Gambling Scenario - Opinions?

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
I may speak to player A at some point to try to make sure he knows that what he did was not the best of etiquette to do when you are playing $ sets against another regular, for his future benefit.

By whose rules, yours? where is this written? There are so many etiquette rules and they differ from person to person. Now, suddenly, you're going to enforce etiquette rules that you believe in. I've never seen a rule you can't quit winner, ever.

If folks don't like it, don't gamble. Yes, the person may risk not having the person to gamble with anymore, but that's his risk to take. Our whole society we need "rules" to do this or that. Just let it be.
 

SC Hollywood

Registered
Two of our top players got knocked out of our weekly 9-ball tourney early last night, so they decided to match up and play some $20 sets. Both players, in their 30s, have played in our room as well as other poolrooms and tournaments for 20+ years and are among our top players. Player B has far more gambling experience than player A, but player A still has been around long enough that he should know what is acceptable in terms of gambling protocols. Neither of them are big gamblers, but they enjoy placing something $$ on their sets.

Player A got 3 sets ($60) up on player B, then player A informed player B his limit was $80 and he was planning to quit if he got to $80. The next set went hill-hill and player A won, and then quit. Player B still wanted to play more sets, but player A refused.

Then player A informed player B they could keep playing, just for fun, and player B refused, saying that was out of the question, and that he would never be playing him again. Player A then sat and observed tournament matches for another hour or more, before leaving. If he had made it to the finals of the tourney, which he often does, he would have been there up to 2 more hours.

I am the tournament director, as well as the proprietor and owner of the poolroom.
Both of these players are regular customers, and I consider both of them as friends of mine for many years. When player B told me what transpired, I was very angry.

I understand that what transpires between 2 players gambling is their business, so I am contemplating whether I should choose to stay completely out of it, or when I get the chance, to have a private conversation with player A, explaining to him that what he did was not acceptable, that player B had valid reason to be very angry, and explain to him exactly why, in hopes that he would learn from his mistake and not think he could do this again.

Just curious what others here think about this situation and as to what I, as Proprietor, as well as being a friend of both players should do, if anything?


I'd let them handle it, unless they get in an altercation over it in the bar in which case you then would have to get involved. If you side with one then other customers start to choose sides then you end up with a number of customers possibly being upset with you. Just my opinion.
 

jimmyco

NRA4Life
Silver Member
...I may speak to player A at some point to try to make sure he knows that what he did was not the best of etiquette to do when you are playing $ sets against another regular, for his future benefit.

At what point? This happened more than 10 days ago. You are only going to throw fuel on a smoldering ember.

IMO, your time to play busybody has past. YMMV
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
At what point? This happened more than 10 days ago. You are only going to throw fuel on a smoldering ember.

IMO, your time to play busybody has past. YMMV
Despite my last response on this thread yesterday, I guess I have pretty much made my decision to just let it go and say nothing. Both players were in here yesterday, playing on adjacent tables. I did not see them socialize at all, which is sad.

The only thing that will result from this as far as I'm concerned, is that I will not be playing any more sessions with player A. Although we never played for anything more than our pride, we always competed hard. Only in the event that he ever asks me why I won't play with him anymore is there any chance that I'll bring up this incident, that I didn't like the way he handled it, and that is why I've chosen not to play with him anymore.
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Despite my last response on this thread yesterday, I guess I have pretty much made my decision to just let it go and say nothing. Both players were in here yesterday, playing on adjacent tables. I did not see them socialize at all, which is sad.

The only thing that will result from this as far as I'm concerned, is that I will not be playing any more sessions with player A. Although we never played for anything more than our pride, we always competed hard. Only in the event that he ever asks me why I won't play with him anymore is there any chance that I'll bring up this incident, that I didn't like the way he handled it, and that is why I've chosen not to play with him anymore.

If you feel that strongly then good on you. I don’t understand why you’ve taken it so personally. Perhaps you should play him, but establish your ground rules first? Isn’t that what you’ve wanted all along?
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you feel that strongly then good on you. I don’t understand why you’ve taken it so personally. Perhaps you should play him, but establish your ground rules first? Isn’t that what you’ve wanted all along?
We don't need ground rules, as we don't play for anything and never have. As a the room owner, I just feel it's a good policy not to gamble with our regulars. Occasionally I may play scotch doubles sets with 3 other regulars of similar skill level as myself, but for nominal amounts - $10 or $20 sets.
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
We don't need ground rules, as we don't play for anything and never have. As a the room owner, I just feel it's a good policy not to gamble with our regulars. Occasionally I may play scotch doubles sets with 3 other regulars of similar skill level as myself, but for nominal amounts - $10 or $20 sets.

So you won't even play the guy for fun anymore? Damn!
 

ideologist

I don't never exaggerate
Silver Member
As a the room owner

You've been throwing your weight around pretty firmly on this one, congratulations! You run a business, not your high school glee club. You could have quietly said something to A when all this went down and helped the situation, instead of writing your angsty thread here, over and over harping about how you do things as a player.

You're not a player.

Run a business like an adult.
 

Taxi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Obviously an outsider should stay out of it, but equally obviously Player A was a dick.

So many ways of addressing this....

If Player A only wanted to win $80, then BEFORE THE MATCH BEGAN he should've either told Player B that up front, or---now here's an original idea that nobody in the history of pool has ever thought of before----suggest an $80 FREEZEOUT, or a 4 sets ahead freezeout if they want to play for $20 a set.

Or just say you want to set a time limit, which is fine, but say it in advance, not when you're already 3 sets ahead. That's just creepy.

But if you want to be a dick and quit while you're ahead just because there's no law against it, at the very least you should come up with an excuse that's a bit more creative.

Like the late Michael Gerace (AKA Geese) once did, when he got 8 games ahead of a hustler from New Jersey, let him win back one game, and then said "I've got a doctor's appointment" and packed up his cue.

Funny, but none of of in that Randolph Hills pool room had ever heard of many "doctor's appointments" at 8:00 on a Saturday night.:rolleyes: But then Geese was a true original.

And then there was the one and only Murphy, a sidekick of the late H Street Fats, a local DC scuffler. His excuse for quitting after some poor fish had finally won a game after 14 straight losses was one that deserves a place in the Pool Hall of Fame: "TOO MUCH SEE-SAW".

Murphy was so famous for this exit move that every time I've told this story to someone who knew him, the person I was telling it to would always just laugh and beat me to the punch line.
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Obviously an outsider should stay out of it, but equally obviously Player A was a dick.

So many ways of addressing this....

If Player A only wanted to win $80, then BEFORE THE MATCH BEGAN he should've either told Player B that up front, or---now here's an original idea that nobody in the history of pool has ever thought of before----suggest an $80 FREEZEOUT, or a 4 sets ahead freezeout if they want to play for $20 a set.

Or just say you want to set a time limit, which is fine, but say it in advance, not when you're already 3 sets ahead. That's just creepy.

But if you want to be a dick and quit while you're ahead just because there's no law against it, at the very least you should come up with an excuse that's a bit more creative.

Like the late Michael Gerace (AKA Geese) once did, when he got 8 games ahead of a hustler from New Jersey, let him win back one game, and then said "I've got a doctor's appointment" and packed up his cue.

Funny, but none of of in that Randolph Hills pool room had ever heard of many "doctor's appointments" at 8:00 on a Saturday night.:rolleyes: But then Geese was a true original.

And then there was the one and only Murphy, a sidekick of the late H Street Fats, a local DC scuffler. His excuse for quitting after some poor fish had finally won a game after 14 straight losses was one that deserves a place in the Pool Hall of Fame: "TOO MUCH SEE-SAW".

Murphy was so famous for this exit move that every time I've told this story to someone who knew him, the person I was telling it to would always just laugh and beat me to the punch line.

In your examples, those guys are lucky that the other guy quit ahead. Feels like they’d have lost a lot more.
 

Taxi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In your examples, those guys are lucky that the other guy quit ahead. Feels like they’d have lost a lot more.

They were indeed lucky, but in the long run those other guys ran out of suckers and died broke, after getting well deserved reps as locksmiths and one barrel shooters.
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
They were indeed lucky, but in the long run those other guys ran out of suckers and died broke, after getting well deserved reps as locksmiths and one barrel shooters.

Probably should have gotten jobs
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Obviously an outsider should stay out of it, but equally obviously Player A was a dick.

So many ways of addressing this....

If Player A only wanted to win $80, then BEFORE THE MATCH BEGAN he should've either told Player B that up front, or---now here's an original idea that nobody in the history of pool has ever thought of before----suggest an $80 FREEZEOUT, or a 4 sets ahead freezeout if they want to play for $20 a set.

Or just say you want to set a time limit, which is fine, but say it in advance, not when you're already 3 sets ahead. That's just creepy.

But if you want to be a dick and quit while you're ahead just because there's no law against it, at the very least you should come up with an excuse that's a bit more creative.

Like the late Michael Gerace (AKA Geese) once did, when he got 8 games ahead of a hustler from New Jersey, let him win back one game, and then said "I've got a doctor's appointment" and packed up his cue.

Funny, but none of of in that Randolph Hills pool room had ever heard of many "doctor's appointments" at 8:00 on a Saturday night.:rolleyes: But then Geese was a true original.

And then there was the one and only Murphy, a sidekick of the late H Street Fats, a local DC scuffler. His excuse for quitting after some poor fish had finally won a game after 14 straight losses was one that deserves a place in the Pool Hall of Fame: "TOO MUCH SEE-SAW".

Murphy was so famous for this exit move that every time I've told this story to someone who knew him, the person I was telling it to would always just laugh and beat me to the punch line.
His rather obvious reason for quitting, although he didn't state it, is that he'd managed to win back the $80 he'd just lost in the tournament and calcutta. If he'd packed up and left, it wouldn't have been near as bad, but his sticking around, and then asking the guy he'd just quit on if he wanted to keep playing some for fun, was just over the top!
 

Brookeland Bill

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Two of our top players got knocked out of our weekly 9-ball tourney early last night, so they decided to match up and play some $20 sets. Both players, in their 30s, have played in our room as well as other poolrooms and tournaments for 20+ years and are among our top players. Player B has far more gambling experience than player A, but player A still has been around long enough that he should know what is acceptable in terms of gambling protocols. Neither of them are big gamblers, but they enjoy placing something $$ on their sets.

Player A got 3 sets ($60) up on player B, then player A informed player B his limit was $80 and he was planning to quit if he got to $80. The next set went hill-hill and player A won, and then quit. Player B still wanted to play more sets, but player A refused.

Then player A informed player B they could keep playing, just for fun, and player B refused, saying that was out of the question, and that he would never be playing him again. Player A then sat and observed tournament matches for another hour or more, before leaving. If he had made it to the finals of the tourney, which he often does, he would have been there up to 2 more hours.

I am the tournament director, as well as the proprietor and owner of the poolroom.
Both of these players are regular customers, and I consider both of them as friends of mine for many years. When player B told me what transpired, I was very angry.

I understand that what transpires between 2 players gambling is their business, so I am contemplating whether I should choose to stay completely out of it, or when I get the chance, to have a private conversation with player A, explaining to him that what he did was not acceptable, that player B had valid reason to be very angry, and explain to him exactly why, in hopes that he would learn from his mistake and not think he could do this again.

Just curious what others here think about this situation and as to what I, as Proprietor, as well as being a friend of both players should do, if anything?

$80 bucks. All of this over $80. Small fish. These two need to take up knitting.
 
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Lonestar_jim

Two & Out
Silver Member
Two of our top players got knocked out of our weekly 9-ball tourney early last night, so they decided to match up and play some $20 sets. Both players, in their 30s, have played in our room as well as other poolrooms and tournaments for 20+ years and are among our top players. Player B has far more gambling experience than player A, but player A still has been around long enough that he should know what is acceptable in terms of gambling protocols. Neither of them are big gamblers, but they enjoy placing something $$ on their sets.

Player A got 3 sets ($60) up on player B, then player A informed player B his limit was $80 and he was planning to quit if he got to $80. The next set went hill-hill and player A won, and then quit. Player B still wanted to play more sets, but player A refused.

Then player A informed player B they could keep playing, just for fun, and player B refused, saying that was out of the question, and that he would never be playing him again. Player A then sat and observed tournament matches for another hour or more, before leaving. If he had made it to the finals of the tourney, which he often does, he would have been there up to 2 more hours.

I am the tournament director, as well as the proprietor and owner of the poolroom.
Both of these players are regular customers, and I consider both of them as friends of mine for many years. When player B told me what transpired, I was very angry.

I understand that what transpires between 2 players gambling is their business, so I am contemplating whether I should choose to stay completely out of it, or when I get the chance, to have a private conversation with player A, explaining to him that what he did was not acceptable, that player B had valid reason to be very angry, and explain to him exactly why, in hopes that he would learn from his mistake and not think he could do this again.

Just curious what others here think about this situation and as to what I, as Proprietor, as well as being a friend of both players should do, if anything?

Haven't read any responses but obviously, player A is bad action and people in your area should know this, so long as there is no gambling history between the two. Easy lesson learned for player B. He now knows not to expect much from the guy as he got nitty when he was a couple of sets up. Strange that he said his limit was 80. Maybe meant to say, "one more set". Hard to get too pissy had he said that, but still a nit move if he doesn't pay his tab and leave after quitting.
 

vapoolplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ahhh......pool. The only form of gambling where quitting a winner is somehow bad etiquette. Most other forms of gambling, people sit back and talk about people who don’t have the ability to quit while they are ahead and lose all their winnings.

I’d suggest as a room owner(and pool players in general), you are the ones that need to change your ideas on “protocol.”

Quitting a winner is the best way to make sure you are actually a winner in the long run. If you are concerned with someone quitting while they are ahead of you, then agree to lock up a certain amount of money or sets. If you don’t go into with set rules on the amount of sets/time/money predetermined, you can only blame yourself when either A) guy quits a winner or B) you were willing to lose quite a bit more money and your opponent quits after losing a set or two on you(essentially he was freerolling on your larger sum).

You’d think we’d have come further along with our logic as to how it pertains to gambling. This is how the degenerate gambler persona continues to stay with pool.
 
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Lonestar_jim

Two & Out
Silver Member
Everything you've posted here is the gospel truth.
I am glad I'm not the only one who thinks like this.
Good for you.
:thumbup:

The gospel of $40 ?
Maybe you and vapoolpayer can get together and hi roll each other for a bag of Orville Redenbacker popcorn.
;)

But generally I don't see that $20 sets after a $40 pool tournament makes anyone a degenerate. Just silly talk from the rail after the nit squad dropped.
 
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