or the other OR do you play to a spot that could potentially give you a choice of either and if so where would that spot be?

Lou Figueroa


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03-14-2018, 10:23 AM

I watched a John Schmidt video when he said leaving this situation and the end of a rack was perfectly fine. He said to think of both of these balls as “helpers” to each other in terms of getting out effectively.

Basically he played the key ball so that the CB ended up at center table. You then have your choice of which ball to make in its own corner, with the cueball coming two rails and out back near center table to get a good angle for the breakshot on the last ball.

I’ve played this pattern often and there is good room to control the speed and get nice angle.
  
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03-15-2018, 05:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan White View Post
To coin a famous philosopher who frequents these parts, "I dan't get it."

Is it really a good practice to leave two break balls and a third key ball as your last 3? I can see saving both break balls down to your last 5 or so, but whenever I've tried to do this it seems like committing to one or the other a little earlier in the end game makes for a better end pattern. Of course having nothing left but the two break balls and a cue ball is not an ideal situation.

I think the idea of dual break balls takes into consideration that none of us play perfect position. Yes, in a perfect world we're all playing stop-stop-stop but usually it's not like that. So with two break balls, if you get out of line on one, you perhaps have the other as a better option.

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03-15-2018, 05:49 AM

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Originally Posted by Tony_in_MD View Post
Just like the saying in football if you have two starting quarterbacks you don't have a quarterback.

If you have two break balls and play position to keep both in play, something will go wrong. Best to make a decision earlier and live with it.

JMHO

I get what you're saying but your analogy is maybe not so good. There is absolutely no reason leaving two break balls has to go bad.

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03-15-2018, 05:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danimal View Post
I watched a John Schmidt video when he said leaving this situation and the end of a rack was perfectly fine. He said to think of both of these balls as “helpers” to each other in terms of getting out effectively.

Basically he played the key ball so that the CB ended up at center table. You then have your choice of which ball to make in its own corner, with the cueball coming two rails and out back near center table to get a good angle for the breakshot on the last ball.

I’ve played this pattern often and there is good room to control the speed and get nice angle.

ah, someone gets it.

I recall seeing the video you're speaking of and I also think we discussed this concept back on RSB. Perhaps it was Blackjack who brought it up?

As to the pattern at hand, yes, there are numerous ways to get into final break ball position. I was just wondering if anyone had a favored position. Lately I've been trying a slightly off center mid-table position and that seems pretty good. Depending on what angle you get you can draw straight back, go one rail, or go two.

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03-16-2018, 08:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
ah, someone gets it.

I recall seeing the video you're speaking of and I also think we discussed this concept back on RSB. Perhaps it was Blackjack who brought it up?

As to the pattern at hand, yes, there are numerous ways to get into final break ball position. I was just wondering if anyone had a favored position. Lately I've been trying a slightly off center mid-table position and that seems pretty good. Depending on what angle you get you can draw straight back, go one rail, or go two.

Lou Figueroa
In that situation, you have natural 2 rail position, depending which way you want to go. Captain Obvious says, "It all depends on your cue ball position as to WHICH way you choose to go."

I believe that in the video that is being referred to, John Schmidt credits Danny DiLiberto with showing him how easy this is ... you leave two break balls and use one as a key ball - just come 2 rails to center - or just short of center - to line up with the break ball. It is very simple - and it is a smart thing to do if you have the luxury of having 2 break balls.

When you have these 2 balls remaining in this position, you have many different options. Set the balls up like this and play around with it for it a while and try to learn ALL of them. You will only see the options and the opportunities that you are aware of, so it is best to take the time to familiarize yourself with these unique and different situations - that way when they come up - you know which way to go ... and WHY.



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03-17-2018, 07:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack View Post
In that situation, you have natural 2 rail position, depending which way you want to go. Captain Obvious says, "It all depends on your cue ball position as to WHICH way you choose to go."

I believe that in the video that is being referred to, John Schmidt credits Danny DiLiberto with showing him how easy this is ... you leave two break balls and use one as a key ball - just come 2 rails to center - or just short of center - to line up with the break ball. It is very simple - and it is a smart thing to do if you have the luxury of having 2 break balls.

When you have these 2 balls remaining in this position, you have many different options. Set the balls up like this and play around with it for it a while and try to learn ALL of them. You will only see the options and the opportunities that you are aware of, so it is best to take the time to familiarize yourself with these unique and different situations - that way when they come up - you know which way to go ... and WHY.


I'm finding the dual break ball thing works pretty good IF you familiarize yourself with the strokes necessary for the options that seem to repeatedly come up, like going two rails. Once you get the hang of them they're nice and easy to play.

Then of course, if you really goof things up, you can use one of the balls as a side pocket break ball.

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