Wood vs metal weight

captainjko

Kirk
Silver Member
Hey guys... Wondering if anyone has compared the weight of wood removed vs, weight of threaded rod added. Example: Maple & Purpleheart butt of cue has not been drilled at all... Butt weighs 13oz...... Wanting to add 4ozs. If you were to drill out and tap, then add a 6" piece of 1/2-13 threaded rod that weighs 4.7oz ..... How many oz. of wood will be removed for the 1/2" rod? Purpleheart is what will be drilled out.
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey guys... Wondering if anyone has compared the weight of wood removed vs, weight of threaded rod added.

Yes. I did similar calculation recently on here.

PH average, specific gravity is .76

so the simplest approximate calculation is (7/16"/2)^2 x pi x 4.5" x .76 x 64lbs/cu ft/1728cu in/cu ft x 28 oz/lb.

I used 7/16 for the aproximate diameter at approximately the thread pitch diameter. If you look up (or calculate) the actual PD, the answer may change by a few grams....

You are looking at a bit more than 1/2 oz of wood removed. maybe even 5/8 OZ if you drill deep enough for clearance so the bolt does not bottom. :smile:

Edited: Oops, i used full dry SG of PH, it is a little heavier at say 8% MC, so 5/8 oz at actual depth, maybe up to 3/4 OZ if drilled deeper or MC is higher, or your particular PH is denser. :D If all the drilling and tapping is in a rock maple core, the actual depth will remove about .5 OZ, and deeper maybe .6 oz.

smt
 
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captainjko

Kirk
Silver Member
Yes. I did similar calculation recently on here.

PH average, specific gravity is .76

so the simplest approximate calculation is (7/16"/2)^2 x pi x 4.5" x .76 x 64lbs/cu ft/1728cu in/cu ft x 28 oz/lb.

I used 7/16 for the aproximate diameter at approximately the thread pitch diameter. If you look up (or calculate) the actual PD, the answer may change by a few grams....

You are looking at a bit more than 1/2 oz of wood removed. maybe even 5/8 OZ if you drill deep enough for clearance so the bolt does not bottom. :smile:

Edited: Oops, i used full dry SG of PH, it is a little heavier at say 8% MC, so 5/8 oz at actual depth, maybe up to 3/4 OZ if drilled deeper or MC is higher, or your particular PH is denser. :D

smt

Thanks.... I was guessing .5 to .75 oz of wood to be removed... But I was pulling that out of thin air... lol... So by those calculations, the end result should be very close....
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was guessing .5 to .75 oz of wood to be removed... But I was pulling that out of thin air..

It is surprising (& often demonstrated) how well calibrated some peoples awareness of weights and measures can be if they work with a given material or procedures on a somewhat regular basis.

This goes back a few decades, but when nails were weighed out of kegs, the older guy at my local hardware store usually routinely hit any (whole pound increment) within +/- one nail before he moved my bag onto the scale.

Let me know how far off "we" were when you get the job done. :wink:

smt
 

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
from my experience............. drilling or boring out the butt to decrease the weight gives you a lot less than you thing........... it is usually not worth it

Kim
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
He just wanted to know how much he lost from wood, when he drilled-tapped to add a 1/2 x 4-1/2 long weight bolt back in.

As everyone agrees: "not much" :D (little over 1/2 oz)

smt
 

captainjko

Kirk
Silver Member
After drilling a 7" hole with a 27/64 bit, the butt was .41oz lighter.... So almost 1/2 oz... After my tap gets here, I will post the final weight loss....
 

captainjko

Kirk
Silver Member
Why are you adding 4 oz of weight ?

The butt weighs 12.5oz... Shaft weighs 4.1.... Total 16.6oz... Wanting roughly 20oz total. Once all is threaded and weighed, I will shorten 1/2' rod to get 20oz. Hind sight, I should have used a stainless or brass pin instead of G-10...
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
The butt weighs 12.5oz... Shaft weighs 4.1.... Total 16.6oz... Wanting roughly 20oz total. Once all is threaded and weighed, I will shorten 1/2' rod to get 20oz. Hind sight, I should have used a stainless or brass pin instead of G-10...

Remove the G-10 screw. Brass will add at least an ounce.
Add more under the screw .

That cue's balance is whacked now . Should have added an ounce in the middle before assembly.
 

captainjko

Kirk
Silver Member
Remove the G-10 screw. Brass will add at least an ounce.
Add more under the screw .

That cue's balance is whacked now . Should have added an ounce in the middle before assembly.

I bought the blank already made...... Cant even remember where... But I was surprised at how light it is... I think I will change the pin... Can you add threaded rod under the brass pin?
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
I bought the blank already made...... Cant even remember where... But I was surprised at how light it is... I think I will change the pin... Can you add threaded rod under the brass pin?



Nope it’s 100% not possible....not even a rocket surgeon could accomplish such a demanding task 🤣

Lmfao yes of course dude


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JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
I bought the blank already made...... Cant even remember where... But I was surprised at how light it is... I think I will change the pin... Can you add threaded rod under the brass pin?
Yes.
Plug up the top 2.5" with threaded phenolic.
That way the new 3/8 screw will be on that threaded phenolic.

Figure out how to hide the thread on the face . Hint, boring bar.
 

desi2960

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I did my math a bit different

I weighted the butt, then drilled and tapped the hole. Then reweighted the butt.
 

captainjko

Kirk
Silver Member
Ok... I removed the pin... Inserted the phenolic....Added a piece of 3/8-10 rod.... Then a brass pin... Weight increased a bit.... Before I did that, with the shaft on, the balance point was at 21"... With the 1/2" threaded weight bolt taped to the butt where it would be installed, the balance point moved to 17"... I haven't checked it with the pin change... Will do that tomorrow.. Thanks for the input...
 

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
Ok... I removed the pin... Inserted the phenolic....Added a piece of 3/8-10 rod.... Then a brass pin... Weight increased a bit.... Before I did that, with the shaft on, the balance point was at 21"... With the 1/2" threaded weight bolt taped to the butt where it would be installed, the balance point moved to 17"... I haven't checked it with the pin change... Will do that tomorrow.. Thanks for the input...

Balance is a soapbox topic for me. It's so critical to how a player perceives the cue. Too front heavy & it feels like you're pushing it. Too back heavy & you're pulling it. It's very much akin to wheel caster. Negative caster, like rear balance cues, makes steering very difficult to control and subject to abrupt, unintentional turns. Think shopping cart. Positive caster gives much more predictable control but at the cost of limited range. Somewhere just positive of neutral is your Goldilocks balance that allows for plenty movement but well within your control.

That's what I strive for in every cue. It means beginning a build with balance in mind and remaining cognizant of it throughout. I know what my finish, bumper, hardware, joint pin, etc. weigh. Those are statics, set in stone, meaning I have to design around them. I use shafts between 3.7oz & 4.2oz on 95%+ of my cues for the same reason, to keep a level of consistency that allows me to easily reach my desired balance. A set of shafts for a cue are perfectly weight & tone matched so that each will not only feel the same, but will balance the same. The set is chosen specifically by weight for the purpose of balance.

Hitting that Goldilocks zone means the difference of a player being in awe of the cue or being indifferent, or perhaps even disliking it. Think about that wheel caster. A player trying to use draw but can't, or a player missing badly with an open bridge. Is it really his stroke or is it his cue has negative caster? How about a guy who can't seem to ever gauge table speed? Maybe because he's always pushing the cue like a wheel barrow through the mud. And then you hear about a cue where the guy says he can't miss, like the cue knows what to do & does it for him, as if he's played with it forever. That's because he got a properly balanced cue.

Now think about the so many cues you see advertised with two+ shafts that have different weights. That's a pet peeve of mine. With cues like that you hear that one of the shafts is awesome & plays great, while the other(s) is/are ok. The shaft isn't better. It's merely the correct weight to give proper balance while the others are not. Little things matter. A quarter ounce here or there can have a big impact on how your cue is perceived by the player. It's not rocket science but it is science and is worth the effort to learn. That's my rant for the day :)
 
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Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Do you tailor the cue to a customer, or do you always produce a cue with a balance point that is say x% of total length from the end of the butt cap?

Maybe what i'm asking, is do different people prefer different balance, or do "most" turn out to prefer the same, so long as they don't actually know where it is and decide they should have an opinion? :D ("Prefer" = "shoot/perform better")

Thanks!
smt
 

captainjko

Kirk
Silver Member
Balance is a soapbox topic for me. It's so critical to how a player perceives the cue. Too front heavy & it feels like you're pushing it. Too back heavy & you're pulling it. It's very much akin to wheel caster. Negative caster, like rear balance cues, makes steering very difficult to control and subject to abrupt, unintentional turns. Think shopping cart. Positive caster gives much more predictable control but at the cost of limited range. Somewhere just positive of neutral is your Goldilocks balance that allows for plenty movement but well within your control.

That's what I strive for in every cue. It means beginning a build with balance in mind and remaining cognizant of it throughout. I know what my finish, bumper, hardware, joint pin, etc. weigh. Those are statics, set in stone, meaning I have to design around them. I use shafts between 3.7oz & 4.2oz on 95%+ of my cues for the same reason, to keep a level of consistency that allows me to easily reach my desired balance. A set of shafts for a cue are perfectly weight & tone matched so that each will not only feel the same, but will balance the same. The set is chosen specifically by weight for the purpose of balance.

Hitting that Goldilocks zone means the difference of a player being in awe of the cue or being indifferent, or perhaps even disliking it. Think about that wheel caster. A player trying to use draw but can't, or a player missing badly with an open bridge. Is it really his stroke or is it his cue has negative caster? How about a guy who can't seem to ever gauge table speed? Maybe because he's always pushing the cue like a wheel barrow through the mud. And then you hear about a cue where the guy says he can't miss, like the cue knows what to do & does it for him, as if he's played with it forever. That's because he got a properly balanced cue.

Now think about the so many cues you see advertised with two+ shafts that have different weights. That's a pet peeve of mine. With cues like that you hear that one of the shafts is awesome & plays great, while the other(s) is/are ok. The shaft isn't better. It's merely the correct weight to give proper balance while the others are not. Little things matter. A quarter ounce here or there can have a big impact on how your cue is perceived by the player. It's not rocket science but it is science and is worth the effort to learn. That's my rant for the day :)

Excellent info.... As most on here know, I've been messing with making cues for a couple of years now... Not trying to go into business with it, just something to do in my spare time... I have been doing tips and ferrules for many years... I've turned out several cues with each one better than the last... Learning something from each one it seems... Thanks for all the input... Great info from each one for sure...
 

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
Do you tailor the cue to a customer, or do you always produce a cue with a balance point that is say x% of total length from the end of the butt cap?

Maybe what i'm asking, is do different people prefer different balance, or do "most" turn out to prefer the same, so long as they don't actually know where it is and decide they should have an opinion? :D ("Prefer" = "shoot/perform better")

Thanks!
smt

On the rarity that I do get a specific balance request, it pretty much always falls into range, anyway. We're talking less than a 1" long stretch of cue where it can teeter between rear & forward balance. Anything beyond the borders of that inch increasingly become unwieldy. When somebody asks for a specific balance, it's always somewhere inside that inch, and generally they are a very high level player. It's much more difficult to pinpoint a specific balance than to just land within an inch, but I accommodate. Thus far I haven't encountered anybody wanting something out of range so it's been a non-issue.
 

Hinekanman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Balance is a soapbox topic for me. It's so critical to how a player perceives the cue. Too front heavy & it feels like you're pushing it. Too back heavy & you're pulling it. It's very much akin to wheel caster. Negative caster, like rear balance cues, makes steering very difficult to control and subject to abrupt, unintentional turns. Think shopping cart. Positive caster gives much more predictable control but at the cost of limited range. Somewhere just positive of neutral is your Goldilocks balance that allows for plenty movement but well within your control.

That's what I strive for in every cue. It means beginning a build with balance in mind and remaining cognizant of it throughout. I know what my finish, bumper, hardware, joint pin, etc. weigh. Those are statics, set in stone, meaning I have to design around them. I use shafts between 3.7oz & 4.2oz on 95%+ of my cues for the same reason, to keep a level of consistency that allows me to easily reach my desired balance. A set of shafts for a cue are perfectly weight & tone matched so that each will not only feel the same, but will balance the same. The set is chosen specifically by weight for the purpose of balance.

Hitting that Goldilocks zone means the difference of a player being in awe of the cue or being indifferent, or perhaps even disliking it. Think about that wheel caster. A player trying to use draw but can't, or a player missing badly with an open bridge. Is it really his stroke or is it his cue has negative caster? How about a guy who can't seem to ever gauge table speed? Maybe because he's always pushing the cue like a wheel barrow through the mud. And then you hear about a cue where the guy says he can't miss, like the cue knows what to do & does it for him, as if he's played with it forever. That's because he got a properly balanced cue.

Now think about the so many cues you see advertised with two+ shafts that have different weights. That's a pet peeve of mine. With cues like that you hear that one of the shafts is awesome & plays great, while the other(s) is/are ok. The shaft isn't better. It's merely the correct weight to give proper balance while the others are not. Little things matter. A quarter ounce here or there can have a big impact on how your cue is perceived by the player. It's not rocket science but it is science and is worth the effort to learn. That's my rant for the day :)



Can’t wait for my cue. Really love the way you think and work.


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