Snooker Players & Their Elbow

Dudley

Dudley

english happy
Silver Member
Neil said:
The tip only stays in contact with the cb for .001 seconds. What the cue does after that is immaterial. Most pros do not move their elbow until after contact with the cb.

Look at your diagram again real close. On the no elbow drop one, the cue remains level for several inches before contact to several inches after contact. That is all that is needed. The cue is level upon contact.

By dropping your elbow before contact, you require the co-ordination of a lot more muscles to keep that cue straight. Thereby making it much easier for something to go wrong. Best to move as little as possible, which the pendulum or no elbow drop stroke does.

After the contact with the cb, it doesn't matter for the shot what you do with the arm. It has no effect on the shot. Some prefer to drop their elbow after contact because it feels more natural to them. Some prefer to not drop the elbow and just continue the stroke to it's natural finish. The key is to not drop before contact for the most reliable stroke.

As far as the bridge length, with your arm at 90 degrees to the cue, your tip should be right at the cb. If you do this, then how far you bridge from the cb doesn't matter technically. But, the farther away you are, the easier for little tiny movements in your back hand to affect where you actually hit the cb.
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Neil,

It is obvious you have spent much time thinking about your fundamentals and have decided what is correct for you. I don't disagree with anything you have to say (it makes allot of sense) except that not everyone will fit your definition of a correct stroke. If someone was learning pool from the start, following your advice would be beneficial.


I have allot of elbow movement in my stroke but I wouldn't say it is a good or a bad thing. I never even thought about my elbow when i was learning. From my perspective the only thing that really matters is that you have an accurate repeatable stroke and true command of your cue ball.

Dudley
 
Dudley

Dudley

english happy
Silver Member
Neil said:
The tip only stays in contact with the cb for .001 seconds. What the cue does after that is immaterial. Most pros do not move their elbow until after contact with the cb.

Look at your diagram again real close. On the no elbow drop one, the cue remains level for several inches before contact to several inches after contact. That is all that is needed. The cue is level upon contact.

By dropping your elbow before contact, you require the co-ordination of a lot more muscles to keep that cue straight. Thereby making it much easier for something to go wrong. Best to move as little as possible, which the pendulum or no elbow drop stroke does.

After the contact with the cb, it doesn't matter for the shot what you do with the arm. It has no effect on the shot. Some prefer to drop their elbow after contact because it feels more natural to them. Some prefer to not drop the elbow and just continue the stroke to it's natural finish. The key is to not drop before contact for the most reliable stroke.

As far as the bridge length, with your arm at 90 degrees to the cue, your tip should be right at the cb. If you do this, then how far you bridge from the cb doesn't matter technically. But, the farther away you are, the easier for little tiny movements in your back hand to affect where you actually hit the cb.
Click to expand...

I might try to make an animation of the stroke you describe: Elbow drop after contact. I am not sure If I know how to but it would be a fun challenge.
I am using autodesk inventor (a cad program) and I am not sure if I know the tools well enough make this animation.

I can see how you would feel this is the proper way to hit the ball.

Dudley
 
Cornerman

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
Philthepockets said:
I don't consider what most modern players do as a true elbow drop, this is an elbow drop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ2wlxQHbVg
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This is a pretty good video to show "dropping after contact." At first look, it looks like he was dropping during or before contact. But, in the views that you can hit pause (e.g., 1:30), you can clearly see the white in motion just prior to the elbow's dramatic collapse.

Also notice Joe Davis' use of the closed bridge and way non-dominant eye shooting. His approach looks like a pool player.

Fred
 
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C

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
Scott Lee said:
Then WHY do you keep bringing up inane debates? The answer is always gonna be the same...different strokes for different folks. It seems like since you've been back, you've taken over Cocabolo's 'inane thread' role. Keep it up, and you'll go away again. :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Scott I do not understand why you brought me into to this thread, and you apparently upset a few folks by doing so. As I was PM about you twice. you must remember we all do not wear size 13 shoes, or agree your way is the only way. HAVE A NICE DAY! :wink:
 
Philthepockets

Philthepockets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cornerman said:
This is a pretty good video to show "dropping after contact." At first look, it looks like he was dropping during or before contact. But, in the views that you can hit pause (e.g., 1:30), you can clearly see the white in motion just prior to the elbow's dramatic collapse.

Also notice Joe Davis' use of the closed bridge and way non-dominant eye shooting. His approach looks like a pool player.

Fred
Click to expand...

That style of elbow drop was what Joe illustrated in his book and typical of that era and amongst billiard players, ie Rex Williams he was another Joe Davis clone.
 
Cornerman

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
Philthepockets said:
That style of elbow drop was what Joe illustrated in his book and typical of that era and amongst billiard players, ie Rex Williams he was another Joe Davis clone.
Click to expand...

I know that lots of people can get plenty of power without dropping that elbow at all. But, my feeling is that on certain power stroke shots, if you don't drop your elbow , you've got a potential for injury if something goes awry.

Fred
 
Philthepockets

Philthepockets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
pt109 said:
Thanx for the great video,never knew it existed.

Noticed that he used a closed bridge on a couple shots.
He recommended the loop bridge for power 'screw'.

I prefer to call them 'draw' .....
...I've screwed up enough shots without giving them a pet name :smile:
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Your welcome :)

Joe was well informed, he also spent some time in exhibitions with the likes of George Chenier but I don't know that he picked up the loop bridge from George.
 
pt109

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
He could only see out of one eye, according to him.
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Joe Davis had a lazy right eye.He was sometimes called One-Eyed Joe.
Two contemparies were also strong left-eyed.....
George Chenier -20 year N American snooker champ....and..
Willie Mosconi

I've always thought it was an edge to be opposite-eyed at golf or pool.
I'm right-eyed and right-handed like Feijen and the Pearl.
I consider this the only reason I can't give Efren the call 7.:rolleyes:
 
cuekev

cuekev

Thread killer
Silver Member
Philthepockets said:
I don't consider what most modern players do as a true elbow drop, this is an elbow drop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ2wlxQHbVg
Click to expand...

If you notice in this video Joe Davis's back hand is close to his shoulder when he is addressing the ball. There is no way for him to get a follow thru without dropping his elbow. If you choose to not drop your elbow and have your chin on the cue your back hand should be moved back further. Keeping your back forearm at a 90 degree angle with the cue @ cue ball address. This allows for more travel before you hit the shoulder.:smile:
 
JasonDevanney

JasonDevanney

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What you have to remember is that Joe's cue action was borne from playing English Billiards which was the game that Joe started playing before Snooker was popular (Snooker was only really played by the top billiards professional as an exhibition if they finished a Billiards session early).

Joe action was a short backswing and a "drive" of the forearm which means that the elbow has to drop.

Watch any cue action of a top Billiards professional from around the 1930's (Lindrum, Joe Davis, Newman, Reece, Fred Davis to name a few) and you'll see all of them dropping the elbow.

Even the top Billiards pro's today have, what I would call, an old fashioned cue action as English Billiards calls for a flowing action and you very rarely use a "punch" like action compared to Snooker players.

Check out englishbilliards.org in the video section for some great matches and you'll see why a cue action with plenty of follow thru and elbow drop is needed.
 
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