When does equipment make a difference?

dquarasr said:

I used to do road course race car tracking. I have instructed at over 120 track days. Constantly I encountered students (and others) whose primary focus was on the car: what mods should I make? Should I get (these brake pads) (these shocks) (this exhaust) (these sway bars)? My usual answer was "make the nut that holds the steering wheel as good as the car, then start improving the car."

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Similar to those questions, but not being particularly experienced with a wide variety of cue sticks, my question: When (or ever?) should someone interested in improving his or her game, invest in a "good" cue? How do we know when our equipment is holding us back?

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ShootingArts said:

You gave bad advice about the cars. There is absolutely no advantage to fighting a shltbox while you are trying to learn to drive. I started off dirt tracking in a half decent late model. In a few months I was competitive with anyone. A few years later my car wasn't finished for the start of the season and I was restless. Jumped into a lower class car when the owner offered it to me. The thing flexed where it shouldn't, the shocks were wrong and binding or locking up, worst of all when the poorly handling car got you in trouble there wasn't enough horsepower to get you back out. I would have struggled for several years had I started driving in a car like that.

I have competed at many things. I have never found it an advantage to start with crappy equipment in any pursuit. The time to buy first class equipment is as soon as you decide you are serious and have the money.

A cue doesn't need a bunch of inlays and ring work. It does need to have a well made butt and a carbon fiber shaft. You are going to have to learn how a low deflection shaft handles, might as start learning from day one!

Since we are using car analogies, an old saying is "if it don't go chrome it!" Competing, I would make sure it goes. There is so much difference between plain maple and the best low deflection shafts that an advanced beginner will feel like they are starting over again when they swap to low deflection. Start how you are going to finish. How many wooden racquets do you see on a tennis court?

Hu

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dquarasr said:

I used to do road course race car tracking. I have instructed at over 120 track days. Constantly I encountered students (and others) whose primary focus was on the car: what mods should I make? Should I get (these brake pads) (these shocks) (this exhaust) (these sway bars)? My usual answer was "make the nut that holds the steering wheel as good as the car, then start improving the car."

Similar to those questions, but not being particularly experienced with a wide variety of cue sticks, my question: When (or ever?) should someone interested in improving his or her game, invest in a "good" cue? How do we know when our equipment is holding us back?

(Disclaimer: I am a wildly inconsistent 350 USAPL / Level 4 APA player. I've played with a crappy cue at home, don't even know the brand name, can't make a shot, yet switch to an Adams and can make the same shots - In my head or something real?)

Thanks for the responses. I have found this site to be a wealth of appreciated information.

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Ken_4fun said:

I disagree with the original poster. I am not saying they need to spend $10K on cue, but I think a solid cue for $500-1000 bought on the secondary market would be the best bet.

I think shaft taper, and tip being the most important of all. The second thing would be playing with the same cue for a period of time. You weren't driving a different race car each time you raced did you?

I have heard for 30 years about "road players" playing with a cue off the rack and not playing with even a sneaky pete. To me, that is the most amazing thing and makes it a little hard to believe for me. My thought is unless the old time pool halls took a lot better care of their "house" cues, the house cues in the places I play have terrible tips and play like logs.

Examples would be for budget minded would be a Rick Howard cue with a great tip. I use Moori soft usually but any would be fine as long as it taken care of.

I play leagues and see folks ask for advice on cues, and the people are getting terrible recommendations, IMO. I don't jump into their discussions unless asked. Why anyone would buy a factory cue new verses getting a great custom on secondary market stuns me. They still sell a lot of Meucci cues, which tells me JT Barnum was right....a sucker is born every minute.

Ken

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ChicagoRJ said:

Not sure why that "stuns" you.

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Matt_24 said:

You DON'T need a low deflection shaft. You just need to learn and get used to the cue you have. You will taper and fine-tune your own shaft over time.

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DecentShot said:

Not sure what you mean here (taper?), but the point of a LD shaft is so you don't have to fine tune around squirt.

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Ken_4fun said:

I disagree with the original poster. I am not saying they need to spend $10K on cue, but I think a solid cue for $500-1000 bought on the secondary market would be the best bet.

I think shaft taper, and tip being the most important of all. The second thing would be playing with the same cue for a period of time. You weren't driving a different race car each time you raced did you?

I have heard for 30 years about "road players" playing with a cue off the rack and not playing with even a sneaky pete. To me, that is the most amazing thing and makes it a little hard to believe for me. My thought is unless the old time pool halls took a lot better care of their "house" cues, the house cues in the places I play have terrible tips and play like logs.

Examples would be for budget minded would be a Rick Howard cue with a great tip. I use Moori soft usually but any would be fine as long as it taken care of.

I play leagues and see folks ask for advice on cues, and the people are getting terrible recommendations, IMO. I don't jump into their discussions unless asked. Why anyone would buy a factory cue new verses getting a great custom on secondary market stuns me. They still sell a lot of Meucci cues, which tells me JT Barnum was right....a sucker is born every minute.

Ken

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ChrisinNC said:

Even for an LD shaft, you still have to allow for deflection in your aiming process, just not as much. There is absolutely no shaft that has zero deflection when you are striking a round cue ball to the left or right of dead center.

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Bavafongoul said:

First and foremost is practicing with a good house cue.
Find one in the best condition and start with a 19 oz cue.

From there it will be easy to go up in weight or down as
you might want to experiment to see what you like most.

The next progression would be to get your own SP cue.
Spend a few hundred and get a good one. It will last you
a lifetime until you are ready to get into more elaborate,
better made cues. Just what are those? Well, along the
way you are going to learn more about cues so don’t try
to rush your education by relying on the opinion of others.


Matt B.

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dquarasr said:

I used to do road course race car tracking. I have instructed at over 120 track days. Constantly I encountered students (and others) whose primary focus was on the car: what mods should I make? Should I get (these brake pads) (these shocks) (this exhaust) (these sway bars)? My usual answer was "make the nut that holds the steering wheel as good as the car, then start improving the car."

Similar to those questions, but not being particularly experienced with a wide variety of cue sticks, my question: When (or ever?) should someone interested in improving his or her game, invest in a "good" cue? How do we know when our equipment is holding us back?

(Disclaimer: I am a wildly inconsistent 350 USAPL / Level 4 APA player. I've played with a crappy cue at home, don't even know the brand name, can't make a shot, yet switch to an Adams and can make the same shots - In my head or something real?)

Thanks for the responses. I have found this site to be a wealth of appreciated information.

Click to expand...

Andrew Manning said:

The car analogy is an interesting one, it's very inapplicable in many ways, but it still holds a good nugget of truth, that too many people are focusing on the equipment rather than the technique.

For one thing, cue performance is not like cars. Lewis Hamilton, lapping the same track, first with a Prius, then a Miata, then a Corvette, then a McLaren, then a GT3 cup car, then an F1 car, will lap significantly and repeatably faster with each car change. SVB, playing pool on the same table, will play about the same with ANY cue with a good tip and an LD shaft. Cues don't really play better or worse than other cues, they're just more or less to a given player's liking.

For another thing, which type of cue you learned on when you were a beginner makes a big difference in which type of cue you'll play best with as an intermediate or expert player. Speaking specifically about solid maple shafts vs. low-deflection shafts. This is like telling a beginner driver to wait until they are as fast as they can possibly get with their Civic before buying that Corvette. Sure, there's a lot to be said for it, but when they get the Corvette they may find themselves way behind the curve since they've never driven a RWD car. Their throttle control and how to handle the car at the edge of traction under power that they learned in a FWD car is not necessarily applicable to RWD, and they may have to un-learn a lot of it now. This is a little like the struggle many players have switching to an LD shaft. In my opinion, the best time to switch to LD is as early as possible in your pool development.

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Ken_4fun said:

It stuns me that you can get an absolutely great playing cue on the secondary market for same price new POS Meucci, or other, and they still buy the Meucci.

Ken

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dquarasr said:

I used to do road course race car tracking. I have instructed at over 120 track days. Constantly I encountered students (and others) whose primary focus was on the car: what mods should I make? Should I get (these brake pads) (these shocks) (this exhaust) (these sway bars)? My usual answer was "make the nut that holds the steering wheel as good as the car, then start improving the car."

Similar to those questions, but not being particularly experienced with a wide variety of cue sticks, my question: When (or ever?) should someone interested in improving his or her game, invest in a "good" cue? How do we know when our equipment is holding us back?

(Disclaimer: I am a wildly inconsistent 350 USAPL / Level 4 APA player. I've played with a crappy cue at home, don't even know the brand name, can't make a shot, yet switch to an Adams and can make the same shots - In my head or something real?)

Thanks for the responses. I have found this site to be a wealth of appreciated information.

Click to expand...

TATE said:

An Adam cue is all you need to get you to there. The cue doesn't matter as much to the APA 4 as it does a 7. An Adam or a $100 Player's cue or at most an entry level $300 LD cue like Poison will carry you all the way up the ladder.

The APA 4 is mostly trying to make shots and playing natural position (if playing position at all). The cue matters much more when you become more precise at cue ball control. Eventually you should start hitting more shots with English, draw and follow - then it matters. When you can start playing precision shape, then things like balance and feel make a much greater difference.

Never have a I seen a sport where players try to "buy" a game more than golf. They cycle through $300 putters like they're nothing. A 30 handicap golfer buying a $2,000 set of custom irons is a waste of money.

I do suggest getting an LD Cue like the $300 Poison Arsenic. At least then when you do improve, you will be accustomed to a low squirt shaft. If playing rather than collecting is your game, the big money is better spent on practice, lessons, and a home table.

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