Diamond Layout on Table

ndakotan · May 22, 2006

I shoot pool on bar boxes so I drew up a bar box in cad using my valley for dimensions. If someone can answer a question for me I'd appreciate it (refer to gif for reference.

The distance between diamonds on my bar box is 10 inches. However, after I drew my table in cad, I figured out that the distance from the 1 diamond near the corner (on the long rail) to the corner intersection of the diamonds is about 12.5 inches. This is also true if you are on the 1 diamond on the short rail measuring to the intersection with the diamonds on the long rail.

Knowing this, where is the diamond in the corner. If it is not 10 inches from the 1 diamond in either direction, then how can you continue diamonds off the table to figure 1 rail kicks and banks? If the diamonds are 10 inches from the 1 diamond, then the rail point would interfere with a long corner to corner bank.

There probably is some error in measuring and transferring to autocad, but not that much error. In the picture, the inside line is the nose of the rail and the outside line is the line of the diamonds (not the back of the rail).

If anyone can tell me what is going on, I'd appreciate it.

Skeezicks · May 22, 2006

ndakotan said:
[a question about diamond layouts]

Measure the length of the table from cushion nose to cushion nose.
Divide by eight. That is the measurement between diamonds.
The two diamonds at each end should line up with the
cushion noses of the short rails.

Do likewise for the width of the table, except divide by 4, of course.

Eric. · May 22, 2006

ndakotan said:
I shoot pool on bar boxes so I drew up a bar box in cad using my valley for dimensions. If someone can answer a question for me I'd appreciate it (refer to gif for reference.

The distance between diamonds on my bar box is 10 inches. However, after I drew my table in cad, I figured out that the distance from the 1 diamond near the corner (on the long rail) to the corner intersection of the diamonds is about 12.5 inches. This is also true if you are on the 1 diamond on the short rail measuring to the intersection with the diamonds on the long rail.

Knowing this, where is the diamond in the corner. If it is not 10 inches from the 1 diamond in either direction, then how can you continue diamonds off the table to figure 1 rail kicks and banks? If the diamonds are 10 inches from the 1 diamond, then the rail point would interfere with a long corner to corner bank.

There probably is some error in measuring and transferring to autocad, but not that much error. In the picture, the inside line is the nose of the rail and the outside line is the line of the diamonds (not the back of the rail).

If anyone can tell me what is going on, I'd appreciate it.

You measured correctly. The difference you discovered is consistant on any Pool table. The corner diamond is not the back of the pocket, it is where you have it in your diagram. There are actually two corner diamonds, depending on which side of the corner pocket you're on. This is one of the "secrets" to making the Corner 5 system work.

Eric

Bob Jewett · May 22, 2006

Eric. said:
Y... There are actually two corner diamonds, depending on which side of the corner pocket you're on. This is one of the "secrets" to making the Corner 5 system work....

And on some carom tables all 8 "corner" diamonds are marked with 9 diamonds marked along the long rail and 5 along the short rail.

heater451 · Mar 30, 2018

I know that this is resurrecting an old thread, but I was searching for something related to the distance between diamonds on a table, and this showed up high in the results.

The original question was never really answered.

First of all, regarding "what is going on" with the measurements: If the table had equal length sides (square), the corner diamonds would fall into the center of the corner pockets. However, the table is a rectangle, and the equal sections between the diamonds/spots begin at the midpoints of each side, with the extra length of the long dimension requiring the extra inches--so in essence, there is no "corner pocket diamond". (As another poster commented, there are two.)

For "how can you continue diamonds off the table to figure 1 rail kicks and banks?", I would answer in two parts.

1) For the side pockets, the in/out angles are correct *enough*. I can't recall right now, if it's better to use the contact point on the cushion (nose) for the bank/kick aim point (it might also be better for cross-table, but not long-table), but the point is, that the diamonds still give the right reference point

2) For corner pockets, having the two diamonds where they are, works better for potting, since the "center diamond" line is encroached upon by the cushion. For example, using the diagram, if you picture a line that goes from the diamond between the two 10" measurements, up and back to the corner pocket, the reflected line to the center of the pocket will hit the cushion before the pocket.

Bob Jewett · Mar 30, 2018

heater451 said:
... The original question was never really answered. ...

I think the question was answered above but here is a summary with some details:

1. The spacing between the (centers of the) diamonds is 1/8th of the distance between the cushions in the long direction or 1/4th of the distance between the cushions in the short direction. Those two distances are equal because the table is twice as long as it is wide when measured from nose-to-nose on the cushions. A "nine foot" table has a playing surface of 50 by 100 inches, so the diamonds are on 12.5-inch centers.

2. The distance of the diamonds back from the nose of the cushion is not regulated and it varies with different table designs and brands. Each table with diamonds has all of its diamonds the same distance from the nose of the cushion, or at least I've never noticed one that didn't.

3. For some banking/kicking systems it is useful to think about where the "missing" diamonds are. Those diamonds are simple interpolations or extrapolations of the usual diamonds, which is to say that they are the same spacing and in the same line as their neighbors.

4. There are two missing diamonds in each corner pocket if you follow the rule in 3. They are in line with their neighbors and on the extension of the rail nose of the neighboring rail. Here is a diagram of how the locations of those extra diamonds are found. Note that those diamonds are typically on the pocket iron.

5. Carom (pocketless) tables frequently have the eight corner diamonds inlayed according to to the rule in 3. On full-sized carom tables the spacing between diamonds is 14 inches.

Jimmorrison · Mar 30, 2018

Thanks, very informative

bbb · Mar 30, 2018

picture deleted

Bob Jewett · Mar 30, 2018

bbb said:
here is a picture of a carom table with the long rail and short rail diamonds
View attachment 488659

Except the diamonds are not spaced correctly in the picture. The corner diamonds are not in-line with the neighboring cushion nose and if the diamonds are equally spaced, they are all off except for the center diamond in each set.

bbb · Mar 30, 2018

Bob Jewett said:
Except the diamonds are not spaced correctly in the picture. The corner diamonds are not in-line with the neighboring cushion nose and if the diamonds are equally spaced, they are all off except for the center diamond in each set.

bob
it was the first pic i could find and thought the visual would be helpfull
i dont know how to delete my attachment
sorry about that

Bob Jewett · Mar 31, 2018

bbb said:
bob
it was the first pic i could find and thought the visual would be helpfull
i dont know how to delete my attachment
sorry about that

Go into edit then click on "Advanced". That should let you delete it.

Here is a picture from the For Sale forum of a 28-diamond table:

View attachment 347913

bbb · Apr 1, 2018

Bob Jewett said:
Go into edit then click on "Advanced". That should let you delete it.

Here is a picture from the For Sale forum of a 28-diamond table:

View attachment 347913

View attachment 488799

picture deleted
thanks bob

Diamond Layout on Table

ndakotan

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Skeezicks

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Eric.

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