Comments on Willie Moscont

Dunnn51

Clear the table!
Silver Member
Hey while we are talking about stuff like this,

Who was better, Muhammad Ali, or Mike Tyson?..... :grin:

LOL, another argument for the ages !

Ali & Tyson,..... apples & oranges my friend.

concerning Mosconi and the 526 record.....

Mosconi is the reigning CHAMPION and holds the RECORD, period.

Records are broken when another Champion exceeds the performance of the prior record.

Take what Jay Helfort said in context. It's simply an Amazing feat of talent to accomplish !
 

Masayoshi

Fusenshou no Masa
Silver Member
I sort of agree with you but Mosconi's record 526 was not set in competition. I believe his high run in competition was 152. The competition mark is currently 200.

It was an exhibition, of course the match ended at 200, but it was still a competition between two players in front of an audience instead of a guy setting up a break shot over and over until he gets on a roll.
 

easy-e

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Busting out clusters, making shots you generally could not make. You could fire carom shots one after another dead in the jaws all day. He played st a level no one will ever match, in his sport.

Now I feel like I'm being baited, so I will kindly bow out of this discussion. His level of skill has been matched, even surpassed. And pool is not a sport. Nice try.
 

alphadog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Now I feel like I'm being baited, so I will kindly bow out of this discussion. His level of skill has been matched, even surpassed. And pool is not a sport. Nice try.

Parting shots from the "Bow"?:thumbup:;)
 

pwd72s

recreational banger
Silver Member
In the Mosconi video, Alan Hopkins said his best run was 410. No mention of equipment or if it was practice, exhibition, or competition.
 

johnnysd

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Absolutely!
Jayson Shaw, Appleton, or one of their running mates would be long gone with that money.
I wish someone would post only $10,000...that would get those hungry wolves out for some fresh blood.
I'd bet a little of my own money that one of them would, under the stated conditions, bust that record run in 45 days or less.
Keep on truckin'
:thumbup:

No way in hell Shaw does it. It's 36 racks of straight pool without a miss. John Schmidt played straight pool for like a week straight and he ran 400 which is 9 racks away from Mosconi. It's an incredible accomplishment. 36 racks without missing, hooking your self, getting on the wrong side of your break shot, not getting frozen to the rack, not scratching, not missing because of cling or slide with inside English.

I talked to a contemporary of Mosconi's at West End billiards one time about Willie, and he said he was actually better than his legend.and that he pretty much never missed. He disliked games other than straight, but no one could beat him in any game, as Bill's previous post pointed out with him giving the 5 to top pros. What he said was the Mosconi played so fast that you really never realized how difficult the shots he was making and getting perfect on the next shot.

Its sad that all we have of him playing is the matches he played in very late age, I think it has become almost chic to try and bash Mosconi and say that today's players are better.

It's all hearsay, I did play him once, but never really saw him when he really played.
 
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johnnysd

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
OK, so serious question:

Is it actually easier to run 526 on a 8 ft table versus a 9 foot table? Shots are shorter, yes, but also the cue balls are bigger in relation to the space on the table, so far more likely to get balls blocking each other, or getting the cue ball in a spot where you cant see the next shot.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
No way in hell Shaw does it. It's 36 racks of straight pool without a miss. ...

From what we can tell, Mosconi's run was 11 in the first rack, then 36 full racks of 14, then another 11 before missing. (37 break shots)

If someone were to run 526 starting with BIH on a break shot of choice, it would require 37 full racks plus another 8 balls. (38 break shots)
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Yes, Mosconi played a half table game -- he was totally unafraid of shooting shots to the sides and far corner pockets. He'd get the CB just below the spot and run off 14 balls, barely moving the CB around.

As to gambling, if you read R.A Dryer's most excellent, "The Hustler & The Champ" about the rivalry between Mosconi and Fats, he documents numerous times Mosconi would clean out road players passing through town, to include Minnesota Fats. He didn't travel and hustle but he was unafraid to play for the cash. However, when he signed on with Brunswick, they wanted a squeaky clean image for the game and Mosconi tried to put his gambling days into the background.

I believe the terms for World Championships were different way back, and some years they would be decided by challenge matches stretched out over several weeks and cities. Consider that this was in the day when 14.1 was *the* game, front page NYTimes stuff, and there were wall-to-wall straight pool mechanics in every city like Philly and NYC. Mosconi dominated them all.

For his exhibitions, Mosconi brought his own set of balls. Due to his contract with Brunswick he was compelled to play on their tables and as long as it was a Brunswick he'd play on it. I don't believe he cared about the pocket size.

Did he sometimes throw a piece of chalk? Bad mouth an opponent? Be a dick? Sitting in the chair, chew his tongue until it bled? Yes. But he was a genius, a savant, and saw what the game could be and suffered anything but perfection poorly.

Lou Figueroa

This is dead on, Lou. :thumbup:
 

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Long ball matches used to be the US Open where the final two contestants
played a series of 150 point games of 14.1 in a race to 2500 points. Now for
those who have doubts, go look at how many people had runs over a 100
& also how many times. Then go look at how many players ran the 150 points
consecutively. Now count up how many times Mosconi's name comes up
versus "everybody else" not just one or two players....I mean everone else.
Debating his greatness is pointless since unless you have knowledge of that
era & saw Willie play in competition, you can't appreciate his cue ball wizardry.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
OK, so serious question:

Is it actually easier to run 526 on a 8 ft table versus a 9 foot table? Shots are shorter, yes, but also the cue balls are bigger in relation to the space on the table, so far more likely to get balls blocking each other, or getting the cue ball in a spot where you cant see the next shot.

John Schmidt's views (as of 2009) on the relative difficulty of 14.1 on 7-, 8-, and 9-footers:

... for the record i think 14.1 on the bartable is easier than 9ft.

you can reach allbreakballs,combos and shots are a joke etc.

yes its more confined space but with the cueball control ive learned from 14.1 thats the last thing im worried about.

for the record the easiest table to play 14.1 is a 4x8 .ive played on them all and its the easiest no doubt. enough room to play but still easier on shotmaking,reaching,combos than 9ft.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
George Fels wrote of Mosconi several times.

Here's a brief excerpt from one of articles: "...When you took your kid or some other novitiate to see Mosconi you could assure that person that they had a pretty good chance to see a guy run 100 balls, and there isn't a living human you can brag about that way about today. And most of all, there was that magical thrill of knowing you were watching the best there ever was..."

Lou Figueroa
 
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