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03-14-2019, 11:47 AM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
Great post!

I was told by Tom Rossman (Dr. Cue) that ghostball is the only/best method to teach. He said that's all he teaches. We were discussing my book in comparison to traditional learning methods, and we disagreed on this subject. He is a great guy, very passionate about pool, very enthusiastic and entertaining. I have much respect for him, but I think your ideas are more open to the reality of how people actually learn.
Something quite remarkable I have noticed is that most people teaching alternate aiming methods say they don't use a ghost ball to visualize, but when they want the student to visualize they pull out the old ghost ball. Here Stan uses a ghost ball to teach CTE. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nETWcUmJsgs

Here CJ, who says, in this video "I don't use a ghost ball", goes on to use a ghost ball to teach aiming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXnZ77LmiEU

CJ even has ghost ball teaching aids. I wonder if there is a such thing as a pool instructor who does not require ghost ball to explain to a student where to hit the object ball?

Also, I wonder how people who can't visualize the ghost ball know where to place it while teaching?


Last edited by bioactive; 03-14-2019 at 11:50 AM.
  
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  (#152)
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03-14-2019, 11:57 AM

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Originally Posted by bioactive View Post
I wonder how people who can't visualize the ghost ball know where to place it while teaching?
I think pretty much anybody can see when two frozen balls are lined up at a pocket.

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  (#153)
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03-14-2019, 12:10 PM

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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
I think pretty much anybody can see when two frozen balls are lined up at a pocket.

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It was a joke. Lighten up.
  
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  (#154)
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03-14-2019, 12:13 PM

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Originally Posted by SFC9ball View Post
In this forum A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time. But in the league I play in they have no idea what CTE is let a lone spell it.
Well i wasn't talking about league play from wherever it is you play at. But give it two years, i'm thinking that will change.
  
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03-14-2019, 12:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Dan White View Post
OK I'm glad you are interested in educated opinions. You never responded to my post at the time so I don't know what your educated opinion is, or whether you even saw the post. You didn't reply to it again when I just posted it here:

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showp...&postcount=138

So based on your educated opinion which statement(s) do you agree with:

1. Slow balls do not throw more than hard hit balls,
2. Slow balls do not throw more than hard hit balls only when using CTE Pro1?

Thanks.
Your video requires no response because it just isn't relevant in the over all scheme of things.
  
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03-14-2019, 12:17 PM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
I remember trying to learn it by using straight in shots. If you don't get the perception right, or don't place your bridge hand down the correct offset from that fixed ccb perception, your pivot will not lead you to straight in. It's obvious when you shift your view from that ccb, straight down the shaft to see where your stroke is going to send the cb. Getting all of this working consistently takes practice.

Everyone knows cte is not fractional aiming. However, knowing the fractional aim point for a given practice shot (like a full ball hit or a half ball hit), gives the CTE learner a method of checking. Much better than just missing the ball over and over again (traditional trial and error) before you consistently begin to get the perceptions and the sweeps/pivots just right.
Maybe you should just totally forget about fractional aiming when trying to learn CTE. After all you said you couldn't get it to work while thinking of fractions
  
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03-14-2019, 12:18 PM

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Originally Posted by cookie man View Post
Your video requires no response because it just isn't relevant in the over all scheme of things.
Oh, OK. lol.


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03-14-2019, 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bioactive View Post
Something quite remarkable I have noticed is that most people teaching alternate aiming methods say they don't use a ghost ball to visualize, but when they want the student to visualize they pull out the old ghost ball. Here Stan uses a ghost ball to teach CTE. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nETWcUmJsgs

Here CJ, who says, in this video "I don't use a ghost ball", goes on to use a ghost ball to teach aiming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXnZ77LmiEU

CJ even has ghost ball teaching aids. I wonder if there is a such thing as a pool instructor who does not require ghost ball to explain to a student where to hit the object ball?

Also, I wonder how people who can't visualize the ghost ball know where to place it while teaching?

Placing a ghostball on the table for visual purposes and actually using it in a game are two entirely different things
  
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03-14-2019, 12:24 PM

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Originally Posted by bioactive View Post

I do think I have a pretty good understanding of it but only because I have read many posts and viewed videos from practitioners who basically are translating from gobbledygook into standard English.

As I said before I don't have any doubt that it is very useful it is just in need of better explanation.
Since you don't like the way he does it why don't you post a little video explanation of your "pretty good understanding"
  
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03-14-2019, 12:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bioactive View Post
Something quite remarkable I have noticed is that most people teaching alternate aiming methods say they don't use a ghost ball to visualize, but when they want the student to visualize they pull out the old ghost ball. Here Stan uses a ghost ball to teach CTE. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nETWcUmJsgs

Here CJ, who says, in this video "I don't use a ghost ball", goes on to use a ghost ball to teach aiming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXnZ77LmiEU

CJ even has ghost ball teaching aids. I wonder if there is a such thing as a pool instructor who does not require ghost ball to explain to a student where to hit the object ball?

Also, I wonder how people who can't visualize the ghost ball know where to place it while teaching?
But they don't specifically say, "We are aiming at the center of this ghostball." Instead, they use the ghostball only to illustrate where the cb must be in order to pocket the ob. Most aiming methods (CTE excluded) involve recognizing or visualizing the cb-ob relationship needed to pocket the ball. In other words...visualizing a ghostball. How you get the cb there depends on whatever method or system you use. If you are aiming though ccb to an estimated ghostball center or overall ghostball location, then you are certainly utilizing ghostball aiming. But if you're only using the ghostball to illustrate or show where the cb should end up when using contact points or fractions or what have you, then you're not aiming via ghostball.


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03-14-2019, 12:54 PM

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Originally Posted by cookie man View Post
Maybe you should just totally forget about fractional aiming when trying to learn CTE. After all you said you couldn't get it to work while thinking of fractions
I found it pretty helpful actually. I would set up 100% known half-ball shots, but instead of aiming straight through ccb along this known aim line, I'd follow Stan's/Hal's CTE instructions, using a 15 perception to acquire my "fixed" cb, then I'd do an inside half tip manual pivot from this fixed cb perspective to a final ccb. No fractional thoughts at all. But once I had my final ccb it was pretty simple to look straight through the cb to where my shaft/stroke is pointing. If it wasn't at the ob edge (the dead half ball shot) then I knew I did something wrong, either the perception was off a little or my bridge V was placed a little more or a little less than half a tip from my fixed cb perception.

And I find it odd that you said halfball shots rarely come up in CTE. That's odd because halfball shots are very common on every table during every game when using any other aiming method. But I understand if a player not using fractional aiming, or not paying attention to cb-ob relationships, might never notice how often the halfball shot comes up.


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Last edited by BC21; 03-14-2019 at 01:00 PM.
  
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03-14-2019, 01:08 PM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post

And I find it odd that you said halfball shots rarely come up in CTE. That's odd because halfball shots are very common on every table during every game when using any other aiming method. But I understand if a player not using fractional aiming, or not paying attention to cb-ob relationships, might never notice how often the halfball shot comes up.
Didn't actually say they rarely come up, but then again i wouldn't even know because i never think in those terms. I'm sure they come up all the time. I just look for my perception, i could care less about anything else.
  
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03-15-2019, 11:43 AM

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Originally Posted by cookie man View Post
Cause I'm sure the line of guys swimming in shit don't have the money or balls to post it.
What do you mean? The way 6pack described it you get the $5K if you can do or prove something. It didn't sound like you lose $5K if you can't do it.

I guess it will remain "a mystery that was never supposed to be."


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03-16-2019, 04:55 AM

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Originally Posted by Dan White View Post
What do you mean? The way 6pack described it you get the $5K if you can do or prove something. It didn't sound like you lose $5K if you can't do it.

I guess it will remain "a mystery that was never supposed to be."
Just as I'm sure Dan White will remain "a mystery that was never supposed to be."


PS would you ever seriously consider flying to Kentucky yourself to try to explain
CTE on video

PSS Are you going to watch the Truth Series and make an honest effort to understand CTE once and for all.

Last edited by cookie man; 03-16-2019 at 04:58 AM.
  
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03-16-2019, 06:20 AM

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Originally Posted by cookie man View Post
PS would you ever seriously consider flying to Kentucky yourself to try to explain
CTE on video

Depends on the circumstances. If I knew I could pick up $5000 by going to KY I'd do it. Wouldn't most anybody?

Quote:
PSS Are you going to watch the Truth Series and make an honest effort to understand CTE once and for all.
Of course. Unlike you I have an open mind. That's how science works and that process is what has shaped the opinions I hold today. I always question whether what I am saying makes sense before I post something. You're never completely sure, but the evidence is the evidence.

For instance, I could ask you the same thing. Are you going to watch the truth series and make an honest effort to compare what you are being told to reality and actual science? I COULD ask you that but it would be pointless. Over the years I've learned that you are not curious. You believe what you believe and that is good enough for you. The problem is you won't let the rest of us have an opinion without rebutting every... single... thing. I'd be OK with that normally but you have absolutely nothing to back it up.

Take the latest example from just a few posts above. Stan makes a video that is clearly full of contradictions. I ask you some specific questions about throw based on what Stan said and you bail out. So please spare me the condescension.

Oh, and it's PPS, not PSS.


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