mental toughness

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
along with players with great intuition and flair, I was just thinking how much I admire players who might not have those qualities, but still compete well..
players who keep a cool head, play the right shot at the right time, and make "better" players earn it.

two questions:

who do you like that fits this description and why? amateur or pro-

and

what are specific ways/techniques amateurs can improve mental toughness?
 

Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
i think you got it or you dont

to me the mental side is just as important as the physical


when i know im playing a lesser player, im loose and hittn em good
when i know the guy is as good or better, i just dont have confidence lol cant explain it
 

Scratch85

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
View attachment 517450
along with players with great intuition and flair, I was just thinking how much I admire players who might not have those qualities, but still compete well..
players who keep a cool head, play the right shot at the right time, and make "better" players earn it.

two questions:

who do you like that fits this description and why? amateur or pro-

and

what are specific ways/techniques amateurs can improve mental toughness?



Was just telling this guy, “I can’t beat ’em any more but I sure make ‘em earn it.” Every time I get beat, I feel like that guy.

One that I have always admired, Chris Bartram. Thought he was one of the most “chill” players I had ever seen. Smooth Criminal!





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CharlesUFarley

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
View attachment 517450
Was just telling this guy, “I can’t beat ’em any more but I sure make ‘em earn it.” Every time I get beat, I feel like that guy.

One that I have always admired, Chris Bartram. Thought he was one of the most “chill” players I had ever seen. Smooth Criminal!





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Funny, When I read this thread title, I though of Bartram as well. Also Alex Pagulayan.
 

jason

Unprofessional everything
Silver Member
Larry Legend
the Golden Bear
Tiger
jordan
dimaggio
...
Allison Fisher
The Magician
Mosconi
SVB
Alex
Robocop
...
improve by reading "the inner game of tennis"
 
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Scratch85

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Those mentioned so far are world class Champions! I thought the OP meant players who made world class champs play their best game or get beat.

Bartram made that happen and beat anyone who made a mistake and many who didn’t. Always thought Bartram looked a bit pissed whether winning or losing. Glad he chose to make an honest living but would have loved watching him chase a world title.

Answering the OP, what was great about watching CB was that his demeanor did not change. Win, lose or pressure a sweater, he always looked the same, somewhat pissed.


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ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Self Belief and Seasoning

Mental toughness can be learned. You have to believe in yourself and you can do that with self talk. Your unconscious believes what it hears. You can lift yourself up by your bootstraps and fake it until you make it with the mental game. I'm sure there is plenty of information concerning creating a positive self image on the net.

The other thing has to be earned the hard way, seasoning. Nothing helps mental toughness like having been in the same situation or tougher before, the more times the better.

A personal accomplishment I am proud of, in my second season of competition I shot the first perfect score in the fifteen year existence of some pistol matches. At least several dozen better shooters had tried many times before me including Masters, Grand Masters, and a many time world champion. I realized halfway through the event I had a real chance of shooting a perfect score and I went to the end of the firing line in the dark between each stage pulling together my mental game. Maximum score was 600 and many a 599 and 598 had been shot, it was the mental challenge of a perfect score that had prevented six hundreds.

I played one game of barbox eightball for a truly ridiculous amount of money, what it amounted to was what I had to show for five years of hard work. I figured my odds at a little above 50/50 if I lost the lag but more like 75/25 if I broke safe and left plenty of clusters. I could outmove and handle clusters better than the other player. Still a matter of the mental game, and the pressure was far greater on me. Five years of hard work for me, part of an every six months deal for my opponent. That barbox eightball game took at least fifteen or twenty minutes. I won because I performed up to my normal expectations the same as if I were playing for a beer or five bucks.

The mental game is build on ego and experience. Some like more polite words but I am pretty blunt and ego suits me. It takes ego to believe you can beat the best in the world.

Hu
 

Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
Ego is exactly the word

It might not be nice but hey it is what it is
We feed on it when you see someone struggling
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Mental toughness can be learned. You have to believe in yourself and you can do that with self talk. Your unconscious believes what it hears. You can lift yourself up by your bootstraps and fake it until you make it with the mental game. I'm sure there is plenty of information concerning creating a positive self image on the net.

The other thing has to be earned the hard way, seasoning. Nothing helps mental toughness like having been in the same situation or tougher before, the more times the better.

A personal accomplishment I am proud of, in my second season of competition I shot the first perfect score in the fifteen year existence of some pistol matches. At least several dozen better shooters had tried many times before me including Masters, Grand Masters, and a many time world champion. I realized halfway through the event I had a real chance of shooting a perfect score and I went to the end of the firing line in the dark between each stage pulling together my mental game. Maximum score was 600 and many a 599 and 598 had been shot, it was the mental challenge of a perfect score that had prevented six hundreds.

I played one game of barbox eightball for a truly ridiculous amount of money, what it amounted to was what I had to show for five years of hard work. I figured my odds at a little above 50/50 if I lost the lag but more like 75/25 if I broke safe and left plenty of clusters. I could outmove and handle clusters better than the other player. Still a matter of the mental game, and the pressure was far greater on me. Five years of hard work for me, part of an every six months deal for my opponent. That barbox eightball game took at least fifteen or twenty minutes. I won because I performed up to my normal expectations the same as if I were playing for a beer or five bucks.

The mental game is build on ego and experience. Some like more polite words but I am pretty blunt and ego suits me. It takes ego to believe you can beat the best in the world.

Hu

I found out I had mental toughness one night in a bar outside Santa Barbara. The full story is in my first book. I got a game with a tough guy who made me bet 50 a game Eight Ball when that was a bunch of money (Late 60's). I only had two barrels to fire at him. I knew that I was the better player but I needed to come with it that first game. He left me an open table and I ran all the balls down to the Eight which I never could get opened up. The only shot I had (I knew this when there was still a few balls left) was to bank the Eight cross side, a bank that I could usually make for a dollar or two a game easily.

But this was different and I knew that if I missed the bank he would probably win this first game and I would be down to one barrel. It was an open bank shot but I could feel all the pressure on me when I got down to shoot. I just made up my mind to hit that bank the best I could and whatever happened happened. I swished that bank and went on to make the biggest score of my life up to that point, winning nearly $2,000 plus a Harley! That one shot gave me all the confidence I needed for the rest of the night and the rest of my life for that matter.
 
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jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
I asked a friend of mine about that god awful stroke of Mike Davis jr - the way I understand it is, that's the only stroke that didnt break down for him under pressure. Mike is a great player and a great person as far as I can tell......but that GDMFing Stroke, holy cat poop!!! I cant even watch.

Just keep pumping that well and I'll buy the drinks lol
Jason
 

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have had my own table home for many years. When I gamble I play long sessions, over 10 hours. Becomes more about stamina and keeping your head sometimes.

To train I would set my alarm for early morning , like 3 or 4am and go down to play. Just to condition myself to playing tired. When the time comes in a long session you have to know you can keep it going.

I haven't played much the past 2 years. Just 2 weeks back I played 13 hours a day for 3 days.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
along with players with great intuition and flair, I was just thinking how much I admire players who might not have those qualities, but still compete well..
players who keep a cool head, play the right shot at the right time, and make "better" players earn it.

two questions:

who do you like that fits this description and why? amateur or pro-

and

what are specific ways/techniques amateurs can improve mental toughness?

Tommy Kennedy comes to mind along with Bartram. Warren Kiamco is another guy who has never had all the gifts of the more heralded Filipino players, but he was and is a gritty competitor who always made you earn it to beat him.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
I found out I had mental toughness one night in a bar outside Santa Barbara. The full story is in my first book. I got a game with a tough guy who made me bet 50 a game Eight Ball when that was a bunch of money (Late 60's). I only had two barrels to fire at him. I knew that I was the better player but I needed to come with it that first game. He left me an open table and I ran all the balls down to the Eight which I never could get opened up. The only shot I had (I knew this when there was still a few balls left) was to bank the Eight cross side, a bank that I could usually make for a dollar or two a game easily.

But this was different and I knew that if I missed the bank he would probably win this first game and I would be down to one barrel. It was an open bank shot but I could feel all the pressure on me when I got down to shoot. I just made up my mind to hit that bank the best I could and whatever happened happened. I swished that bank and went on to make the biggest score of my life up to that point, winning nearly $2,000 plus a Harley! That one shot gave me all the confidence I needed for the rest of the night and the rest of my life for that matter.

You hit em pretty good for an old timer anyway....might give you a visit shortly. Just got done for the spring, maybe.
Jason
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I asked a friend of mine about that god awful stroke of Mike Davis jr - the way I understand it is, that's the only stroke that didnt break down for him under pressure. Mike is a great player and a great person as far as I can tell......but that GDMFing Stroke, holy cat poop!!! I cant even watch.

Just keep pumping that well and I'll buy the drinks lol
Jason

Mike was always a tough draw for anyone, including all the champions!
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"when i know im playing a lesser player, im loose and hittn em good
when i know the guy is as good or better, i just dont have confidence lol cant explain it"

like hu said below your comment, "Mental toughness can be learned"
which is exactly why I was inspired to post..a lot of the physical aspect of billiards can be learned too, of course, but it all starts with the mind.

"Those mentioned so far are world class Champions! I thought the OP meant players who made world class champs play their best game or get beat. "

you got me.

"Answering the OP, what was great about watching CB was that his demeanor did not change. Win, lose or pressure a sweater, he always looked the same, somewhat pissed."

funny, but true..and I think there is wisdom there. keep cool, stay even, if possible.
I like bartram too, and would definitely consider him a good candidate for our "tough" list.

"Warren Kiamco is another guy who has never had all the gifts of the more heralded Filipino players, but he was and is a gritty competitor who always made you earn it to beat him."

love love warren..he's not called "the warrior" for nothin!

"improve by reading "the inner game of tennis""
good book for anyone, but as a tennis nut, this one's certainly been on my shelf for some time.

"I have had my own table home for many years. When I gamble I play long sessions, over 10 hours. Becomes more about stamina and keeping your head sometimes.

To train I would set my alarm for early morning , like 3 or 4am and go down to play. Just to condition myself to playing tired. When the time comes in a long session you have to know you can keep it going.

I haven't played much the past 2 years. Just 2 weeks back I played 13 hours a day for 3 days."

another good tip I think- to *be* tough, *practice* toughness...
example:
"I won because I performed up to my normal expectations the same as if I were playing for a beer or five bucks. "

and

"I swished that bank and went on to make the biggest score of my life up to that point, winning nearly $2,000 plus a Harley! That one shot gave me all the confidence I needed for the rest of the night and the rest of my life for that matter."

jay, you took a risk and went for the cheese, but as you said, doing so and succeeding gave you a lot of confidence. there is another lesson here I think..challenge yourself..put yourself in pressure-cooker situations not to stress yourself out, but to give yourself the chance to shine and do something great.

thanks all for the replies!
 

softshot

Simplify
Silver Member
I like shooting a stop shot line 5 ball sets at each diamond, and doing 25 push-ups before I started and in between each set pretty soon your hearts pounding and your breathing hard by the end you have to calm yourself with all that adrenaline pumping and hit 5 perfect 6 diamond stop shots... it's a lot harder than it sounds and teaches you how to settle down during pressure moments.

kinda like a pool biathalon LOL:cool:
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
that remembered shot

I found out I had mental toughness one night in a bar outside Santa Barbara. The full story is in my first book. I got a game with a tough guy who made me bet 50 a game Eight Ball when that was a bunch of money (Late 60's). I only had two barrels to fire at him. I knew that I was the better player but I needed to come with it that first game. He left me an open table and I ran all the balls down to the Eight which I never could get opened up. The only shot I had (I knew this when there was still a few balls left) was to bank the Eight cross side, a bank that I could usually make for a dollar or two a game easily.

But this was different and I knew that if I missed the bank he would probably win this first game and I would be down to one barrel. It was an open bank shot but I could feel all the pressure on me when I got down to shoot. I just made up my mind to hit that bank the best I could and whatever happened happened. I swished that bank and went on to make the biggest score of my life up to that point, winning nearly $2,000 plus a Harley! That one shot gave me all the confidence I needed for the rest of the night and the rest of my life for that matter.


Great story Jay! Illustrates a good point too, many people aren't willing to play aggressively enough to win when they are in a big match. The shot I remember wasn't for much money but it was the one that announced I was fit to play with anyone in the joint. Fifteen years old in a topless joint that let me play pool and served me hard liquor, I was playing a fairly recently retired pro boxer. The shot was on a bar table, a kick about three-quarter table length down to the end rail but then I was going to kick into his ball about a foot out from the side pocket or more to give me a good angle into the pocket. With most of his balls still on the table this was the best shot offered at the eight. Of course not contacting the eight was loss of game.

I didn't want to fight over the bet after winning so I explained the shot and made sure he agreed it was legal before shooting. About a dozen gamblers watching and pocketing that eight announced I could run with any of them.

Making a buck and a quarter an hour, a buck after deductions, those three, five, and ten dollar bets weren't chickenfeed! I joke about paying my way through all three weeks of college shooting pool but pool did make my high school years much nicer. Not Keith level nicer, but making double my paycheck for a forty or fifty dollar week on the table wasn't bad. Of course playing the dancers who were in "uniform" certainly helped make me shark proof.(grin)

Hu
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
along with players with great intuition and flair, I was just thinking how much I admire players who might not have those qualities, but still compete well..
players who keep a cool head, play the right shot at the right time, and make "better" players earn it.

two questions:

who do you like that fits this description and why? amateur or pro-

and

what are specific ways/techniques amateurs can improve mental toughness?


Professionally I like Efren, though he does have agreat intuition and flair. I like that he handles his emotions very well, smiling or laughing away any errors or mistakes.

Improving mental toughness...... I agree with Jason, read The Inner Game of Tennis, or Pleasures of Small Motions. I found a great little book that strictly deals with taking control of your emotions. It's called "Emotional Intelligence 2.0". It's excellent.
 
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