Will this shutdown finish off most pool halls in the US?

336Robin said:

Yeah. I had a poll a couple weeks ago. Asked if people were willing to throw
in $10 bucks a year into a pro tour. Not many takers. How do you glorify a sport that has no support?

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This just isn't the way the world works.

Businesses on the brink of failure do not typically look to their customers to save them. Not even the most credible of companies can do that. If one were asked what was the soundest company in America twenty five years ago, one might well have answered either General Motors or IBM. That said, when General Motors defaulted on its bonds, circa 2008, it did not look to its customers for a bailout. Things just don't work that way.

If your definition of support for an industry is tied to the willingness of loyal consumers to bail out an enterprise that is suffering through hard times, then there isn't much support for business in America.

Businesses that rely on the presence of consumers that are willing to dish out money and get less, or even nothing, in return are called charities.

sjm said:

This just isn't the way the world works.

Businesses on the brink of failure do not typically look to its customers to save. Not even the most credible of companies can do that. If one were asked what was the soundest company in America twenty five years ago, one might well have answered either General Motors or IBM. That said, when General Motors defaulted on its bonds, circa 2008, it did not look to its customers for a bailout. Things just don't work that way.

If your definition of support for an industry is tied to the willingness of loyal consumers to bail out an enterprise that is suffering through hard times, then there isn't much support for business in America.

Businesses that rely on the presence of consumers that are willing to dish out money and get less, or even nothing, in return are called charities.

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Good post, Stu.

Maniac

sjm said:

This just isn't the way the world works.

Businesses on the brink of failure do not typically look to its customers to save. Not even the most credible of companies can do that. If one were asked what was the soundest company in America twenty five years ago, one might well have answered either General Motors or IBM. That said, when General Motors defaulted on its bonds, circa 2008, it did not look to its customers for a bailout. Things just don't work that way.

If your definition of support for an industry is tied to the willingness of loyal consumers to bail out an enterprise that is suffering through hard times, then there isn't much support for business in America.

Businesses that rely on the presence of consumers that are willing to dish out money and get less, or even nothing, in return are called charities.

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Agree 100%. IMO that $10 deal is pure folly. The only thing that will support a pro tour is big $$$. Matchroom has been using on-line betting for years to back snooker and darts. They also get some decent tv money in the Euro market. What's the line from "The Right Stuff"? "No bucks, no Buck Rogers". The worlwide economy is gonna go thru a short, steep recession due the virus also. Pool will be waaaay down on most sponsor/advertiser's minds for a while.

Great Post Stu and thank you so much for spelling it out succinctly and to the point.

The Anonymous Poll I created was meant to be the first of more polls to come which will reflect changes each time.

What am I out to accomplish? Education.

This first poll proves that good intentions are wonderful but shouldn't be considered a
substitute for content. Pro Pool hasn't provided a service to an audience of would be
supporters for a very long time before now.

I hope that subsequent changes in the polls will reflect a higher level of support.

If one were to make a change in Pool to give it a new lease you would think that the
ideal place for that to occur would be at the grassroots level. That would generally
be true except at the grassroots level there is very little to work with. Perhaps
something of value will be learned or perhaps we just end up with a spiffy new
poll to take.

I hope that you are doing well in NYC as this debacle unfolds.

sjm said:

This just isn't the way the world works.

Businesses on the brink of failure do not typically look to its customers to save. Not even the most credible of companies can do that. If one were asked what was the soundest company in America twenty five years ago, one might well have answered either General Motors or IBM. That said, when General Motors defaulted on its bonds, circa 2008, it did not look to its customers for a bailout. Things just don't work that way.

If your definition of support for an industry is tied to the willingness of loyal consumers to bail out an enterprise that is suffering through hard times, then there isn't much support for business in America.

Businesses that rely on the presence of consumers that are willing to dish out money and get less, or even nothing, in return are called charities.

Click to expand...

336Robin said:

If one were to make a change in Pool to give it a new lease you would think that the ideal place for that to occur would be at the grassroots level. That would generally be true except at the grassroots level there is very little to work with.

I hope that you are doing well in NYC as this debacle unfolds.

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Well said, my friend.

I liked and participated in your poll and the ensuing discussion was both civil and enlightening.

You've hit the nail on the head here, for it is at the grassroots level where loyalty and appreciation for pool are derived.

In America, it seems every kid plays baseball, even most of the girls. Hence, most grow up with an appreciation for just how difficult it is to hit a ball that is moving toward one. That's why so many grow up appreciating those who play major league baseball and watch them so often. The schools and little leagues offer the grassroots programs on which baseball is and has always been built in America, and that's why interest in the sport at the highest level has been so sustainable.

Pool lacks the grassroots programs. We all admire the efforts of those who run leagues and to those that have tried to introduce pool to the education system. We all applaud Mark Wilson for the shining example he set, and we all admire those who make league play so accessible to so many, but American kids are growing up without pool. That's what has to change.

Thanks for your kind thoughts, Robin. Be safe and be well, and let's hope we get to the other side of these very trying times.

I have 3 within 7 miles. 1 with @10 Diamonds other 2 with @15 GC. Not sure how they make it. Not a real big city either. All been open for over 15yrs.

I haven't been since i picked up my Diamond 3yrs ago.

In an odd way it could help those pool halls and sports bars that are more viable.

In hard times consumers shy away from large ticket activities or items but can still have enough cash for modest ones. This is what happened in the 1930s. Hollywood flourished as did professional sports. The average guy might not have enough money to buy a car but had enough to buy a bus ticket and entrance to a ball game.

After this is over, someone might not take that vacation to Paris or buy a new truck but he might have $25 in his pocket to go play pool and have a beer.

sjm said:

This just isn't the way the world works.

Businesses on the brink of failure do not typically look to their customers to save them. Not even the most credible of companies can do that. If one were asked what was the soundest company in America twenty five years ago, one might well have answered either General Motors or IBM. That said, when General Motors defaulted on its bonds, circa 2008, it did not look to its customers for a bailout. Things just don't work that way.

If your definition of support for an industry is tied to the willingness of loyal consumers to bail out an enterprise that is suffering through hard times, then there isn't much support for business in America.

Businesses that rely on the presence of consumers that are willing to dish out money and get less, or even nothing, in return are called charities.

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Or a church.

Geosnooker said:

In an odd way it could help those pool halls and sports bars that are more viable.

In hard times consumers shy away from large ticket activities or items but can still have enough cash for modest ones. This is what happened in the 1930s. Hollywood flourished as did professional sports. The average guy might not have enough money to buy a car but had enough to buy a bus ticket and entrance to a ball game.

After this is over, someone might not take that vacation to Paris or buy a new truck but he might have $25 in his pocket to go play pool and have a beer.

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And if your local pool room is shutdown because it is not government approved?

duckie said:

And if your local pool room is shutdown because it is not government approved?

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HUH??? What poolroom would be considered "gov't approved"? The sad fact is that those without some savings built up will probably not survive. So many operate on almost a week-by-week level of existence as it is. There will be opportunities for others with funds and/or their own building to enter the market. Pool will survive but the landscape is gonna look different for sure. I can't wait to get out and start supporting the game again but right now i've got way bigger fish to fry.

garczar said:

HUH??? What poolroom would be considered "gov't approved"? The sad fact is that those without some savings built up will probably not survive. So many operate on almost a week-by-week level of existence as it is. There will be opportunities for others with funds and/or their own building to enter the market. Pool will survive but the landscape is gonna look different for sure. I can't wait to get out and start supporting the game again but right now i've got way bigger fish to fry.

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Edges and California Billiards are shutdown because the local government does not consider them essential......ie government approved.

One in San Jose stayed open after the shutdown notice and was forced to close by the police......because of not being government approved.

And no time frame as to when they can open.

duckie said:

Edges and California Billiards are shutdown because the local government does not consider them essential......ie government approved.

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Why would any room be open now? Talk about reckless endangerment. Common sense tells you they have to close.

duckie said:

Edges and California Billiards are shutdown because the local government does not consider them essential......ie government approved.

One in San Jose stayed open after the shutdown notice and was forced to close by the police......because of not being government approved.

And no time frame as to when they can open.

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No poolroom is essential. We're talking about a game played indoors during a highly contagious viral epidemic. WTF???

336Robin said:

Yeah. I had a poll a couple weeks ago. Asked if people were willing to throw
in $10 bucks a year into a pro tour. Not many takers. How do you glorify a sport that has no support?

Click to expand...

I play with about 90 people in three unaffiliated get togethers. Not sure anyone cares about glorifying a sport,. We socialize and have fun. Likely
50 of the 90 are female...including my wife.

I doubt if more than 2 or 3 could name a pro player. We enjoy playing, not watching. Some of us also play ball hockey and slow-pitch together. We don’t need a pro level in any of these activities. No desire to pay $10 to watch someone play pool anymore than $10 watch someone fish when I’d rather be fishing myself.

When the virus crisis is over, we’ll all return to playing at the pool hall and the sports bar where we get together. It’s nice that others like a pro level but I find pro pool as a exciting to watch as the oft quoted paint drying.

In other words. They can pay me the $10.

garczar said:

No poolroom is essential. We're talking about a game played indoors during a highly contagious viral epidemic. WTF???

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You’ve drank the Koolaid.........
Bought the media hype.

People are looking at numbers without putting them in the proper context which leads to this type of wrong reasoning. Like did you know that the total cases are only .03% of the US population of 327,000,000. The percent of those with the flu is higher.

But without put in proper context, you really can not make a informed opinion.

And because they are closed......there is no way to support them like was suggested to the post I replied.

And to me they are essential regardless to what the government states.

duckie said:

You’ve drank the Koolaid.........
Bought the media hype.

People are looking at numbers with putting them in the proper context which leads to this type of wrong reasoning.

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And you need a drink or two!

9 Ball Fan said:

I've gotta believe it will.

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If there is a demand someone will reopen them or open new ones.

Here's a very brief synopsis of the benefits to small business. The main point for pool halls is forgivable loans to cover rent and payroll. It will probably take months for banks to administer.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-what-the-historic-2-trillion-coronavirus-stimulus-package-will-do-to-help-small-businesses-2020-03-26


• A $350 billion forgivable loan program designed to ensure that small businesses do not lay off employees

• A 50% refundable payroll tax credit on worker wages will further incentivize businesses, including ones with fewer than 500 employees, to retain workers

• Looser net operating loss-reduction rules that will allow businesses to offset more

• A delay in employer-side payroll taxes for Social Security until 2021 and 2022

• Sole proprietors and other self-employed workers could be eligible for the expanded unemployment-insurance benefits the bill provides

• A portion of the $425 billion in funds appropriated for the Federal Reserve’s credit facilities will target small businesses

How does the $350 billion small-business loan program work?
The Small Business Administration, under the stimulus package, will oversee the Paycheck Protection Program, which will distribute $350 billion to small businesses that can be partially forgiven if the companies meet certain requirements. The loans will be available to companies with 500 or fewer employees.

“The SBA loans strike a balance between loans on favorable terms and grants by providing forgiveness to firms that use loaned funds for payroll, rent, mortgage interest, and utility payments,” said Garrett Watson, senior policy analyst at the Tax Foundation, a Washington, D.C.-based think tank.

This ensures that the firms “have skin in the game” while also giving businesses a better chance at surviving the pandemic, he said.

Loans will be administered by banks and other lenders, which American Enterprise Institute resident scholar Stan Veuger said “will hopefully speed up the process.”

Businesses can receive loans up to $10 million, based on how much the company paid its employees between Jan. 1 and Feb. 29. The loans will carry an interest rate up to 4%. The bill provides for an expedited origination process.

If the business uses the loan funds for the approved purposes and maintains the average size of its full-time workforce based on when it received the loan, the principal of the loan will be forgiven, meaning the company will only need to pay back the interest accrued.

duckie said:

You’ve drank the Koolaid.........
Bought the media hype.

People are looking at numbers without putting them in the proper context which leads to this type of wrong reasoning. Like did you know that the total cases are only .03% of the US population of 327,000,000. The percent of those with the flu is higher.

But without put in proper context, you really can not make a informed opinion.

And because they are closed......there is no way to support them like was suggested to the post I replied.

And to me they are essential regardless to what the government states.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J0d59dd-qM&t=18s

Something like .1% death rate in the US for the flu...This current virus is unknown... .5% up to 10% in certain places, but who knows. I'm listening to the experts and chilling at home for this one.

CESSNA10 said:

If there is a demand someone will reopen them or open new ones.

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I believe there will be plenty of demand and any new one's will most likely be smaller(10tables max) and be run way more efficiently. Only way bigger one's will survive is if they own the building. I don't see how any big rooms survive if you're payin rent. Maybe in smaller towns but even then its brutal.