side pocket break?
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alphadog
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side pocket break? - 05-14-2009, 03:53 PM

Having recently tried to play 14.1 ,it occured to me that my break shots
to the side pocket were quite a bit better then breakshots to the bottom
corner pockets.I say this after hitting the rack in many different places,many different angles,and at various speeds.Many racks seemed to open up and then balls would return to the approximate area they had left
leaving little to work with.Breakshots to the sidepocket seemed to open
up and move balls to open areas.
I question my limited findings as I seem to recall reading about breakball-
shots to the sidepocket as about as desirable as a "shotgun wedding" for
one's daughter! The great Mosconi said that Ponzi liked "them" but he wasn't a fan.Holliday said they were probably the result of "poor pattern
play or poor execution, or most likely both".
Is it possible that todays equipment has improved the value of the side
pocket breakball? Perhaps Holliday is correct and if my play was better I wouldn't have subjected you to reading this?


A bull without horns is still dangerous.

Law of logical arguement-Anything is possible when you dont know what you are talking about.

  
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05-14-2009, 06:00 PM

I like behind the rack break shots quite a bit. Side pocket break shots absolutely do open the rack very well and the chances of a CB scratch are slim to none also.

My only problem with the side pocket break is that the reality of the side pockets having a tendency to reject balls at times in strange ways puts that tiny little touch of doubt in my mind when I'm pulling the trigger and that is not a good feeling to have going into any shot. Again, that's just me.
  
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05-14-2009, 10:17 PM

I like side pocket breaks because they're unmissable for me. I can dog corner breaks (even easy angles) all day but I'm not gonna miss the side pocket break.

Not sure which kind of side pocket breaks we're talking though. There's the kind where the cue ball is maybe somewhere in the kitchen, and the OB is just between the sides, maybe a foot or two from the hole... then there's the kind where your object ball is near the standard break ball position, and you have an angle to play it into the side from the short side.

The first kind can definitely scratch off the side of the rack so you need to make sure you hit the top two balls, which sometimes requires hitting towards the fat side of the pocket or drawing just right. Of course you can also drill a ball into the side and let the CB go one or two rails into the back of the rack, but that's a recipe for disaster.

I like situations where I can see a reasonable side pocket hanger and I just need to play to leave the cue ball either in the rack or almost anywhere in the kitchen.
  
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Side pocket breaks
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Side pocket breaks - 05-15-2009, 05:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphadog View Post
Having recently tried to play 14.1 ,it occured to me that my break shots
to the side pocket were quite a bit better then breakshots to the bottom
corner pockets.I say this after hitting the rack in many different places,many different angles,and at various speeds.Many racks seemed to open up and then balls would return to the approximate area they had left
leaving little to work with.Breakshots to the sidepocket seemed to open
up and move balls to open areas.
I question my limited findings as I seem to recall reading about breakball-
shots to the sidepocket as about as desirable as a "shotgun wedding" for
one's daughter! The great Mosconi said that Ponzi liked "them" but he wasn't a fan.Holliday said they were probably the result of "poor pattern
play or poor execution, or most likely both".
Is it possible that todays equipment has improved the value of the side
pocket breakball? Perhaps Holliday is correct and if my play was better I wouldn't have subjected you to reading this?
Side pocket breaks are very good to use but you need to watch out for the cue ball scratching in the corner pocket off the rack. Another thing that is deadly and this takes practice not letting this happen. Shooters will watch the cue ball to see it's path as it travels to the rack and miss object ball in the side. I have seen and I have done this myself in the pass. You must train yourself not to watch the cue ball until that object ball goes in.
  
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rejected balls
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rejected balls - 05-15-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3andstop View Post
I like behind the rack break shots quite a bit. Side pocket break shots absolutely do open the rack very well and the chances of a CB scratch are slim to none also.

My only problem with the side pocket break is that the reality of the side pockets having a tendency to reject balls at times in strange ways puts that tiny little touch of doubt in my mind when I'm pulling the trigger and that is not a good feeling to have going into any shot. Again, that's just me.
Table I often play on spits balls back out of any and all pockets!!
Some shots to the side did result in good "behind the rack" breaks
due to the use of two rails. I know scratches loom in this break but with a little foresight great results are achieved with minimal risk.


A bull without horns is still dangerous.

Law of logical arguement-Anything is possible when you dont know what you are talking about.

  
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05-15-2009, 05:16 PM

I guess there are lots of different side pocket breaks. The one I was speaking of is exampled in "A". The next one in "B" needs lots of draw to avoid scratching and I'm not crazy about that one ...

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05-15-2009, 11:24 PM

Yeah, A is the one I'm thinking of where you can hit it as hard as you want and there's no way to scratch. Can get stuck maybe if you nancy it.

I am fond of B. The way you have it diagrammed, you can actually pound it dead center, cheating the pocket towards the fat side, and hit the 14 right on the nose. If you do this and draw it's possible to accidentally miss the whole rack. I like hitting the shot a little thinner and using draw to try to catch one of the head balls. When the CB is already moving backwards I feel a little less worried about the scratch. Ideal is when the OB is like 6 inches away from the center line, and you have CB anywhere in the kitchen, and you can set it up to cut the OB thin into the side, and drill into the top of the rack with full force center (or top). It's almost like smashing them with an 8 ball type of break.
  
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05-18-2009, 07:53 AM

About side pocket breaks, I like to shoot them this way so I avoid any issues with scratching off the side of the rack. I can really stroke the ball and it acts like a typical behind-the-rack break shot using top-outside spin to advance back to the center of the table.

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05-18-2009, 09:49 AM

Man, even though that's safer you couldn't pay me enough to hit it like that.

cuz then you must control the amount of draw and sidespin carefully enough to clip a corner. A little too much and you miss the whole rack. Too little side and you hit the bottom of the rack closer to the middle and can get stuck.

Maybe since you can hit it as hard as you want, getting stuck won't happen as much as I think it does.
  
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05-18-2009, 11:05 AM

Here is another type of side pocket break shot, demonstrated by the late Pat Howey. I have more video of Pat using this break shot at the DCC Straight Pool Challenge a few years ago.

Pat Howey Side Pocket Break Shot


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the truth
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the truth - 05-18-2009, 03:07 PM

cuz then you must control the amount of draw and sidespin carefully enough to clip a corner. A little too much and you miss the whole rack. Too little side and you hit the bottom of the rack closer to the middle and can get stuck.


Really isn't this true of any break? I'm not making fun of you,just
pontificating on the difficulty of this great game.
When I have time I will cue table some sidepocket breaks that I feel good about.thanks Jack


A bull without horns is still dangerous.

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05-19-2009, 04:26 PM

alpha - true, I just feel behind the rack break shots are to be avoided. It's easier to get stuck hitting the bottom edge of the stack vs. hitting the other 2 edges... and you're less likely to get back to the middle of the table. I was watching a video not to long ago with .. .I think it was Steve Lipsky. Whatever happened to that guy? Anyway he was just going on about how much those bottom of the rack shots just suck =) Basically he sounded like you should avoid it all costs. I certainly don't have any luck with them, maybe you hit em better than I am.
  
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