Simonis 860

That looks like they pulled it extremely tight. But I'm know mechanic so I'm curious to here what causes this.


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wavy simonis

That appears the bed cloth wasn't properly stretched from the head rail to the foot rail first. Then when it was stretched across the table waves became visible. Or it wasn't centered before installation and one side didn't have enough excess to anchor it so it was over stretched to fit. The rails appear to be done in the same way, very shoddy workmanship and for the price of Simonis the installation should be spot on. Its an easy fix for someone who knows what they are doing. All is not lost have someone experienced repair it. Best of luck, Qfans

Thread moved from the review section. This is not a review.

scotts87iroc said:

Unfortunately, the guys that installed it are 11 year installers that do all of the best tables locally. I live in the Orlando area so when a special tournament is held here, these guys are the installers. They are from the only Olhausen dealer in the area and I guess the tournaments use tables provided by the local dealers. The rich folks like Shaq, Tiger Woods, NFL pros, etc all use these guys for installation. When they did the install, they pulled the sides very tight first, then they pulled from the corners and table head/foot. Is that not how it gets installed? I'm asking because I don't know and I heard that Simonis requires a specific installation technique.

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Wes Burden 813 416 2255 wespool66@yahoo.com

An excellent mechanic. Tiger and Shaq may know how to write a big check but Wes knows how to set up a table

Give him a call and let him tell you the depth of his experience

These are stretch shadows... and that usualy happen when cloth was installed with staples.
With RKC glue method its easier to avoid that shadows.
Shadows want affect playabillity if the cloth was properly stretched.

The shadowing on the rails is from stapling to close to the stretch which is avoidable if you know what your doing and can be fixed by adding new staples in between the old ones and removing the old ones. I have seen guys doing this work 20+ years that can't felt a rail with simonis without shadows and dimples, sad really. Well, a small bit of shadowing is one thing but that looks awful and if the nose of cushion is dimpling i would definitely have it fixed because that may not go away.

The bed cloth has shadows because it was not uniformly stretched. They just pulled tight very willy nilly . It needs to be marked and stretched evenly whether you are gluing or stapling. That also can be fixed by removing cloth from slate and redoing right.

scotts87iroc said:

Unfortunately, the guys that installed it are 11 year installers that do all of the best tables locally...when a special tournament is held here, these guys are the installers. ...rich folks...all use these guys for installation. ...

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joelpope said:

Wes Burden 813 416 2255 wespool66@yahoo.com

An excellent mechanic. Tiger and Shaq may know how to write a big check but Wes knows how to set up a table

Give him a call and let him tell you the depth of his experience

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Amen, Mr. Pope!

I had the guy who did the tables for the Baltimore Challenge of Champions event and he was a hack!

I often thank God I ran across John Burns, a local in my area.

joelpope said:

Wes Burden 813 416 2255 wespool66@yahoo.com

An excellent mechanic. Tiger and Shaq may know how to write a big check but Wes knows how to set up a table

Give him a call and let him tell you the depth of his experience

Click to expand...

Wes is the Man.

How to Fix Stretch Shadows

Very simple fix.

Just invest in the Simonis Cloth Installation Training Video. The stretch shadow and cushion dimple phenomenon is discussed and the way to avoid same is very clearly explained and demonstrated. Mr. Vondrell is correct. The rail staples must be placed a half inch or so further up or down the rail from the point at which you are grasping the cloth with your thumb and forefinger.

Trust me......a perfect stretch on the rails is easy after watching the video a few times. The Simonis videos are quite possibly the best bargain in billiard products today. :thumbup:

jfe

simonis stretch shadows

on the bed cloth

This is one of the best examples of why RKCs glue method is being adopted as the standard especially for simonis. Those "rays" are where the clothe is stretched to a slightly different tension than the cloth to either side of the staples. This is very common when stapling Simonis without using a stretch index or layout lines on the cloth to make sure the stretch is even..

RKCs glue method allows for all of the cloth to be secured, not just the parts where the staples are. You still can get stretch "rays" with the glue method if you dont use the layout lines.

the rail cloth can be fixed by someone with some patience and knowledge of how to staple Simonis correctly

recently a bar here in LAS VEGAS had their eight diamonds recovered by a hack who pulled the rail cloth so tight it actually "loaded" or dimpled the rubber at every staple that he put in. When I got back in town all the tables had to be taken apart and have the rail work redone. I was lucky enough to be able to do it without replacing the rail cloth. In this example the table operator went with the cheapest person to do the job and then the paid the most expensive guy ,"me" ,to fix the hacks work!!!!

WES will be able to correct this and when you talk to him tell him I have my passport and tools ready to go!!!

Good Luck
Gordon Graham
Las Vegas
425-275-8255

I just did my 4 1/2 x 9 Connely with simonis 860 hr stapled and I have none of the shadows you show.

It ain't the Cloth!

I was taught to stretch from the ends first, then the middle pockets, then the corner pockets, then the intermediate areas.

No reason for what you have.

Good news is it is fixable!

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My table has shadows and it was glued by techs that were trained and recommended by RKC.



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scotts87iroc said:

Hey all,
I have a few questions about the Simonis 860 that we had put on our new table. I can see some inconsistencies in the color along the edges and around the middle pockets. Now, I thought this was a problem with my table and the way the cloth was installed until I saw a thread here about home pool rooms and saw several people with Simonis 860 and the same issue. Will this go away or is it permanent? Should I have them redo the table? It appears that these are the areas the installer stapled the felt. There are also waves in the under side of the rails. What say the experts?

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Even with gluing, as well as stapling, the bed cloth needs to be installed correctly. On your table, the bed cloth was over stretched side to side, what should have been done was a little less stretch side to side and a little more stretch end to end then there wouldn't have been any stretch shadows at all. The rail cloth was stapled to close to where it was stretched at causing stretch memory in the cloth which is the stretch shadows you see under the rails, and if the cushion nose is dimpled then it was stapled right where it was stretched. I made the Simonis cloth installation DVDs for a reason, not just to show how to correctly install Simonis cloth....but ALL cloths installed on pool tables. More table mechanics, as well as table owners need to order them in order to insure the correct installation of the cloth so that less work is turned out like on your pool table

Glen

TheBook said:

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My table has shadows and it was glued by techs that were trained and recommended by RKC.



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Shown and trained are for sure two different things. I've shown several table mechanic's how to install the cloth correctly...but I've only actually had the time to train a few on tables over and over and over again, until I knew they forgot how they use to install the bed cloth, and could only remember how I trained them to install it...my way

Glen

This is what correctly installed Simonis looks like

I just want to say I bought the Simonis DVD's that RKC put together. There are no real good mechanics in my area that I know of so I figured I'd try to recover my table myself. The videos were great and my table turned out better than I could have hoped for. It turned out beautiful, I am so happy with it. It looks great with the Simonis 860 Tournament Blue that I put on it. No shadows under the rails at all!! I will admit there is a few minor shadows around the side pockets on the bed cloth but I figure for my first recover it turned out awesome. Thanks for the great instruction Glen!!

PS I also used RKC's method for the pocket liners. Wow, that turned out great too!!

Maybe I'll post a few pics if I get a chance.

I knew Jay and I put them DVDs together for a good reason:grin: