Western arrogance is alive and well

Chi2dxa

Lost over C&D Triangle
Silver Member
I to can choose to buy chinese or any other foreign product but i choose my american brothers and sisters. I chose hawaii over the caribbean . Sorry i believe in a living wage. We fight all over the world for what ever reasons but cant fight for an american job?

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.
 

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
People pay $10,000 for an American made cue?

:grin:

Ah! "Wity" is back!

Ah but had you got familiar playing with a proper snooker cue you'd be eating them words now.

The typical pool cue....Laminated maple chopsticks attatched to a butt inlaid with bits of coloured plastic by robots wrapped in an irish womans knickers. The whole lot then covered with layer upon layer of thick varnish.

No wonder the pool played wear poncy whacko jacko gloves and use bucketfulls of talc. :p

Welcome to the Main forum, Wity!

:p
-Sean
 

Renegade_56

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
First, 'phenolic' only refers to the resin. The cloth or paper is what makes it a composite (a plastic composite).

Being poured is nowhere in the definition of plastic.

http://www.plasticsindustry.org/AboutPlastics/content.cfm?ItemNumber=656&navItemNumber=1128

dld

not really interested in getting into a pissing match about this friend,,,,,just stating that none of the materials, or processes used to make phenolic are used in plastics,,,,,,therefore phenolic is not a plastic,,,,,though some retailers list it with their plastics for sale for lack of a better category,,,,,ala ferulle, buttcaps, or joint materials.

I've made more molds for urethanes and plastics than I care to try and count, and pouring,,,,,or in more modern techniques "injecting", is quite common in the plastics industry.

Composite is a result of glueing materials together to result in a different material, kevlar, phenolic, etc,,,,,,
 

Jodacus

Shoot...don't talk
Silver Member
A $100.00 Chinese cue would cost $500.00 here. Thanks to the "living wage" idea.
 

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'm not arrogant...I just think I'm better than you :p

Yes, the "B" in "better" actually comes from the word "British." American English is, afterall, a orrower's and enefactor's language, dontchaknow?

-Sean <-- oops, notices "Boston" also egins with that "B". :p
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
Work ethics...

The writing is on the wall.


As far as the work ethic in China goes, this is an eye opener. The press was recently covering an "audit" of Apple's manufacturing supplier in China. They found that there were many workers putting in 60 hours a week. The media reported this as an abuse. However, when questioned, 48 percent of the workers said their hours on the assembly line were "reasonable," while 33.8 percent said they wanted to work more hours!

Chinese cues were junk. Even the Chinese didn't want them. But so were Japanese products, and Korean - not any more. I just saw some new Predator cues made in China. Let's put it this way, I agree that what we are going to see in the next few years is eye opening to say the least.
 
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PoolSharkAllen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Generally you can tell a chinese made cue by the generous amount of detail, which is usually just stickers that many people can't tell the difference with, as well as the low price,,,,,,so easily descernable from a mile away. Then there is the all exotic 'ebonized' finish, which to the more informed means cheap ass wood painted black. But at least they make cheap cues, and for the most part sell them cheap. And make no mistake, the ones I see are made extremely cheap. I get them in my repair shop occasionally,,,,,I see hollow ferulles with hardly any tenon in them at all, with plastic so cheap it melts down before I can even break the glue bond,,,,I've removed crooked pins from them that were nothing but a piece of 5/16-18 all thread hack-sawed off and the end that was screwed into the forearm not even deburred before being epoxied in. I have also seen forearms that were not cored at all,,,,,just one piece with a painted finish or a lithograph image on it to cover up the crap wood. Many times the repair work costs more than the cue could ever possibly be worth. I'll stick with American made personally,,,,,,I always get quality, and I never lose money on them.

I don't trust products made in China. Just 5 years ago, you may recall that the Chinese were manufacturing for export toothpaste and other cosmetics that were laced with diethylene glycol – a solvent used in antifreeze.

The Chinese regulatory, environmental and safety standards are just not up to the standards found in the U.S. and Europe.
 

Cdryden

Pool Addict
Silver Member
The Fury cue thread really drove this home. "Oh it's just a cheap Chinese product". It's time we start to understand and admit, low price due to economic reasons does not automatically equal "cheap" product. How can a pool cue retailing for $100 be any good? How indeed! It can because $100 there isn't $100 here. Made from cheap materials? What exactly does that mean? Isn't all plastic pretty cheap? Custom cues are full of it. Oh wait, they call it "phenolic". China has modern equipment, cheap labor, good materials and no morals about copying what works from whomever invented it. And they are quite good at it.

China is now dominating the production cue market as they are most other consumer products but many of us Westerners are in complete denial. And it's tilting more and more that way every day. The $100 Chinese cue may or may not be equal to the $1000 domestic one today, but give it a couple more years. The writing is on the wall.

Not all Chinese products are crap, just like not all westerners are arrogant. ;) But I think there are a couple of things going on here.

1. Trademark infringement
2. Cheap components

The Chinese have made a habit of copying people trademarks to turn a quick buck. And to make matters worse they use extremely cheap material while trying to mimic quality. The outcome is a cheap P.O.S usually. Custom and legit production cue makers take offense to this because it damages their reputation when someone who thinks they are using a predator break cue uses it a few times and it falls apart. They tell their friends "Don't buy the new Predator, its a P.O.S."

On the other hand I own a Players jump break sneaky pete style cue and I love it. For $75.00 it has been a excellent cue. Will it last me a long time? I doubt it. The lack of a collar at the joint will likely lead to a crack in the shaft or butt, but, for $75.00 I can live with it. I am sure it will last me a few years.

Be careful, you were quick to put everyone into the same boat while complaining about people doing that to the Chinese.
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
American Arrogance...

Americans are proud.

I am going to tell it like it is. We are proud of our country and of the many things we have accomplished, like...

We are the number one economic powerhouse in the world

The world's number one superpower

We have dominated technological innovation

and international business.

We are the number one consumer nation in the world

and the number one charitable nation in the world.

We have contributed to making the world a much better place.

And nobody else is even close.

You can call it what you want.

If you wish to call it arrogance, you may do so - and be protected by law from reprisal.
 

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
As far as the work ethic in China goes, this is an eye opener. The press was recently covering an "audit" of Apple's manufacturing supplier in China. They found that there were many workers putting in 60 hours a week. The media reported this as an abuse. However, when questioned, 48 percent of the workers said their hours on the assembly line were "reasonable," while 33.8 percent said they wanted to work more hours!

Chinese cues were junk. Even the Chinese didn't want them. But so were Janapese products, and Korean - not any more. I just saw some new Predator cues made in China. Let's put it this way, I agree that what we are going to see in the next few years is eye opening to say the least.

Chris:

You're exactly right. Concerning that audit of Apple's manufacturing supplier in China, that company is Foxconn. There are two sides to the story, with the below two links covering the two sides of the fence:

"Foxconn suicides"
http://globalpost.com/dispatch/chin...610/foxconn-suicides-why-higher-pay-wont-work

"Apple, Foxconn set new standard for Chinese workers"
http://reuters.com/article/2012/03/30/us-apple-foxconn-idUSBRE82S19720120330

After it leaked out that Chinese workers were being worked to the bone, some sweeping changes were put in place to correct this situation. Now, true, it could be "a precision application of oil to just 'this' squeaky wheel" (meaning Foxconn, to keep it out of the spotlight), but all in all, Chinese workers maintain a work ethic that would put a lot of Americans to shame.

I happen to own several Chinese-made cues, including my new favorite main player, a Fury NR-08 with a Tiger Emerald and stack leather wrap (the tip and wrap are the only non-Chinese components to this cue).

Chris is right; Chinese products *used* to be shoddy and poorly-made. Not anymore. If there's one thing true. the "C" in Chinese could mean "commodity" -- as in quickly implementing the best manufacturing methods to make good quality [c]ommon. And they are very good at that!

As a veteran and believer in American know-how, I try to buy American whenever I can. But sometimes I'm presented with a product that is of such good quality, that makes it very difficult to dismiss it just because of where it's made.

-Sean
 

Cdryden

Pool Addict
Silver Member
I don't trust products made in China. Just 5 years ago, you may recall that the Chinese were manufacturing for export toothpaste and other cosmetics that were laced with diethylene glycol – a solvent used in antifreeze.

The Chinese regulatory, environmental and safety standards are just not up to the standards found in the U.S. and Europe.

This is sadly very true. In the last 5 years I have read numerous articles about this very thing. And last year I experienced it first hand.

I was at a discount store to buy an extension cord. There was one for 25 bucks and one that looked the same and was the same length for 10.99. I bought the cheaper one because I couldn't reason why the other should cost more. Well, I found out when i got home. I plugged it into a box fan in my garage while I was working in it to get a breeze going. After about 2 hours the cord started smoking, when I went to unplug it I burnt my hand a little from the cord.
The rating on the cord was sufficient to handle the current that the motor required, so I couldn't understand why it got hot. I did some checking and found out that these extension cords were made in China and they faked the UL logo and used light gauge wiring. So I cut the sheathing off to look at the wire, sure enough, what should have been 14 gauge copper wire looked more like 18 gauge aluminum! It couldn't handle the current and burnt up.

There are several stories like these from lead based paints being used to other harmful chemicals and cutting corners that can lead to dangerous outcomes and China has been the manufacturer in all of these cases. Other countries do it to, including the good ole USA, BUT the reason for allot of the distrust is a constant flood of inferior and often dangerous product coming from China.
 

the420trooper

Free T-Rex
Silver Member
Ah! "Wity" is back!



Welcome to the Main forum, Wity!

:p
-Sean

Thaiger and Wity both seem to be from England, we know that much for sure.

Using your line of reasoning, one could easily infer that you and the Cocobolo Cowboy are the same person.

Don't quit your day job, mate. :D

images
 

metallicane

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My buddy just bought a Chinese knkock off of a Scotty Cameron putter. It is clearly an inferior product so I really don't know how good the Chinese are at making a knock off product.
 

JC

Coos Cues
I to can choose to buy Chinese or any other foreign product but i choose my American brothers and sisters. I chose Hawaii over the Caribbean . Sorry i believe in a living wage. We fight all over the world for what ever reasons but cant fight for an American job?

That sounds very patriotic however there are many items you cannot choose to buy American if you try. So many in fact your house may look like it's up for rent if you take them all out of it. You will not be posting on this forum if you choose only American electronics. You will be sending your patriotic sentiments snail mail. Unless of course the USPS loses it.
 

SUPERSTAR

I am Keyser Söze
Silver Member
It's called ethnocentrism.

It makes people blind to things they don't want to admit or accept when it comes to comparing other countries to their own.

For instance, is one really going to say that american cars were BETTER then the Japanese cars, during the time when the U.S. was putting turkeys out left and right?

Please.

People can flag wave all they want about American cues.
Doesn't mean that someone else from another country can't do it just as good, or better.
Sometimes, buying American doesn't stop you from getting a crappy product.

Sharpie pen anyone?:rolleyes:
 

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
This is sadly very true. In the last 5 years I have read numerous articles about this very thing. And last year I experienced it first hand.

I was at a discount store to buy an extension cord. There was one for 25 bucks and one that looked the same and was the same length for 10.99. I bought the cheaper one because I couldn't reason why the other should cost more. Well, I found out when i got home. I plugged it into a box fan in my garage while I was working in it to get a breeze going. After about 2 hours the cord started smoking, when I went to unplug it I burnt my hand a little from the cord.
The rating on the cord was sufficient to handle the current that the motor required, so I couldn't understand why it got hot. I did some checking and found out that these extension cords were made in China and they faked the UL logo and used light gauge wiring. So I cut the sheathing off to look at the wire, sure enough, what should have been 14 gauge copper wire looked more like 18 gauge aluminum! It couldn't handle the current and burnt up.

There are several stories like these from lead based paints being used to other harmful chemicals and cutting corners that can lead to dangerous outcomes and China has been the manufacturer in all of these cases. Other countries do it to, including the good ole USA, BUT the reason for allot of the distrust is a constant flood of inferior and often dangerous product coming from China.

And while there's a positive spin to many Chinese-made products (e.g. Chinese-made cues), there's also the dark side, too.

I'm a dog owner (my lady and I have three). We treat these guys occasionally with doggie treats, so we're in the pet store a lot. Many of the products for pets are now made almost exclusively in China -- including food and treats.

I'm sure the pet owners among us are well aware of the recent news that some of the Chinese-made doggie jerky treats (e.g. dried chicken treats, like the Waggin' Train brand) were suddenly causing severe sickness and deaths:

"Chicken Jerky from China may be causing Fanconi syndrome in dogs"
http://askavetquestion.com/news/2011/chicken-jerky-fanconi/

"FDA Continues to Caution Dog Owners About Chicken Jerky Products"
http://fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/CVMUpdates/ucm280586.htm

Lisa and I have since STEERED CLEAR of any Chinese-made food and pet products. When we pick up a product off the shelves in the store to read its label, the first place we look is to see where the product is made, and if that's been intentionally obscured, we try to determine it from the barcode. (Yes, it's true that you can't always determine the country of MANUFACTURE from the barcode, but you can get an idea which country issued the barcode, which is often close to the country of manufacture.) We stick with U.S. or Brazilian-made pet products.

-Sean
 
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