I started taking lessons…now I suck even more… WTH?

Pidge said:

1 or 2 lessons a week.

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1 or 2 lessons a week for 10 to 20 weeks straight is a very big commitment of time and money. Especially when you add in practice time to work on what you learn each week.

I'm sure doing it would give big results, but not many people who have full time jobs can do this.

It would be a good thing if instructors talked with students before hand to discuss expectations, time frames and amount of practice time the student can dedicate to pool.

Then again, that might scare off a potential lesson "sale".

CMarshall said:

Luckily, I have a pretty unique work schedule. I'm a School Bus Driver (don't ask) my wife is the bread winner, she's a Psychologist. I work M-F 0600 to 0900 then I have a break until 1230. If I stay at work, there's a 8' pool table and if I go home (which is 10 minutes away) there's an 8' table there, too! In the "Squad Room" they have all kinds of activities for the people who don't go home during the off time. I typically play about 3 or 4 hours a day. So I've got that going for me! Finding time to play and practice for FREE isn't an issue.

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Perfect! Weekend lessons or one Saturday another a week night and keep them short, no need to take longer than an hour. And bridge work should be like half an hour max.

the rule of thumb is - "if it feels right, it's probably wrong"

When training to improve in any sport/game there are times of soreness, frustration and/or regression. I've went through all of these phases many times in my own playing career.....and this is part of the natural learning process.

"No Pain, No Gain" is what they say.....and "they" are correct when it comes to serious training in tennis, golf, pocket billiards and even chess (mental pain is just as uncomfortable). I'd say if you don't experience some "down time" in your development you may not even be on the right path - the rule of thumb is - "if it feels right, it's probably wrong"

PM me your address and I'll send you my 'Ultimate Pool Secrets' free of charge so you have a "cross reference" for what you're learning. It's always best to have a "check and balance" when you're serous about results.

Play Well....the Game is our teacher (we still have to be good students)

CMarshall said:

So, I took a few lessons, thinking it would help my game. Obviously, we worked on stance and my bridge, shooting straight, etc…

Now, I'm more frustrated and irritated than before! I'm thinking too much and it isn't fun.

Has anyone else experienced this? Did you just plow through and continue? Or did you give up and go back to just having a good time.

Playing pool USUALLY relaxes me and puts me in a good mood. Now I'm upset with myself and frustrated and it seems like the last thing I wanna do is practice and or play.

Playing with my friends? I'm getting slaughtered….

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Lessons

I have been taking lessons for about 10 months now. Not private lessons, but a structured "pool school" kind of thing that does include some private lesson time as part of the curriculum.

Here's what I have learned:

1. Almost nothing is as important as fundamentals. And I still have to spend time on that.

2. I have lost perspective. As I have gotten better my expectations for my game have gone up and I frequently forget how bad I was 6 months ago.

3. I made more shots and then missed more shots. Initially I just had high, low and center. Once my cue ball position skills improved I slowly have been adding in right and left and my aim has been adjusting ever since.

4. Other parts of my game improved without my realizing it
On Saturday I called "safe" and then pocketed the object ball. My opponent chuckled and said "you shouldn't have called safe, you made that shot" and then a few moment later said "hey! I have nothing here" because he was hooked. As you get better your game may not "look" better but that doesn't mean it hasn't gotten better.

SpiderWebComm said:

When you learn something that relates to mechanics, it's totally normal to get worse before you get better. That downgrade in play can take weeks or even months before it feels natural - that's when you begin to reap the benefits. MOST people find themselves taking that step backwards and immediately go back to whatever they did before in order to protect their game. The correct move is to grind it out, however long it takes.

Leave your ego in your other pants and grind out the process of doing things the right way. If it takes you 6months to begin to realize the fruits of your labor, it's a short time to pay for a lifetime of runouts. Otherwise, if you keep going back to how you used to do it, you'll always be at the same level that made you want to take lessons to begin with.

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I think this is true to an extent but what if the instructor gave bad advice? Should he keep practicing it?

Let's use an extreme example. Let's say I'm an athlete that needs to be able to run fast and my goal is to increase my time in the 40. My coach tells me that I need to change my technique... He says I need to run backwards because running backwards is faster than running forward once you get used to it. Obviously in this example you can see that changing to this technique is a bad idea not worth spending time on.

I do agree though that good advice will set you back temporarily and you must force yourself to keep at it until the benefits show.

So how do we know what advice to listen to? I think logic can be applied but at times some good things taught to you won't make sense at first, so to bigin with I think one should ask themselves if the teacher knows what he is talking about. Can he perform the skill hisself or has he been able to teach someone else with good results? Can I recognize what he is teaching when I watch the masters of the skills perform? These are questions I think everyone should ask when seeking instructions.

CMarshall said:

So, I took a few lessons, thinking it would help my game. Obviously, we worked on stance and my bridge, shooting straight, etc…

Now, I'm more frustrated and irritated than before! I'm thinking too much and it isn't fun.

Has anyone else experienced this? Did you just plow through and continue? Or did you give up and go back to just having a good time.

Playing pool USUALLY relaxes me and puts me in a good mood. Now I'm upset with myself and frustrated and it seems like the last thing I wanna do is practice and or play.

Playing with my friends? I'm getting slaughtered….

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You know, so much depends on the instructor and how they approach teaching.

I have seen instructors that totally tear down someone's fundamentals, without taking into account how much time the student is willing to invest in restructuring their game and what their end goal aspirations are.

I've helped out a few guys and what I always try and consider is: where they are and what will help them realize an immediate benefit to their game. I also try and figure out how much time someone is willing to invest long term into their pool game and suggest changes accordingly.

I have also helped out guys that have had a "professional" instructor rip their basics down and left them near helpless. Just because someone hangs a shingle out as a "pool instructor" doesn't mean they know diddly-do-da.

Student beware.

Lou Figueroa

lfigueroa said:

You know, so much depends on the instructor and how they approach teaching.

I have seen instructors that totally tear down someone's fundamentals, without taking into account how much time the student is willing to invest in restructuring their game and what their end goal aspirations are.

I've helped out a few guys and what I always try and consider is: where they are and what will help them realize an immediate benefit to their game. I also try and figure out how much time someone is willing to invest long term into their pool game and suggest changes accordingly.

I have also helped out guys that have had a "professional" instructor rip their basics down and left them near helpless. Just because someone hangs a shingle out as a "pool instructor" doesn't mean they know diddly-do-da.

Student beware.

Lou Figueroa

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I agree. I show students what ideal mechanics look like, and explain to them what makes those mechanics "ideal." Then I show them (by video recording) how their present mechanics compare to the "ideal mechanics." But if they don't want to change their style of play, I don't force them. I just try to find a way to help them make their mechanics deliver the most solid fundamentals possible. As long as they are happy, I am happy.

Roger

lfigueroa said:

You know, so much depends on the instructor and how they approach teaching.

I have seen instructors that totally tear down someone's fundamentals, without taking into account how much time the student is willing to invest in restructuring their game and what their end goal aspirations are.

I've helped out a few guys and what I always try and consider is: where they are and what will help them realize an immediate benefit to their game. I also try and figure out how much time someone is willing to invest long term into their pool game and suggest changes accordingly.

I have also helped out guys that have had a "professional" instructor rip their basics down and left them near helpless. Just because someone hangs a shingle out as a "pool instructor" doesn't mean they know diddly-do-da.

Student beware.

Lou Figueroa

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And to be fair, I have seen non instructors completely ruin folks with nonsensical advice. I was at a pool room practicing. The table next to me where a pretty decent player trying to help his buddy out who was just starting.

I was listening and watching a little. And it was fine, hold the cue like this, make a bridge like that, stand kinda this way stuff. So, the first 20 minutes were fine and dandy, then BAM, he starts showing him how to spin the cue ball ???

And I'm thinking WTF are you doing? Jumping from how to make a bridge to spinning the cueball, is like jumping from how to open the hood of your car to rebuilding a carburetor.

So, unlike a few bad instructors out there, there are many more "bad" player/teachers imho.

lfigueroa said:

You know, so much depends on the instructor and how they approach teaching.

I have seen instructors that totally tear down someone's fundamentals, without taking into account how much time the student is willing to invest in restructuring their game and what their end goal aspirations are.

I've helped out a few guys and what I always try and consider is: where they are and what will help them realize an immediate benefit to their game. I also try and figure out how much time someone is willing to invest long term into their pool game and suggest changes accordingly.

I have also helped out guys that have had a "professional" instructor rip their basics down and left them near helpless. Just because someone hangs a shingle out as a "pool instructor" doesn't mean they know diddly-do-da.

Student beware.

Lou Figueroa

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I think what's worse is an instructor that would blow smoke up your behind, tell you to do most everything your way if it feels right and then tells you to call them again in 4 weeks to pay them for another feel good session.

randyg said:

"Certified" by who?

randyg

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Randy does Certified mean you can treach, or you passed the class to be a teacher.

All doctors are called Doctor be they first in the class, or dead last. All complete training.

Don't make em all good, great, or just wonderful doctors.

CMarshall said:

Has anyone else experienced this? Did you just plow through and continue? Or did you give up and go back to just having a good time.

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I went through this same thing. Twice.

The first time is right after I started playing regularly and I purchased a book that dealt with all the scientific facts concerning the physics of pool. That book had me thinking about so many different things on bank shots, kick shots and caroms that my game went down hill. But it is like driving.... soon all the minute details are already being calculated accurately for you to get where you are going.

My recommendations:
1.) Refocus your thoughts. You are learning a new system, remember that every miss is a learning opportunity, not a mistake.
2.) Stick with it and don't worry so much about success in making shots.
3.) Remember the foundation that were taught. If what he taught you concerning such "basic" stuff as the stance and stroke has thrown off your game this much, then you really needed a fix and in the long run you will be a much better player.
4.) Use the new way exclusively when it doesn't matter like when you practice.
5.) Slowly incorporate the changes into your competitive play. Example: If you can't make a straight long shot with the new way, use the old way until you master the new in practice.

#4 will slowly work it's way into #5 without you even thinking about it usually.

The second time was after I had a visit with Stan concerning Pro 1 and he also gave me some stance and stroke tips while I was there. I am still working through 1-5 with them.

sub concious mind

I read a great book about the mind and its effect on pool. It seems one side (creative side) uses exclusively images and that is the side that does all your automatic functions like playing pool. The other side is totally literal and logical and uses language. This "thinking" side can not shoot a ball in the pocket but can decide which ball to shoot. When this side is in charge it interferes with the creative side and causes us all kinds of problems.

That is why it takes time and practice. The logical side sets up all the issues and then you must create a quantity of successful images so the sub conscious (that's what I call it) mind can just shoot the darn ball in. You would like to think you can just logically take everything into account and do just what you were taught but the conscious side can't react fast enough.

It is like dropping a glass and catching it before it hits the floor. You don't think "Opps I dropped a glass. I better use my right had to reach out at a speed greater than it is falling and ...". You have just learned over time to react because you have caught a lot of things in your life.

It will come it just takes time. As in every sport, you must be willing to get worse to change so you can learn to get better.