My table doesn't like to draw

Of course it does draw but not like so many others I play on.

It has always been hard to draw on my 88" Beach table. Not just for me, hard for everyone who plays on it. I had Simonis 860 cloth and switched to Simonis 760 thinking the extra nylon would cause it to be more "slippery". The cloth looks exactly like what I replaced. It has no sheen as I expected the 760 to have. I felt like the supplier had some tan 860 in stock and assumed I would not know the difference so shipped me 860. There was nothing to sow it was 760 or even Simonis except the invoice and a Simonis Spot Marker. It may well be I don't know the difference but there does not seem to actually be any difference.

The cloth is "relatively tight". As tight as we could stretch it. I also steam clean it so that should keep it pretty tight, assuming the wool would shrink a little. Maybe we were just not able to stretch it correctly to begin with.

I understand draw is technique but I am the same player on other tables and the cue ball comes flying back at me. I hit a full table stop shot and the ball unexpectedly backs back two feet.

There are some full table down and back drills which are almost impossible on my table. With a perfect hit it can be done but not reliably.

Anyway the ball set came with the table and I have no clue what they are. I am using a 3 red dot Arimith cue ball but the rest are whatever they are. I am considering buying a new set of Arimith balls to see if that matters.

My questions are about which mechanical factors affect draw the most:
1. Table construction or quality of the slate - not much I can do there
2. Cloth
3. Cloth installation
4. Cue ball
5. Ball set

I might get a new set of balls just for the sake of quality, even if they would not change the draw response. If so what set would you recommend?

Addition.

I just contacted Simonis to find out about my cloth, offered to send a swatch to find out what it is. Here is there reply

You can get a hand held black light and hold it close to the cloth in the center .. there is an invisible ink tag that runs every 3 ft down the center of the cloth .. you can call or email me with the number and I will tell you what you have ..

How cool is that? Of course all of you probably already know about this but it is rocket science to me.

garczar said:

That is the "play" side. If you don't see it the cloth is on upside-down.

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Wow I wonder if we installed it upside down. I guess I will learn when I try the black light. I believe there was a clear instruction on which side went down but don't remember now for sure.

Would installing it upside down leave a rougher surface facing up which would in turn increase the friction?

SlateMate said:

the cloth comes with a tag indicating "up". but if you look closely you can tell the difference. look underneath at the side overhang with a flashlight of the underside of the cloth.

if you are in Arizona and playing on new simonis, it's not the table or the cloth. even upside down simonis will play fast in dry air.

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That leaves
1. Not stretched tight enough - is there a simple test for that?
2. Ball set

Which ball set would you recommend?

I read a few reviews but they are likely written to favor whomever they rate as number one. One such review rated Cyclops #1 with Aramith Crowne #2 which made no sense to me since the Crowne is the least expensive Aramith line. The Pro was rated #5 or so. Aramith has so many sets, Crowne, Pro, Premium, Pro Tournament, Pro Tournament Cup,
The most expensive set says"Made with Duramith resin formulation, a hi-tech engineered molecular structure that enhances the longevity of the balls while minimizing significantly table cloth wear" and boasts 40 years life on residential table. I won't last 40 years so that isn't meaningful to me. I just want a great playing set.

realkingcobra said:

Get some Johnsons paste floor wax, clean and shine the cue ball with it, then report back with your results.

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I actually made a ball polisher and polished the entire set a few months ago. I used automotive car wax. They are nice and shiny but don't play differently.

I will use the Johnsons paste floor wax to see if that helps and report back.

bradsh98 said:

Were you able to determine that it is actually Simonis cloth? Even 860 installed loose should yield pretty good draw. Unless it is upside-down... You said that there was no marking on the cloth at all. That is concerning, as all Simonis cloth has the logo and grade on one edge of it. You would have seen this when you installed the cloth.

I don't care where the table is located.. Upside-down Simonis plays like doo-doo.

Is your current ball set dirty? If so, that could be the problem. If you want a new ball set, many people do not care for the way that Cyclop balls play, in comparison to Aramith. When looking at Aramith sets, you will likely be happy with any of their offerings, though I tend to prefer the Premium and beyond sets. Though, for the most part, any set will play pretty well, if they are clean. Cheaper sets have nuances that can be annoying: everything from aesthetics, to roll, to durability concerns.

Just remember, the cheaper the ball set, the harder it is to keep them polished to a high luster.

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Aramith has the Premium $164, Pro $262, and Tournament Pro $340 and the new Pro Tournament Cup $387.

Where should I draw the line?

bradsh98 said:

Were you able to determine that it is actually Simonis cloth? Even 860 installed loose should yield pretty good draw. Unless it is upside-down... You said that there was no marking on the cloth at all. That is concerning, as all Simonis cloth has the logo and grade on one edge of it. You would have seen this when you installed the cloth.

I don't care where the table is located.. Upside-down Simonis plays like doo-doo.

Is your current ball set dirty? If so, that could be the problem. If you want a new ball set, many people do not care for the way that Cyclop balls play, in comparison to Aramith. When looking at Aramith sets, you will likely be happy with any of their offerings, though I tend to prefer the Premium and beyond sets. Though, for the most part, any set will play pretty well, if they are clean. Cheaper sets have nuances that can be annoying: everything from aesthetics, to roll, to durability concerns.

Just remember, the cheaper the ball set, the harder it is to keep them polished to a high luster.

Click to expand...

I have to locate a hand held black light to check the cloth. I seem to remember a "this side down" sticker or something but nothing that said Simonis. I believe whatever it is we go right side up but will confirm.

Built a ball polisher and used rejuvenator and then auto wax but that did not change the play noticeably. I am going to try the Johnson's floor wax mentioned above.

SlateMate said:

push on it with your hand and see if it easily bunches. but like everyone else, i don't think it's your cloth and i don't think that it's your polish job either or the type of wax you use. any polished pool ball on dry, new simonis will draw to china. i think it's your stroke. combine a bad stroke with a thick shaft and you have draw issues. go with a 12.5mm shaft with a well groomed tip and snap your stroke.

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I anticipated this response as it is what I would have told someone myself.

However, my stroke being whatever it is when I am on different equipment the response is incredibly different. The cue ball WAY over draws from what I am used to. I can easily draw corner to corner and back. The cue ball action seems crazy to me after playing on my table so much.

Also other players who play on my table have the same problem. They go to the league matches and over draw everything. We even checked to be sure the cue ball wasn't undersized at the league. The difference is substantial.

Understand. I can draw the ball full table corner to corner and back on my table but it is really hard to do and requires a perfect hit. On other tables I can do it with no problem. So whatever my stroke produces, it is totally different on some equipment. I can even draw it well on fuzzy bar cloth. The only other time it is similar is on a bar table with the big cue ball. That is about how my table plays.

SlateMate said:

push on it with your hand and see if it easily bunches. but like everyone else, i don't think it's your cloth and i don't think that it's your polish job either or the type of wax you use. any polished pool ball on dry, new simonis will draw to china. i think it's your stroke. combine a bad stroke with a thick shaft and you have draw issues. go with a 12.5mm shaft with a well groomed tip and snap your stroke.

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When I steam clean it the vacuum action will make a small ripple but it is pretty strong suction and I am dragging pretty hard.

realkingcobra said:

Just do the test I told you, then you'll understand why I had you do it.

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I will. In fact I will try today. I am pretty good at following advice. Especially when I am about to spend $200-300 on a new set of balls.

realkingcobra said:

Just do the test I told you, then you'll understand why I had you do it, or just call me, 702-927-5689

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Should I polish the whole set or just the cue ball? I am off to buy some Johnson's floor wax.