Fixing Pool should be relatively easy!

336Robin · Jun 2, 2017

Fixing Pool is relatively easy.

First you take a large gob of Money.....then you put it in a brokerage account and you diversify the portfolio.....then it makes money.....whatever it makes is what you have to spend.......then you have some tournaments......

Pros and Amateurs will show up for the money.

You invite people and charge them for seating....reasonable. You sell them food. You have products, you let them rub elbows with the players.

You have a big banquet at the end and you give out trophies.

Then you let them gamble their winnings with each other and you charge for seating for that.

You stream it and charge for that.

Sounds simple! There's money being made everywhere!

RiverCity · Jun 2, 2017

Another possible solution is to contact Fleet Labs and have them manufacture a fire hose type of douche that is able to clean out each and every one of the pool halls and bars across America. 10000 gallons per shot outta do it. :thumbup:

Too many douche bags, assholes, thieves, and otherwise unpleasant people are, and have always been, entrenched in this game. The problem with lack of money, sponsorship's etc etc etc is the people, its never been the game.

slide13 · Jun 2, 2017

You also have to find people willing to pay to watch. And you need venues that are nice enough and have good enough seating (think stadium style) that it's worth paying for. Those are the two really hard parts I feel.

Most pool halls aren't set up for spectating. And most spectator arenas are way too big for what a pool tournament is likely to draw.

I do think the winning mix is in there though....pro players, products, and a chance for spectators to play a little too....I'd pay for that.

jay helfert · Jun 2, 2017

336Robin said:
Fixing Pool is relatively easy.

First you take a large gob of Money.....then you put it in a brokerage account and you diversify the portfolio.....then it makes money.....whatever it makes is what you have to spend.......then you have some tournaments......

Pros and Amateurs will show up for the money.

You invite people and charge them for seating....reasonable. You sell them food. You have products, you let them rub elbows with the players.

You have a big banquet at the end and you give out trophies.

Then you let them gamble their winnings with each other and you charge for seating for that.

You stream it and charge for that.

Sounds simple! There's money being made everywhere!

I guess that Acquiring Excellence in Pool should also be relatively easy. I'd like to see you shorten that book to only one page! :smile:

It's getting that original gob of money that can be tricky. The investing part can have it's drawbacks as well. If it was easy as you make it sound everyone would be doing it.

By the way, how's your portfolio looking these days?

jay helfert · Jun 2, 2017

slide13 said:
You also have to find people willing to pay to watch. And you need venues that are nice enough and have good enough seating (think stadium style) that it's worth paying for. Those are the two really hard parts I feel.

Most pool halls aren't set up for spectating. And most spectator arenas are way too big for what a pool tournament is likely to draw.

I do think the winning mix is in there though....pro players, products, and a chance for spectators to play a little too....I'd pay for that.

Stadiums don't come cheap! Not to mention the cost of tables, lighting, seating and the set-up costs involved. Did I mention tourney personnel, advertising/promotion, insurance or licenses?

336Robin · Jun 2, 2017

The Market isn't bad

jay helfert said:
I guess that Acquiring Excellence in Pool should also be relatively easy. I'd like to see you shorten that book to only one page! :smile:

It's getting that original gob of money that can be tricky. The investing part can have it's drawbacks as well. If it was easy as you make it sound everyone would be doing it.

By the way, how's your portfolio looking these days?

The market isn't bad last few years. If its positive territory I'm happy.

Kid Dynomite · Jun 2, 2017

slide13 said:
You also have to find people willing to pay to watch. And you need venues that are nice enough and have good enough seating (think stadium style) that it's worth paying for. Those are the two really hard parts I feel.

Most pool halls aren't set up for spectating. And most spectator arenas are way too big for what a pool tournament is likely to draw.

I do think the winning mix is in there though....pro players, products, and a chance for spectators to play a little too....I'd pay for that.

jay helfert said:
Stadiums don't come cheap! Not to mention the cost of tables, lighting, seating and the set-up costs involved. Did I mention tourney personnel, advertising/promotion, insurance or licenses?

Near me they have this place called theatres in the round and it would be a nice set up for a pool match! Plus it would be used at off peak hours and may be the best of both worlds for the promotor and owner!!!

Also, many college auditoriums are in the round as well and go unused! Plus could be rented pretty cheap and possibly for free if the players work with the schools pool team a day or two before or after the event!!!

here is a picture of what i am talking about.

Only downside is food and drink which could be worked out with a local caterer or vendor.

KD

Hollismason · Jun 2, 2017

Even if you had a conservative investment option you would need money to the tune of 10s of millions of dollars to actually do this. Most investments even very good ones max out at around 4 to 5 percent that's if you go with a conservative option.

If you go with the not so conservative option and there is a market failure well you've just lost everything.

I am fascinate\d with the difference between the USA and Britain because on one hand Snooker is a huge game and well known, but pool is relatively not known here. I think the reason this is because where as for other sports you have a overarching organization that makes money from the teams within and you have wealthy owners as well , pool is simply made of individual players.

With Individual players the organization is absolutely reliant on other forms of income such as sponsors, donations, and fundraising efforts. This makes it difficult for that organization to invest in the sport itself because they have to use what funds they have for prize money + advertising + fees etc..

mchnhed · Jun 2, 2017

The Concern Should Be How to Bring New Players Into the Game.

How About "Celebrity Pool" TV Show with Lots of Editing, Quick Lessons, Trick Shots?

How About a "Skills" Competition Show Like Golf and the NFL?

Trick Shot Shows on TV or a Mall with Sign-Up Sheets for A Free Lesson and Frequent Shooter Card? ****

I Think Pool and Snooker Work in Europe and Asia Because Their Socities are More Patient and Not So Quckly Bored Liked Us People in the US.

middleofnowhere · Jun 2, 2017

jay helfert said:
I guess that Acquiring Excellence in Pool should also be relatively easy. I'd like to see you shorten that book to only one page! :smile:

It's getting that original gob of money that can be tricky. The investing part can have it's drawbacks as well. If it was easy as you make it sound everyone would be doing it.

By the way, how's your portfolio looking these days?

I can see the concept. Set up a self sustaining operation probably nonprofit for the sole purpose of promoting pool.

It would have to be a completely selfish endeavor that you do because you love pool. You will never make any money, or at least nothing that would make it worth doing beyond your own interest.

Many pool room owners have done this for years, in fact even promoters who do it for a living only do it for the love of the game. Someone like Tommy Kennedy I am sure hardly makes enough to make it worth the trouble.

No matter how you look at it, there is little money to be made in pool either as a player or in the business. Its a hand to mouth business in every aspect. Pool is just a small subcultural sport/game that will probable always be around but never on any big scale like many would wish. It is what it is.

Henry W · Jun 2, 2017

Chuck Fields said:
Another possible solution is to contact Fleet Labs and have them manufacture a fire hose type of douche that is able to clean out each and every one of the pool halls and bars across America. 10000 gallons per shot outta do it. :thumbup:

Too many douche bags, assholes, thieves, and otherwise unpleasant people are, and have always been, entrenched in this game. The problem with lack of money, sponsorship's etc etc etc is the people, its never been the game.

I guess you could do that or people like you could get out of the game before you completely destroy it. I played pool when it was popular and it was fun and then some people like you decided to clean it up and it has been going down hill since and in fact is no longer fun. You need to take your judgment and go to church and leave us alone. I have been playing pool for 50 years and been in a lot of pool halls and met a lot of pool players and they are my favorite people. I also worked for a fortune 500 company and I would rather be around pool players any day. My question is if you have such disdain for the people that play pool why do you even play?

336Robin · Jun 2, 2017

middleofnowhere said:
I can see the concept. Set up a self sustaining operation probably nonprofit for the sole purpose of promoting pool.

It would have to be a completely selfish endeavor that you do because you love pool. You will never make any money, or at least nothing that would make it worth doing beyond your own interest.

Many pool room owners have done this for years, in fact even promoters who do it for a living only do it for the love of the game. Someone like Tommy Kennedy I am sure hardly makes enough to make it worth the trouble.

No matter how you look at it, there is little money to be made in pool either as a player or in the business. Its a hand to mouth business in every aspect. Pool is just a small subcultural sport/game that will probable always be around but never on any big scale like many would wish. It is what it is.

mchnhed said:
The Concern Should Be How to Bring New Players Into the Game.

How About "Celebrity Pool" TV Show with Lots of Editing, Quick Lessons, Trick Shots?

How About a "Skills" Competition Show Like Golf and the NFL?

Trick Shot Shows on TV or a Mall with Sign-Up Sheets for A Free Lesson and Frequent Shooter Card? ****

I Think Pool and Snooker Work in Europe and Asia Because Their Socities are More Patient and Not So Quckly Bored Liked Us People in the US.

Hollismason said:
Even if you had a conservative investment option you would need money to the tune of 10s of millions of dollars to actually do this. Most investments even very good ones max out at around 4 to 5 percent that's if you go with a conservative option.

If you go with the not so conservative option and there is a market failure well you've just lost everything.

I am fascinate\d with the difference between the USA and Britain because on one hand Snooker is a huge game and well known, but pool is relatively not known here. I think the reason this is because where as for other sports you have a overarching organization that makes money from the teams within and you have wealthy owners as well , pool is simply made of individual players.

With Individual players the organization is absolutely reliant on other forms of income such as sponsors, donations, and fundraising efforts. This makes it difficult for that organization to invest in the sport itself because they have to use what funds they have for prize money + advertising + fees etc..

You can actually do this on a lot less money that youre figuring but you have to figure in some adjustments and let market do what it will.

Ive gotten 13 percent last year off of a diversified portfolio am doing better this year so far and a few years prior less and the last 10 with the average of around 8 off of nothing special just a broker managed account in proprietary investments.

for the sake of argument 1million at 10 percent is 100k you wont make that every year and you have to pay some salaries but they dont have to be huge. 8percent would be 80k

So if you can manage to get 2 million at 8 percent then you have 160k -40k in expenses and salaries because people should not have to work free or its not going to work. That leave 120 k of profit to break up in 12 10k added events.

All the while you are recruiting more members, and one of these positions you hire for is a person to solicit companies, the wealthy under the umbrella of a 501 so any donation are tax deductible.

There are some really rich folks that love pool and them bequesting a few dollars at death isnt out of the question.

I belong to an organization that hired a man to do just that and he did great with it and we support a lot of things from a coffer in the millions as you build members the interest you get becomes larger and larger and according to the rules of the 501 you cannot have profits so that means when the 501 does well you must dispose of the profits and that keeps pool going and with all of this going, what would be so bad in gettting the pool leaguers involved and get their interest in pro pool.

When the money works it might take some time but the rest can work. You just have to have the discipline to not go outside of the draw down that is decided by the board as safe.

Membership is the key.......40k members here at $20 a piece is 800k......you can offer membership for corporations, and different levels for individuals and businesses.

There are people and businesses out there that need a tax deduction and regularly give to charity, by being a 501 and tax deductible organization you provide them the chance to do something they believe in and members can give more than once, small amounts multiple times can add up, you just don't tap the pot for a few years and you post a goal and if you fall way short you still do it just on a smaller scale then one day you get it there and it works.

In other words you create a lasting model with a board and this way you arent allowed to screw things up.

Renegade_56 · Jun 2, 2017

Kid Dynomite said:
Near me they have this place called theatres in the round and it would be a nice set up for a pool match! Plus it would be used at off peak hours and may be the best of both worlds for the promotor and owner!!!

Also, many college auditoriums are in the round as well and go unused! Plus could be rented pretty cheap and possibly for free if the players work with the schools pool team a day or two before or after the event!!!

here is a picture of what i am talking about.

Only downside is food and drink which could be worked out with a local caterer or vendor.

KD

Look up Snooker and Crucible. That is a small example of why there is money in Snooker. Snooker players in Europe make money like golfers in the USA.

RiverCity · Jun 2, 2017

Henry W said:
I guess you could do that or people like you could get out of the game before you completely destroy it. I played pool when it was popular and it was fun and then some people like you decided to clean it up and it has been going down hill since and in fact is no longer fun. You need to take your judgment and go to church and leave us alone. I have been playing pool for 50 years and been in a lot of pool halls and met a lot of pool players and they are my favorite people. I also worked for a fortune 500 company and I would rather be around pool players any day. My question is if you have such disdain for the people that play pool why do you even play?

Yep, Im destroying pool for pointing out dipshits and losers. :thumbup:

You talk about being around pool for 50 years, maybe youve heard about guys like Buddy Hall dumping at the Challenge of Champions, there by harming any hope of big casino involvement in the future. Maybe youve heard of Don Mackey, who embezzled the prize fund from RJ Reynolds, the last MAJOR corporate sponsor who had anything to do with pool. The list goes on and on in the illustrious history of the game.

Im far from a "go to church" kind of guy. In fact, Im a realist.... There is no god either.... :thumbup:

Since you see necessary to keep repeating how long youve played, Ive played for almost 40 years, and Im only in my mid 40s. Ive kept my eyes open and witnessed more bullshit and criminal activity in pool halls than anywhere else. Had a friend get his head blown off outside a pool bar in Anchorage AK.

Why do you think that is? Why is there a bad image around pool in the publics eye???? Oh yeah, scum bag thieves, murderers, dope dealers, degenerate gamblers and anything else you want to pile on the list. Pool draws from all walks of life.... Fortune 500 guys such as yourself, and the utter scum of the earth.

Are all pool players bad? Nope of course not. I can say some of my best friends in life have come from the pool hall. But Im not so blind or stupid as to not recognize the people who have fooked this game over.

Keep going through life with rose colored glasses if you choose. Keep praying for corporate sponsorship money to come "FIX POOL"....... Its a pipe dream at best.

And to answer this one?

My question is if you have such disdain for the people that play pool why do you even play?

I have disdain for scumbags, not the general pool playing populace. And why do I play? Im a purist, I love the game itself. I love POOL. I just cant stand the aforementioned scumbags, thieves, liars, murderers, etc etc etc.

My question to you, since you seem like a reasonable level headed fella...... Are you blind to bullshit? Do you even get a whiff of it? Or does it take someone slapping you in the face with reality before you see it?

spktur · Jun 2, 2017

336Robin said:
Fixing Pool is relatively easy.

First you take a large gob of Money.....then you put it in a brokerage account and you diversify the portfolio.....then it makes money.....whatever it makes is what you have to spend.......then you have some tournaments......

Pros and Amateurs will show up for the money.

You invite people and charge them for seating....reasonable. You sell them food. You have products, you let them rub elbows with the players.

You have a big banquet at the end and you give out trophies.

Then you let them gamble their winnings with each other and you charge for seating for that.

You stream it and charge for that.

Sounds simple! There's money being made everywhere!

I really don't think anyone is stopping you so when are you going to start the process or is this just another great idea for someone else to do?

336Robin · Jun 2, 2017

Im not the right one

spktur said:
I really don't think anyone is stopping you so when are you going to start the process or is this just another great idea for someone else to do?

I've retired my career and I have stuff I like to do with my time like get caught up at my own house, do genealogy or whatever but I'm not the right guy anyway.

It seems like a few years back a group of players formed some kind of alliance and said they werent going to play a tournament if the money wasn't posted. Well this is sort of a player thing and if they ask people to form a 501 for this purpose then someone will do it.
They will also have an easier time recruiting people to get on the bandwagon.

Players complain about the money well here is a chance for them to be in charge of making and playing for it and in time controlling a lot more of it by a board of people they agree with and not a manufacturer that they ask for money.

I think this is a player thing to do. Its going to be work and they arent working as much as they want to so I think its naturally theirs. My idea but I'm not the guy. How about Jay Helfert?

maldito · Jun 2, 2017

jay helfert said:
It's getting that original gob of money that can be tricky./QUOTE]

That is the first thing that came to my mind - If I recall Trudeau had a gob of money to start out.

Justin Bergman · Jun 2, 2017

Snooker is better than pool but nowhere near like golf. The top snooker players make around two million a year & that's only like the top 2 or 3 maybe. If you're not top 10 in snooker you might as well get a job. They have a tour though & if you are in the top 10-15 you can get sponsored pretty easily & if you can snap off or place top 3 in a few events a year you can make $500,000. Our big tournaments, other than US Open, are $5,000 for 1st with $2,000 in expenses. Also much tougher to win a pool tournament than snooker... No average guy will beat O'Sullivan but in a pool tournament anyone that can draw there ball can beat a top pool player in a race to 7/9. Snooker is a game where the better player almost always wins. Pool not so much.

9andout · Jun 3, 2017

Kid Dynomite said:
Near me they have this place called theatres in the round and it would be a nice set up for a pool match! Plus it would be used at off peak hours and may be the best of both worlds for the promotor and owner!!!

Also, many college auditoriums are in the round as well and go unused! Plus could be rented pretty cheap and possibly for free if the players work with the schools pool team a day or two before or after the event!!!

here is a picture of what i am talking about.

Only downside is food and drink which could be worked out with a local caterer or vendor.

KD

Absolutely perfect venue.

middleofnowhere · Jun 5, 2017

maldito said:
jay helfert said:

It's getting that original gob of money that can be tricky./QUOTE]

That is the first thing that came to my mind - If I recall Trudeau had a gob of money to start out.

Click to expand...

The saddest part of Trudeau was, what he was doing could have worked. Just not with him running it. If he had given the money to say Jay, we would still be playing in the tournaments.

Fixing Pool should be relatively easy!

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