9 ball ruling or just plain integrity question

m79a

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Playing a guy cheap sets the other day, race to 4 for 20. After the guy breaks and comes up dry, I shoot a leave. The one is lined up for a dead combo and the 9 and he can't hit either one. So he just takes his cue and pokes the 9 in the pocket. Is this just a foul or should that have been a loss of that game? I didn't say anything just gave him a look, we play on a regular basis, but I thought that was pretty bush league.
 

Eddie May

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That is 100% a unsportsman like move. In some rules you would prolly be able to put that ball back where it was, treating it as an accidentally touched ball.

That is 100% not allowed.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Playing a guy cheap sets the other day, race to 4 for 20. After the guy breaks and comes up dry, I shoot a leave. The one is lined up for a dead combo and the 9 and he can't hit either one. So he just takes his cue and pokes the 9 in the pocket. Is this just a foul or should that have been a loss of that game? I didn't say anything just gave him a look, we play on a regular basis, but I thought that was pretty bush league.

WPA Rules

6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct
The normal penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is the same as for a serious foul, but the referee may impose a penalty depending on his judgment of the conduct. Among other penalties possible are a warning; a standard-foul penalty, which will count as part of a three-foul sequence if applicable; a serious-foul penalty; loss of a rack, set or match; ejection from the competition possibly with forfeiture of all prizes, trophies and standings points.
Unsportsmanlike conduct is any intentional behavior that brings disrepute to the sport or which disrupts or changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly. It includes
(a) distracting the opponent;
(b) changing the position of the balls in play other than by a shot;
(c) playing a shot by intentionally miscuing;
(d) continuing to play after a foul has been called or play has been suspended;
(e) practicing during a match;
(f) marking the table;
(g) delay of the game; and
(h) using equipment inappropriately.
pj
chgo
......
 

ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
If you're playing Texas Express rules that would be a foul, BIH and re-spot the 9-ball. Going forward warn him that if he tries it again, you'll think its unsportsmanlike conduct.
 
Last edited:

Bowmer

"Shooter"
Silver Member
Clearing the nine from the table whenever my friends and I were playing a friendly game = forfeit game. I have never had someone do that and think that play would resume.
 

Tennesseejoe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A referee may decide one of several options as listed:
top

6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct
The normal penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is the same as for a serious foul, but the referee may impose a penalty depending on his judgment of the conduct. Among other penalties possible are a warning; a standard-foul penalty, which will count as part of a three-foul sequence if applicable; a serious-foul penalty; loss of a rack, set or match; ejection from the competition possibly with forfeiture of all prizes, trophies and standings points.
Unsportsmanlike conduct is any intentional behavior that brings disrepute to the sport or which disrupts or changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly. It includes
(a) distracting the opponent;
(b) changing the position of the balls in play other than by a shot;
(c) playing a shot by intentionally miscuing;
(d) continuing to play after a foul has been called or play has been suspended;
(e) practicing during a match;
(f) marking the table;
(g) delay of the game; and
(h) using equipment inappropriately.

But if I was gambling --- it's a consession of that game. End of story.
 

Donny Lutz

Ferrule Cat
Silver Member
Playing a guy cheap sets the other day, race to 4 for 20. After the guy breaks and comes up dry, I shoot a leave. The one is lined up for a dead combo and the 9 and he can't hit either one. So he just takes his cue and pokes the 9 in the pocket. Is this just a foul or should that have been a loss of that game? I didn't say anything just gave him a look, we play on a regular basis, but I thought that was pretty bush league.

Had a laugh when you used the term "bush" league. Reminded me of when the APA was called the "Busch League".
 

Thebigtexan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's how I see it. Money game..... remove money ball from table... end of game.

Exactly the way I see it. It is a lack of respect for a fellow player IMO. If you cant hack it, just pay up and save me the torture of playing a douche.
 

Sealegs50

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
IMO, that is way beyond a foul. I would consider the act as conceding the game. If he could hit the 9 with the cue ball and stop the dead combo, that's just good defense. But hitting the 9 directly with your cue is unsportsmanlike, as pointed out above. JMO
 

Bowmer

"Shooter"
Silver Member
Besides game being over, it would get you some serious rack time. These are the kinds of things that for me turn a friendly game into something a bit more seroius. If you want to see me bear down on someone this is all they would have to do.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Reality has to factor in though...do you want to keep a customer or do you want to fight him...or anything in between.

I played a guy the other night who I let slide on 2 push shots and failure to pay one game. I beat him 1 set of 9b and 7 games ahead in 1p (8, I say!). Had I argued his offenses, he probably would have pulled up earlier than he did. Kinda funny: I asked him if he paid me for the game, he said he did and I turned around and sat in my chair withouthout questioning further. Andrew Manning was battling for the top spot of a tourney next to me, he looked over and said, 'customer's always right, isn't he?'.

If I am winner or expect to be, I'd prob let it slide. Perhaps I'd inform him the action is actually loss of game and next time I would call it as such. Maybe not.

If I am taking the worst of it, then I might push hard for the win to be credited to me.

I might also put the 9 in my pants pocket and ask what we do now?
 

m79a

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for the input. I was pretty pissed and the only reason I didn't let him have it is I've been getting him for anywhere between 60 and 120 a couple of times a week, but that made me so mad I dropped a couple of sets that day.
 

randyg

www.randygpool.com
Silver Member
If you're playing Texas Express rules that would be a foul, BIH and re-spot the 9-ball. Going forward warn him that if he tries it again, you'll think its unsportsmanlike conduct.

In Tx Express that would be a loss of game.

randyg
 

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
Rule-wise it's a loss of game, and I'd treat it as a concession. Effectively it's raking the balls.

He can't expect you to reset the shot exactly as it lay when he intentionally moved that ball... what would be the point of moving it in the first place? He must have been hoping you'd spot the 9 lol.

If he wants you to shoot it, you simply point out... "You conceded the game. If you wanted me to shoot with ball in hand, you should have just handed me the cue ball."
 

California Fats

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Someone did this to me during a (non-APA) league match. I called our tournament director over, and he ruled it as a loss of game. Purposely pocketing the 9 to have it respotted is good strategy in certain cases. Doing what this guy did is complete BS
 

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What everyone said here is perfectly accurate if you were playing an organized competition. You're not. You're gambling and how you handle this situation might get you a proper ruling but you could lose your customer. You said you consistently make money off him each week? I would simply ask him, "What are you doing?" In other words, let him know that his actions confused you and that's normally not done. He might say, "The 9 gets spotted" or something like that and let him get away with it. Then, after the session, say to him, "Hey, when I usually play against other people, you actually have to shoot the 9 in with the cue ball in order for it to be spotted." Try to say this as diplomatically as possible as though to say, "I think that's the correct way to play and I'd like to play that way."

If you throw the rulebook at him immediately, you risk losing the game entirely and I don't think you want to do that. You're making money off him anyway, let him make up his own rules if he wants to.
 
Top