How many countries could beat USA at pool

Mcdermott1981

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was thinking about this topic today in regards to each country in the world putting together their 5 best players. How many countries, with their 5 best players, could potentially beat the US in a Mosconi Cup format?

1) Taiwan
2) Philippines
3) England
4) China
5) Germany
6) Canada possibly if they had Pagulayan, Morra, Klatt and two others?

Not trying to demean the US pool scene in any way, just curious on other peoples thoughts on this.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was thinking about this topic today in regards to each country in the world putting together their 5 best players. How many countries, with their 5 best players, could potentially beat the US in a Mosconi Cup format?

1) Taiwan
2) Philippines
3) England
4) China
5) Germany
6) Canada possibly if they had Pagulayan, Morra, Klatt and two others?

Not trying to demean the US pool scene in any way, just curious on other peoples thoughts on this.

This is why there is a lot of talk about just having a single country vs US or Europe vs North America, at least on the forums. Back when the US was top dog in pool it was a good idea for US vs everyone else. Now that you have kids from age 8 put in schools learning fundamentals and playing, not a lot of things US can do aside from the same thing.

Was just looking at Jr Nationals stream, there are maybe 8 kids that show proper coaching, rest play good just because their parents own a pool hall and they play a lot. Once you get past that, it gets even harder to stay on top.

Heck, there was a match between two girls in the 18 and under group with one of them said she played 6 times at Nationals, neither of them could make more than 3 balls in a row. Only in the US would that level of skill be able to play at a country-wide National event. When I pointed out that they both needed at least several months of lessons and more experience playing locally before going to Nationals in the chat, people were all against me saying "they are kids! how dare you!", like it was a tournament you go to if you found a cue in your house a week ago and say you are a pool player.
 
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greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
I was thinking about this topic today in regards to each country in the world putting together their 5 best players. How many countries, with their 5 best players, could potentially beat the US in a Mosconi Cup format?

1) Taiwan
2) Philippines
3) England
4) China
5) Germany
6) Canada possibly if they had Pagulayan, Morra, Klatt and two others?

Not trying to demean the US pool scene in any way, just curious on other peoples thoughts on this.



Previous occurrences will and have done that just fine without anyone new lol

I’ll bet the Harlem globetrotters could take em....lol jk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

marek

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was thinking about this topic today in regards to each country in the world putting together their 5 best players. How many countries, with their 5 best players, could potentially beat the US in a Mosconi Cup format?

1) Taiwan
2) Philippines
3) England
4) China
5) Germany
6) Canada possibly if they had Pagulayan, Morra, Klatt and two others?

Not trying to demean the US pool scene in any way, just curious on other peoples thoughts on this.

From top of my head 3 more european countries have the capacity/talent deep enough to beat USA:
Poland
Netherlands
Russia
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You can add Russia and probably some other Slavic countries. Maybe the old USSR you have players like Chinakov, Kaci, Gorst, several others.
 

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
I was thinking about this topic today in regards to each country in the world putting together their 5 best players. How many countries, with their 5 best players, could potentially beat the US in a Mosconi Cup format?

1) Taiwan
2) Philippines
3) England
4) China
5) Germany
6) Canada possibly if they had Pagulayan, Morra, Klatt and two others?

Not trying to demean the US pool scene in any way, just curious on other peoples thoughts on this.

We get it, already. The U.S. economy no longer supports pool halls as a viable business, and consumer tastes have drifted more towards multimedia /internet /gaming. And given the U.S.'s burdensome laws governing business/private clubs, it's impossible to support small private billiard clubs such as they have in Europe, because local municipalities want $25,000 for a liquor license so local government can get their taste of that sweet, sweet pie. So, those non-existent private clubs cannot operate as feeder systems for talent, the way they do in Europe.

There's a lot of structural reasons why American players are no longer as good as those from other countries. Most of them have nothing to do with anything under the player's control. There's no reason to keep rubbing it in with thinly veiled "just wondering" posts...
 
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Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
From top of my head 3 more european countries have the capacity/talent deep enough to beat USA:
Poland
Netherlands
Russia

Finland was number one last year European Champs medals. Came also second on team event. lost hill-hill deciding match...
5 really strong players. 5-10 more weaker pro speed players.
Also England is really strong. Spain top three is crazy strong.
 

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
Just my opinion, but the only Mosconi Cup format that would hold any interest for me would be Asia vs. Europe. I don't think a combined North America team could beat Asia nor Europe.

Maniac
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't think Canada can beat USA. Everyone below Alex and Morra are a notable step below USA's top 5, IMO.
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
From top of my head 3 more european countries have the capacity/talent deep enough to beat USA:
Poland
Netherlands
Russia

Hey Marek,

We had this conversation through pm not long ago. If we had that same conversation in open well, it would be some members that would not agree with us in the least.

We know what "most" of the problems are but nobody that matters cares and the average player has no clue.

Just like our pm conversations, I agree.

Rake
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
I was thinking about this topic today in regards to each country in the world putting together their 5 best players. How many countries, with their 5 best players, could potentially beat the US in a Mosconi Cup format?

1) Taiwan
2) Philippines
3) England
4) China
5) Germany
6) Canada possibly if they had Pagulayan, Morra, Klatt and two others?

Not trying to demean the US pool scene in any way, just curious on other peoples thoughts on this.
Fargo Rate did a chart on it.
 

Knels

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Shoot man bring a USA team up to Quebec or vice versa, plenty of up and comers here. It shouldn’t be a question of which country can beat the U.S., rather why aren’t more countries( in this case provinces) playing in homegrown mosconi cup like events with decent cash up for ALL players involved. Pool is very strong here, many great pool halls especially with the doolys franchise, there is one affiliated with Luc Salvas, and more recently a brand new jaw dropping one in st Jean sur Richelieu. Shouldn’t be that much for room and board compared to European countries. For whatever reason Alain Martel does not travel out of province, yet continually dominates local pro competition even at age 60 I believe. I’m rambling man, but all I’m saying is great warmup for the mosconi right up here
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Shoot man bring a USA team up to Quebec or vice versa, plenty of up and comers here. It shouldn’t be a question of which country can beat the U.S., rather why aren’t more countries( in this case provinces) playing in homegrown mosconi cup like events with decent cash up for ALL players involved. Pool is very strong here, many great pool halls especially with the doolys franchise, there is one affiliated with Luc Salvas, and more recently a brand new jaw dropping one in st Jean sur Richelieu. Shouldn’t be that much for room and board compared to European countries. For whatever reason Alain Martel does not travel out of province, yet continually dominates local pro competition even at age 60 I believe. I’m rambling man, but all I’m saying is great warmup for the mosconi right up here

Sheeeeat!!!
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
The USA has 15 players in the top 100 FargoRate
Only the Pinoys have more at 16.
China is third at 11.

I think if we went to the top thousand of each country....only the Pinoys might be competitive
with the US.

...and the scary part, as bad as pool is in the doldrums in North America, guess what
country pool players come to to ply their trade?.....America.
It’s still the best country to be a pool player.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
I was thinking about this topic today in regards to each country in the world putting together their 5 best players. How many countries, with their 5 best players, could potentially beat the US in a Mosconi Cup format?

1) Taiwan
2) Philippines
3) England
4) China
5) Germany
6) Canada possibly if they had Pagulayan, Morra, Klatt and two others?

Not trying to demean the US pool scene in any way, just curious on other peoples thoughts on this.

Agreed with the first four assuming you mean the UK (not just England). Germany, with Filler and Souquet, would be a very close match, but we'd be favored over Canada. Russia, with Gorst, Chinakhov, Stalev and two others would certainly give us a run for our money, but I see that as another very close match. Spain, with Alcaide and Sanchez-Ruiz would likely give us a run for our money, too.
 

Knels

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree....we’ve had two Border Battles...USA won both handily.

Fecks sake I wish I had the cash for this, I would put this together in a heartbeat. It wouldn’t be at no middle of nowhere military base with no crowd. Those border battles were a generation ago, there’s definitely new blood, morras better and pags is still a killer. It’s something that needs to be tested
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
We get it, already. The U.S. economy no longer supports pool halls as a viable business, and consumer tastes have drifted more towards multimedia /internet /gaming. And given the U.S.'s burdensome laws governing business/private clubs, it's impossible to support small private billiard clubs such as they have in Europe, because local municipalities want $25,000 for a liquor license so local government can get their taste of that sweet, sweet pie. So, those non-existent private clubs cannot operate as feeder systems for talent, the way they do in Europe.

Thee's a lot of structural reasons why American players are no longer as good as those from other companies. Most of them have nothing to do with anything under the player's control. There's no reason to keep rubbing it in with thinly veiled "just wondering" posts...

The US economy no longer supports pool rooms as a viable business? Strange then that there are so many pool rooms open and new ones being opened weekly.

Impossible to support private clubs? That's a pretty general statement that is simply not true at all.

Liquor licenses? You do understand that a private club doesn't need a liquor license since a private club does not sell liquor. Surely you understand the concept of BYOB.

There are, in fact, many private clubs in the USA which have pool tables, some of them formed expressly for pool playing, with dues-paying members.

What we don't have in the USA is private clubs that are structured like sports clubs in Europe/Germany with the focus on pool as a sport. I posted about this 15 years ago with details on how the clubs in Germany are structured with team levels from city to national.

So the bottom line, in my opinion, is that other countries produce better players on average at the higher levels is because they treat pool as a sport and train accordingly.

What we don't know however is what percentage of the population plays competitively and whether the USA has a larger amount of above average players but simply doesn't produce enough elite players.

I do agree that the American pool industry and the sport of pool in America could benefit greatly from a different structure. I would love to see it more like Germany. I miss competing in the German leagues and playing 14.1, 9 and 8 ball in sets. I miss having to compete in the club to maintain my place on the first team.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Fecks sake I wish I had the cash for this, I would put this together in a heartbeat. It wouldn’t be at no middle of nowhere military base with no crowd. Those border battles were a generation ago, there’s definitely new blood, morras better and pags is still a killer. It’s something that needs to be tested

This one was at Channel Nine studio in Toronto...
....we all had a great time.
And Alain Martel came up with the shot of the show....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIn-ZA2R5oQ


But we still lost the contest....:banghead:
 

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
Fargo Rate did a chart on it.

Fargo rate only applies to numbers. There are other factors in Mosconi Cup competition to consider. One would be heart. Another would be success under extreme pressure. These two factors is where I believe the Americans fail. Not that the Americans don't have heart….it's just they don't have as much as the Europeans.

Maniac
 
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