Practice Game vs Tournament Game

ChrisinNC · Jan 20, 2020

The vast difference (worse) in my performance between my solo practice sessions and my performance in tournament match situations against similarly skilled players seems to be getting larger and larger the older I get, which I’m finding extremely frustrating. There must be a mental component of this which is holding me back.

My confidence / comfort level is just not there anymore except in brief spurts, even though I am often able to get in stroke and keep it more consistently in my solo practice sessions. These younger players I’m up against just seem to have no fear of the long tough shots. If they can see it, they can make it. I vaguely recall what that feeling was like years ago.

Are other aging players here experiencing anything similar, and found any ways to successfully try to deal with and overcome it?

JC · Jan 20, 2020

ChrisinNC said:
The vast difference (worse) in my performance between my solo practice sessions and my performance in tournament match situations against similarly skilled players seems to be getting larger and larger the older I get, which I’m finding extremely frustrating. There must be a mental component of this which is holding me back.

My confidence / comfort level is just not there anymore except in brief spurts, even though I am often able to get in stroke and keep it more consistently in my solo practice sessions. These younger players I’m up against just seem to have no fear of the long tough shots. If they can see it, they can make it. I vaguely recall what that feeling was like years ago.

Are other aging players here experiencing anything similar, and found any ways to successfully try to deal with and overcome it?

The last event I played in I was also kind of in shock. These young bucks were draining shots I wouldn't even be attempting. I reminded myself their fargo wasn't much higher than mine and there must be a reason. I waited my turn and sure enough they made mistakes and I held my own in the long haul. A good safety game and knowing when to play it is key as we age and our raw runout skills diminish.

Don't try to emulate what they are doing because you can't and that's ok.

ChrisinNC · Jan 20, 2020

JC said:
The last event I played in I was also kind of in shock. These young bucks were draining shots I wouldn't even be attempting. I reminded myself their fargo wasn't much higher than mine and there must be a reason. I waited my turn and sure enough they made mistakes and I held my own in the long haul. A good safety game and knowing when to play it is key as we age and our raw runout skills diminish.

Don't try to emulate what they are doing because you can't and that's ok.

Yes, my safety game is still strong, but once I’m able to survive a safety battle, then I still have to run out the balls when I get an opening, which I’m having difficulty doing.

I was playing perfectly fine, and then I missed one short, easy shot by a mile due to what I can only describe as a spasm occurring in the middle of my stroke! From that point on I was done - I just couldn’t get that one shot out of my head and continued to struggle/choke.

mikemosconi · Jan 20, 2020

Here is what I am discovering at age 66 and recently retired. I was always a very good player, won a lot of tournaments in my 30s, 40s, 50s. I actually feel that I AM A BETTER PLAYER now, but like you, I have struggled with PERFORMING, where I know I can be much better if I played competitively at my true potential.
Having the time now to really analyze myself- I do believe that it is all mental. I have no problem with eyesight, stamina during reasonable hours of play, and I am in great shape physically, most think I am at least 10 years younger than my age.
So with that in mind, I have focused 90% of my practice on being POSITIVELY COMMMITED to each shot ; once I complete my pre shot routine, ( sighting the shot, deciding on speed, english if any, and stroke to be used) - I get down on the shot- a couple of warmups, find the target point on the object ball, and then let the cue go while staying focused on that object ball. Your internal self -CONFIDENCE, will allow your relaxed back hand to deliver the stroke as planned . All of this takes maybe 10-15 seconds. Then you repeat this process over and over again.
For me, this routine keeps me focused to the point that I am almost constantly in a dead stroke zone if I am following this process. when I find myself missing shots that i know I should make- I just immediately remind myself to go back to this process and it keeps me from getting way off track.
I find with age the ability to focus repeatedly for longer lengths of time is diminished - it makes sense- no way an older mind can function as well as a sharp younger mind- just like everything else about our body as we age. So I find that developing more FOCUSED pre- shot routines, as least for playing pool, results in keeping the mind more focused for longer lengths of time. I couple this with a VERY POSITIVE attitude when faced with any shot- I find it imperative to treat EVERY shot the same, no matter the difficulty- it helps with confidence and focus. I just don't stress over anything at the table anymore- it is all about trust, focus and execution, while keeping mind and body in a relaxed state.
We are all going to miss shots, but when you do, even if you thought it should have been made; very important to just remind yourself to get back into the routine for your next opportunity at the table.
I will promise this, if you can get this process down, you will be running racks of rotation games and 14.1 and many times not even be aware of how many racks you are running - I remember 30 years ago taking lessons from a young Mike Zuglan (JOSS Tour Guy), in 1992 he was one of the best under 40 14.1 players in the U.S. - he told me that when playing alone he never knew how many balls he ran prior to a miss- he did not count racks, he was capable of being in that zone almost constantly!

ChrisinNC · Jan 20, 2020

mikemosconi said:
Here is what I am discovering at age 66 and recently retired. I was always a very good player, won a lot of tournaments in my 30s, 40s, 50s. I actually feel that I AM A BETTER PLAYER now, but like you, I have struggled with PERFORMING, where I know I can be much better if I played competitively at my true potential.
Having the time now to really analyze myself- I do believe that it is all mental. I have no problem with eyesight, stamina during reasonable hours of play, and I am in great shape physically, most think I am at least 10 years younger than my age.
So with that in mind, I have focused 90% of my practice on being POSITIVELY COMMMITED to each shot ; once I complete my pre shot routine, ( sighting the shot, deciding on speed, english if any, and stroke to be used) - I get down on the shot- a couple of warmups, find the target point on the object ball, and then let the cue go while staying focused on that object ball. Your internal self -CONFIDENCE, will allow your relaxed back hand to deliver the stroke as planned . All of this takes maybe 10-15 seconds. Then you repeat this process over and over again.
For me, this routine keeps me focused to the point that I am almost constantly in a dead stroke zone if I am following this process. when I find myself missing shots that i know I should make- I just immediately remind myself to go back to this process and it keeps me from getting way off track.
I find with age the ability to focus repeatedly for longer lengths of time is diminished - it makes sense- no way an older mind can function as well as a sharp younger mind- just like everything else about our body as we age. So I find that developing more FOCUSED pre- shot routines, as least for playing pool, results in keeping the mind more focused for longer lengths of time. I couple this with a VERY POSITIVE attitude when faced with any shot- I find it imperative to treat EVERY shot the same, no matter the difficulty- it helps with confidence and focus. I just don't stress over anything at the table anymore- it is all about trust, focus and execution, while keeping mind and body in a relaxed state.
We are all going to miss shots, but when you do, even if you thought it should have been made; very important to just remind yourself to get back into the routine for your next opportunity at the table.
I will promise this, if you can get this process down, you will be running racks of rotation games and 14.1 and many times not even be aware of how many racks you are running - I remember 30 years ago taking lessons from a young Mike Zuglan (JOSS Tour Guy), in 1992 he was one of the best under 40 14.1 players in the U.S. - he told me that when playing alone he never knew how many balls he ran prior to a miss- he did not count racks, he was capable of being in that zone almost constantly!

Good advice – thanks! Nothing I can do but to get back in the saddle and try it again, which I will do tonight!

DecentShot · Jan 20, 2020

ChrisinNC said:
The vast difference (worse) in my performance between my solo practice sessions and my performance in tournament match situations against similarly skilled players seems to be getting larger and larger the older I get, which I’m finding extremely frustrating. There must be a mental component of this which is holding me back.

My confidence / comfort level is just not there anymore except in brief spurts, even though I am often able to get in stroke and keep it more consistently in my solo practice sessions. These younger players I’m up against just seem to have no fear of the long tough shots. If they can see it, they can make it. I vaguely recall what that feeling was like years ago.

Are other aging players here experiencing anything similar, and found any ways to successfully try to deal with and overcome it?

Do you beat yourself up after any loss? First I would distinguish between beating myself, and me playing well, but running into a guy who didn't give many opportunities. As was suggested, I would try to dirty up the game a little, slow it down with safety play even if your BPI's go down. Some older guys switch to bar box as well.

Z-Nole · Jan 20, 2020

JC said:
The last event I played in I was also kind of in shock. These young bucks were draining shots I wouldn't even be attempting. I reminded myself their fargo wasn't much higher than mine and there must be a reason. I waited my turn and sure enough they made mistakes and I held my own in the long haul. A good safety game and knowing when to play it is key as we age and our raw runout skills diminish.

Don't try to emulate what they are doing because you can't and that's ok.

Switch to one pocket. It favors the thinker more than the shooter.

ShootingArts · Jan 20, 2020

that bad shot

We all make bad shots, even the best. They make fewer bad shots and they don't worry about them.

For me, I have to acknowledge the shot, hammer myself, forget it, in that order.

I noticed that Efren rubbed or scratched the back of his head when he made a mistake on the table then he moved on. Ha! I'll give that a try. A month later the bald spot on the back of my head was big enough people were asking about it and I still wasn't making balls any better.

Plan B: (in my head) "Damn that was stupid!" "That isn't my normal play though, forget about it."

I find it very easy to put bad play behind me when I consider it outside my normal play and remind myself of that.

Hu

sixpack · Jan 20, 2020

Also, there was a thread on here a few years ago. I don't have time to search for it right now but will update later if I can find it.

Basically as we age our eyes take longer to focus. So we can't play at the same pace that we used to. Instead of getting over the ball and shooting we need to give it a three count or so for our eyes to get everything in focus and be comfortable with it.

In practice this is easy, but when we play in tournaments the temptation is to go back to our tempo that we played with our whole lives...and then we shoot before our eyes are ready.

Franky4Eyes · Jan 20, 2020

Tourneys have never been my thing.
I'm too scattered to stay in one place under those circumstances.
Action or practice; played for hours on end.
My interest fades bcuz of the tournament conditions I believe. Never been much for travel or hotel life either.
My game is just like me. Never boring.
You never know what's going to happen. Lol
I'm not a people person either.
Maybe that's it...

*Also, sixpack brought up an excellent point.

lfigueroa · Jan 20, 2020

ChrisinNC said:
The vast difference (worse) in my performance between my solo practice sessions and my performance in tournament match situations against similarly skilled players seems to be getting larger and larger the older I get, which I’m finding extremely frustrating. There must be a mental component of this which is holding me back.

My confidence / comfort level is just not there anymore except in brief spurts, even though I am often able to get in stroke and keep it more consistently in my solo practice sessions. These younger players I’m up against just seem to have no fear of the long tough shots. If they can see it, they can make it. I vaguely recall what that feeling was like years ago.

Are other aging players here experiencing anything similar, and found any ways to successfully try to deal with and overcome it?

I think there are a few things going on.

First off, the longer you play and with whatever improvement you make along the way, the goal posts for what it means to be playing OK keep moving (think donkey with a carrot on a stick in front of its face).

Then there is the issue of practice v competition. IMO you need a mix and the trick is to learn from the ass whoopins. Because the defeats are showing you what you need to work on and realize in your own game.

Lastly, I can guarantee you that whatever semblance of a PSR you’re using in practice when playing well is not what you’re doing in competition. And that is a difficult nut to crack. But it can be done with self awareness and work.

Lou Figueroa

ShootingArts · Jan 20, 2020

That came out of nowhere!

sixpack said:
Also, there was a thread on here a few years ago. I don't have time to search for it right now but will update later if I can find it.

Basically as we age our eyes take longer to focus. So we can't play at the same pace that we used to. Instead of getting over the ball and shooting we need to give it a three count or so for our eyes to get everything in focus and be comfortable with it.

In practice this is easy, but when we play in tournaments the temptation is to go back to our tempo that we played with our whole lives...and then we shoot before our eyes are ready.

A funny: I just woke from a long afternoon nap, resting up before going to sleep. When I read three count I flashed to Lawrence Welk, "ah one, two, three ... It was like an almost awakened nightmare!

Great post of yours but I still see and hear LW. Maybe if I take some Geratal he will go away! I think I must have iron poor blood.

Hu

Logandgriff · Jan 20, 2020

Pool -- The Best Sport for the Older Folks

I'm playing better than ever at age 71 and I think a lot of us older folks can do so too.
I think some of the reasons are:

1) more time to practice.

2) No real job means no real pressures I'm more relaxed.

3) Because I have a bit more trouble on real long shots than I used to, I have accepted this and try to avoid them where possible, either by safety play or different routes.

4) Play smarter; always look for "make miss" opportunities where if you miss the shot you don't leave your opponent a shot.

5) Try to make your safeties more lethal. Don't just hide the cue ball behind a ball, stick it right on the object ball (i.e. touching it).

6) Practice last ball safeties so instead of shooting a hard eight or nine ball shot at the end of the game, put the cue ball in a spot where your opponent doesn't have an easy shot. If he makes the real hard shot you left him, shake his hand; most of the time he won't or he'll try to safety back. I can usually win a safety battle because most younger players don't think along those lines.

7) Avoid playing nine ball. Favors the young player and unless you can regularly run racks, it either requires too much skill or involves too much luck.

8) Enjoy the miracle that you're still playing the game you love. This helps me relax and have fun and play better.

Hope this helps and have fun.

9BallKY · Jan 20, 2020

I don’t guess I can any advice on this matter as I’m probably the worst tournament player in the history of pool. I honestly can’t remember the last time I played in a tournament and played good from beginning to end. I’ve won some of them but it doesn’t mean I’ve played good.

I think part of it is I’m just a slow starter it takes me about 10 to 15 games to get going and most tournaments you are beat before that many games are played. I’m the same way though when I’m just practicing the first few games I miss balls I normally would make and dog just simple outs till I get going.

For example the last tournament I played in was a 2 day event with 75 players. I struggled my first set but won then won two more sets even though I still didn’t play my average game over a couple of guys with Fargo’s in the 640 range. The second day I was in the final 8 on the winners side and was play a guy with a 700 fargorate and I played so bad I never gave myself a chance to win the set. If I had only played my average game I had chances to where I might could have advanced. Then on the losers side I lost hill hill to a decent player but I gave away at least 3 games in a race to 7.

To the OP my advice would be useless but at least your not alone. My goal is to play good in one tournament for start to finish but I doubt that will ever happen.

hotelyorba · Jan 21, 2020

Although I refuse to see myself as an aging player, I still recognize a lot in this topic.

For me, it has a lot to do with undermining thoughts while trying to shoot in competition. I rarely, if ever, have those thoughts in practice so that's a huge difference.

Also (I think someone mentioned this above) my practice-PSR is a bit different from the competition-PSR in the sense that it seems to be more rushed. I know I am a slow player and in a way I feel I should speed up if someone is watching, which is of course stupid because I am allowed to play at my own pace. Still it happens, subconsciously.

(Also, what makes it extra stupid: I am not really all that slow if you compare it to a lot of professional players (especially some Europeans, but also Asians and Muricans) but the amateurs and bangers seem to believe good pool should be quick-quick-quick.)

sixpack · Jan 21, 2020

sixpack said:
Also, there was a thread on here a few years ago. I don't have time to search for it right now but will update later if I can find it.

Basically as we age our eyes take longer to focus. So we can't play at the same pace that we used to. Instead of getting over the ball and shooting we need to give it a three count or so for our eyes to get everything in focus and be comfortable with it.

In practice this is easy, but when we play in tournaments the temptation is to go back to our tempo that we played with our whole lives...and then we shoot before our eyes are ready.

I'm glad this thread came up. It jogged my memory about the eyes.

Then last night I practiced some on a 9' gold crown with 4" pockets. Normally I don't make squat on that table.

But I realized I had gotten away from letting my eyes settle in and started giving it a three count so I could focus on the actual line and just put a smooth stroke on it.

I was making balls better than I have in quite some time! I even ran out a few racks of 8-ball with some really long shots in the middle.

I looked for a while last night for the thread but I couldn't find it yet, although I found some that were similar related to "Quiet eyes"...although I think you might have to search for "Quite eyes"

Tobermory · Jan 21, 2020

First, a story from fifty years ago. I knew a man who was a B+ concert pianist. I asked him what he needed to do to get to the A level. He said he thought it was inborn. He had taught at Julliard for a few years. When he walked down the corridor there, he said he would sometimes pass the studio of some world famous pianist. He said that he was sometimes shocked at how bad the great artist's performance was when he was not onstage. Then, my friend continued, the great artist would go onstage and nail the performance. The great ones play 80 percent of their game in practice but 100 percent, maybe even 110 percent, on the stage. I, my friend said, play 100 percent in my studio and 85 percent onstage.

To come to pool, I believe it was Steve Cook who claimed that there was no point to his practicing because as soon as he started to play in competition he played with a different stroke than the one he practiced with. He could not reproduce his competition stroke at the practice table.

You may find this book by a music educator useful: Eloise Rijstad (Sp?) A SOPRANO ON HER HEAD. The beginning of it is about being able to do on the stage (in competition) what you can do in your studio (practice table).

I suffer from a complaint similar to yours, in whatever activity I participate in. I can never perform as well for myself alone as I can when I am paired with another player or on a team. If I could play in single competition the way I can play in a partnership, I would be at least one skill level above my normal performance, and possibly a lot more.

DynoDan · Jan 21, 2020

sixpack said:
I'm glad this thread came up. It jogged my memory about the eyes.

Then last night I practiced some on a 9' gold crown with 4" pockets. Normally I don't make squat on that table.

But I realized I had gotten away from letting my eyes settle in and started giving it a three count so I could focus on the actual line and just put a smooth stroke on it.

I was making balls better than I have in quite some time! I even ran out a few racks of 8-ball with some really long shots in the middle.

I looked for a while last night for the thread but I couldn't find it yet, although I found some that were similar related to "Quiet eyes"...although I think you might have to search for "Quite eyes"

Re: aging eyesight:
Since I have recently noticed the focus of one eye (Rt. eye vision is now more blurred) has become worse than the other, I also discovered that I have been hitting the CB off-center. To drop a long straight-in shot, I now have to intentionally make the effort to hit the CB more to the Lt. of what I think is ‘center’. Go figure.

DynoDan · Jan 21, 2020

hotelyorba said:
.....I feel I should speed up if someone is watching, which is of course stupid because I am allowed to play at my own pace...(QUOTE]

Me too. Results in a sort of ‘panic’ when shot selection is not obvious, and you subconsciously feel that shooting the wrong ball is better than delaying the game. THAT (& the occasional last second miss-directional ‘twitch’ in my stroke) is just another ghost from my ‘banger’ early youth that I would like to banish!

BTW: Someone mentioned (in another thread) how “the harder the shot, the more likely you’ll scratch”. When a shot is SO difficult, that sinking it takes 110% of your concentration, and even though you know better, you will still often let Whitey get away. I just wonder, if THAT demon will ever be totally gone?

ShootingArts · Jan 21, 2020

a touch of side.

DynoDan said:
hotelyorba said:

.....I feel I should speed up if someone is watching, which is of course stupid because I am allowed to play at my own pace...(QUOTE]

Me too. Results in a sort of ‘panic’ when shot selection is not obvious, and you subconsciously feel that shooting the wrong ball is better than delaying the game. THAT (& the occasional last second miss-directional ‘twitch’ in my stroke) is just another ghost from my ‘banger’ early youth that I would like to banish!

BTW: Someone mentioned (in another thread) how “the harder the shot, the more likely you’ll scratch”. When a shot is SO difficult, that sinking it takes 110% of your concentration, and even though you know better, you will still often let Whitey get away. I just wonder, if THAT demon will ever be totally gone?

Click to expand...

Sometimes on those table length shots needing to cut the paint off of a ball to get it in a corner pocket I will use a touch of outside english. It isn't to make the shot, it is to keep the cue ball out of the corner pocket in nine or eighteen feet when it likes to find those corner pockets.

On another subject, some choke mightily on the stage or when the chips are down competing. I knew a supergood guy that was a supergood shooter. He couldn't make things work in competition. A handful of guys I knew had godawful crashes on the short track. When I asked them what happened, "I don't know, I think I just forgot to turn!"

My theory is that a person should perform better when the chips are down. How to go from choking to kicking things into overdrive for the big matches is something dozens of books have been written about, none of them that I know of worked. A sports psychologist or similar might be able to do some good but it is a tough hill to climb. You have to have a vision and perform to that vision. Plumb easy to type, a little harder to do!

Hu

Practice Game vs Tournament Game

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