Stick on table for alignment

MattPoland · Mar 10, 2020

TommyT said:
What's wrong with playing by the rules ?

Depending on the circumstance it can get you a reputation as a nit.

For example, I was watching two guys play 9-ball (call 9) in a tournament. Player 1 says “Somebody is making the 9!” It was obvious where and how. The CB would carom off the object ball towards the 9 which was a good foot from the pocket. Player 1 then says “Shoot, I’m not making that 9.” He then takes the shot and makes the 9. Player 2 jumps up “Whoa, whoa, whoa! You didn’t call the 9. You said you’re NOT making the 9. The rules say you gotta call the 9. You gotta watch what you say and how you say it.” Yada yada yada....

If you need to rely on rules lawyering instead of letting your game speak for itself, you’ll get a reputation as someone people don’t want to be around. The game is fun and the rules exist for a reason. If you abuse those rules to take the fun and fairness out of the game, you might not be wrong but it’ll come at a cost.

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fastone371 · Mar 10, 2020

TommyT said:
What's wrong with playing by the rules ?

Nothing wrong with "playing by the rules", the problem comes in when a players strategy is to win by said player looking for a victory in the rule book, ie: player didnt call the game ball even though it was in the jaws, after pocketing game ball he grabs the cue ball from the center of the table before cue ball "settled", etc.

KRJ · Mar 10, 2020

garczar said:
Maybe for a complete beginner. In 40yrs of playing i've seen very few using this method. Never heard it recommended either. Just my take on this.

Wannt bet I can pull video of several professional players using their cue to line up a shot, to kick a shot, to bank a shot, etc etc. ?

Heck, lets say a dozen just for kicks and giggles.

PS: Nobody said to lay the cue on the table and "let go" of the cue, just to line up a shot, you hold the butt on the cue while doing it.

I've seen dozens of pro's do this. Not on all shots, but they have don't it on certain shots. So, it can't be all bad.

Plus, for newer players, its good on all shots to get use to lining up correctly. Dude, the way you play is not the same for everyone else.

KRJ · Mar 10, 2020

MattPoland said:
I would never call foul for laying the stick in the table whether measuring a bank or a contact point. Even if it theoretically marks the table.

Because...

1) I’m not trying to get ball in hand from my opponent through nitty rule-based ways

2) Using those kinds of techniques won’t guarantee the shot even if it does help some

3) Players that tend to over rely on those techniques won’t stand up to a player that has the skills ingrained into their natural repertoire.

But if they overdue it to the point of slowing down the game significantly, I may directly address their slow play.

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That's because it's NOT a foul using your cue to line up a shot. But, by all means, I'll tell Alex and the rest of the pro's you said they need to practice more and get off the crutches. Must be nice to play top level like everyone on AZB that see every angle perfectly. OMG

MattPoland · Mar 10, 2020

ChicagoRJ said:
That's because it's NOT a foul using your cue to line up a shot. But, by all means, I'll tell Alex and the rest of the pro's you said they need to practice more and get off the crouches. Must be nice to play top level like you that you see every angle perfectly. OMG

My participation in this conversation has been regarding people that feel like they need to do that on every shot to even find a simple cut angle for a cueball shot directly at an object ball. Specifically people that do things like start with their tip on the felt half a ball from the object ball and then pivot around to find the shooting line.

I’m not criticizing the use of a stick to get a feel for a bank or kick. Which still, you shouldn’t need for every bank and every kick.

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garczar · Mar 10, 2020

ChicagoRJ said:
Wannt bet I can pull video of several professional players using their cue to line up a shot, to kick a shot, to bank a shot, etc etc. ?

Heck, lets say a dozen just for kicks and giggles.

PS: Nobody said to lay the cue on the table and "let go" of the cue, just to line up a shot, you hold the butt on the cue while doing it.

I've seen dozens of pro's do this. Not on all shots, but they have don't it on certain shots. So, it can't be all bad.

Plus, for newer players, its good on all shots to get use to lining up correctly. Dude, the way you play is not the same for everyone else.

Question since you're in the fancy chalk business(i like Magic btw): Do you consider chalk "equipment"? If so how is it illegal to use chalk as an aiming aid but ok to use cue as one? IMO NEITHER one should be used as an aiming aid. Touching cloth with one's cue, to me anyway, is no different than placing a cube of chalk to aid in kicking/banking. Again, i don't write the rules and this is simply my $.02 worth.

buckshotshoey · Mar 10, 2020

garczar said:
Question since you're in the fancy chalk business(i like Magic btw): Do you consider chalk "equipment"? If so how is it illegal to use chalk as an aiming aid but ok to use cue as one? IMO NEITHER one should be used as an aiming aid. Touching cloth with one's cue, to me anyway, is no different than placing a cube of chalk to aid in kicking/banking. Again, i don't write the rules and this is simply my $.02 worth.

Just for example, In APA, unless it has changed recently, it is legal to place a cube of chalk on the rail as an aiming point. In BCA, it is not. Just play the rules. If you dont like certain rules, just dont participate. It really is that simple.

garczar · Mar 10, 2020

buckshotshoey said:
Just for example, In APA, unless it has changed recently, it is legal to place a cube of chalk on the rail as an aiming point. In BCA, it is not. Just play the rules. If you dont like certain rules, just dont participate. It really is that simple.

Its always been illegal to use chalk as aiming aid. I really don't care what APA has to say. I wouldn't get out out of the electric-chair to play APA league pool. All MAJOR pool events world-wide don't allow it.

buckshotshoey · Mar 10, 2020

garczar said:
Its always been illegal to use chalk as aiming aid. I really don't care what APA has to say. I wouldn't get out out of the electric-chair to play APA league pool. All MAJOR pool events world-wide don't allow it.

All I did is point out a situation where it is perfectly legal. What you did is make a blanket statement stating it's illegal everywhere. Well it's not. If you don't like APA, fine. Don't play in it. You just made it a point of personal opinion. Not fact.

garczar · Mar 10, 2020

buckshotshoey said:
All I did is point out didn't some situation it is perfectly legal. What you did is make a blanket statement stating it's illegal everywhere. Well it's not. If you don't like APA, fine. Don't play in it. You just made it a point of personal opinion. Not fact.

Never played one game of APA pool. The fact that they allow it just re-enforces my opinion on them. Is this the same outfit that counts balls made in 9ball? Equalizer? Whatever.

buckshotshoey · Mar 10, 2020

garczar said:
Never played one game of APA pool. The fact that they allow it just re-enforces my opinion on them. Is this the same outfit that counts balls made in 9ball? Equalizer? Whatever.

It works well for less experienced players. I can coach a player and put a chalk on the wooden rail. But we can all have the same discussion on coaching. Ooops. Wait a minute. I think that's been done here. And the APA bashing that goes with it.

KRJ · Mar 10, 2020

MattPoland said:
My participation in this conversation has been regarding people that feel like they need to do that on every shot to even find a simple cut angle for a cueball shot directly at an object ball. Specifically people that do things like start with their tip on the felt half a ball from the object ball and then pivot around to find the shooting line.

I’m not criticizing the use of a stick to get a feel for a bank or kick. Which still, you shouldn’t need for every bank and every kick.

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And for some folks, they do. Big deal. If they are doing it on every cut shot, they can do it rather quickly since they have got it down to a routine. I've seen them. They take less time than someone doing their 12 practice strokes.

The slowest players on the planet are NOT the ones using their cues for alignment purposes... trust me, I play against them every week in league

skip100 · Mar 10, 2020

Do you really want to be this guy, except on the pool table?

garczar · Mar 10, 2020

skip100 said:
Do you really want to be this guy, except on the pool table?

Niiiiiiiice. That's funny.

MattPoland · Mar 10, 2020

ChicagoRJ said:
And for some folks, they do. Big deal. If they are doing it on every cut shot, they can do it rather quickly since they have got it down to a routine. I've seen them. They take less time than someone doing their 12 practice strokes.

The slowest players on the planet are NOT the ones using their cues for alignment purposes... trust me, I play against them every week in league

I agree. Like I said, I wouldn’t call a marking foul just because someone’s tip hit the felt. I would call someone on slow play if they overdo it to the point of actually being slow and I’d definitely call slow play on someone forever stroking like you’re describing.

I’m not worried about what other players do in general. But I think there are some “techniques” people rely on that really just prevent them from developing and trusting their more natural abilities.

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Snooker Theory · Mar 10, 2020

skip100 said:
Do you really want to be this guy, except on the pool table?

I mean it works for Ernie Els, he jumped to fourth in putting after switching. It's really up to the PGA, and they say it's ok.

jrctherake · Mar 10, 2020

If you opponent is kicking your a55.....it's not because they are touching the table with their cue or sitting the chalk on the rail.

If they are beating your a55, it's most definitely because they:

Have a more solid PSR
better pattern play
etc...etc......etc

If I'm gambling with someone, I expect them to say "I don't want jump cues to be allowed" before we start, not half way through the set.

On the other hand, If playing for funnzies I am more out to worry about such things.

In the end, it's usually the weaker player's that worry about such things.

Jeff

skip100 · Mar 10, 2020

Was Els doing that this weekend when he won?

Snooker Theory · Mar 10, 2020

skip100 said:
Was Els doing that this weekend when he won?

I only watched a little of the Hoag classic, but yes, when I watched he was using the bloodline putter(the standup putter pictured) during the event.
To better clarify in regards to your question, I don't know what % of shots he uses the standup feature, just that I saw he was using that particular putter during the event.

skip100 · Mar 10, 2020

Snooker Theory said:
I only watched a little of the Hoag classic, but yes, when I watched he was using the bloodline putter(the standup putter pictured) during the event.
To better clarify in regards to your question, I don't know what % of shots he uses the standup feature, just that I saw he was using that particular putter during the event.

Well, you learn something every day.

I doubt he was using the alignment feature much but he has been spotted doing it at tournaments before.

Stick on table for alignment

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