CTE Visual Question

An aiming system is a tool...not a religion

Dan White said:

You agreed with me about my Bruce Lee comment and I thought hell had frozen over. Now you make a post that I agree with 100% along the same lines. Wow! Of course you realize that you are pretty much describing the HAMB method...

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The player who hits a million balls (HAMB) using a precise, proven, consistent aiming system, has the edge over a player who just hits a million balls WITHOUT a precise, proven, consistent aiming system.
All things being equal, the player with the system won't have to hit a million balls before his/her game jumps into a new level. It will require less time.
There are a number of aiming systems in existence. All an individual has to do is pick out one that works good for him and get into the training with it.
THEN comes the sweat equity.
(without the sometimes needless and boring arguments about "which system is better than the other one").
All of which reminds me of the old stuff about which car is better...Ford or Chevrolet? Which girls are more fun...blondes, redheads, or brunettes? Which political party is better for the country...democrats or republicans?
It can go on forever.

Low500 said:

The player who hits a million balls (HAMB) using a precise, proven, consistent aiming system, has the edge over a player who just hits a million balls WITHOUT a precise, proven, consistent aiming system.
All things being equal, the player with the system won't have to hit a million balls before his/her game jumps into a new level. It will require less time.
There are a number of aiming systems in existence. All an individual has to do is pick out one that works good for him and get into the training with it.
THEN comes the sweat equity.
(without the sometimes needless and boring arguments about "which system is better than the other one").
All of which reminds me of the old stuff about which car is better...Ford or Chevrolet? Which girls are more fun...blondes, redheads, or brunettes? Which political party is better for the country...democrats or republicans?
It can go on forever.

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The caveat is precise , proven and consistent aiming system .
If it's precise, proven and consistent, then you'll have thousands using it .
And you'd have hundreds who can explain it .

On the other side of that , you have instructors like Tor Lowry who does not bother teaching aiming systems . He teaches repetition . Shoot the same shot over and over again so you build muscle and visual memory of the shot .

Low500 said:

The player who hits a million balls (HAMB) using a precise, proven, consistent aiming system, has the edge over a player who just hits a million balls WITHOUT a precise, proven, consistent aiming system.
All things being equal, the player with the system won't have to hit a million balls before his/her game jumps into a new level. It will require less time.

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We can agree to disagree on that. We agree that hard work and putting in the time is required of anybody to achieve a high level of play. I'd say it is much more important to HAMB with a true stroke. If you can hit the cue ball where you want to, you don't need a system. It is trivial to know the correct spot to hit on the ball. Getting it there is the problem. Since new players can't get the cue ball to go where they want (but they think they can) they think they aimed wrong when many times they didn't. This gives false feedback to your memory and lengthens the time required to play well.

Maybe the best aiming system ever invented is simply hitting the cue ball from the head spot to the foot rail while trying to get the ball to come right back to the tip. If you can master that you're in good shape. To each his own, though.

Low500 said:

The player who hits a million balls (HAMB) using a precise, proven, consistent aiming system, has the edge over a player who just hits a million balls WITHOUT a precise, proven, consistent aiming system.

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Different players work best with different systems. Many, maybe most, work best with none. The claim that system users have a learning curve advantage is baseless. It could just as easily be the opposite.

pj
chgo

Patrick Johnson said:

Different players work best with different systems. Many, maybe most, work best with none. The claim that system users have a learning curve advantage is baseless. It could just as easily be the opposite.

pj
chgo

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I will say this, though, Patrick. Poolology is the only system I know that provably tells the player what fraction to aim at for any given shot. (Maybe Joe Tucker's system does that but it sounds cumbersome). If you teach a novice how to use Poolology and compare before and after results they do make more shots after using Poolology. In time the player naturally sees the shot angle needed without having to resort to the system. That has to shorten the learning curve. Although my evidence is more anecdotal I'd bet dollars to donuts that this would prove out in a real study.

Patrick Johnson said:

Different players work best with different systems. Many, maybe most, work best with none. The claim that system users have a learning curve advantage is baseless. It could just as easily be the opposite.

pj
chgo

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Welcome back.
I miss your diagrammatic pictures. Do you have one for HAMB?
Stay well and stay here.

Patrick Johnson said:

The claim that system users have a learning curve advantage is baseless.
pj
chgo

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I don't think it's useless. In fact there have been many testimonies that prove it's true. Have you yourself used a particular aiming system for a credible amount of time to prove your opinion? If so which one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvDDMHwJh3U

Right off the bat, same crap and cast of characters from 20 years ago and all the years in between. Nothing changes.

SpiderWebComm said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvDDMHwJh3U

Right off the bat, same crap and cast of characters from 20 years ago and all the years in between. Nothing changes.

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Dave, if you are offended or upset when not everybody believes 100% in GENERIC aiming systems, that means all of them, then you won't last long here. The forum has been perfectly civil over the last few months, if a little quiet, so let's not overreact to everything. Adults can have different opinions and be OK with that.

Low500 and I have actually agreed on a couple of posts and I think he does make some interesting posts here and there. Focus on the positive! :smile:

Dan White said:

We can agree to disagree on that. We agree that hard work and putting in the time is required of anybody to achieve a high level of play. I'd say it is much more important to HAMB with a true stroke. If you can hit the cue ball where you want to, you don't need a system. It is trivial to know the correct spot to hit on the ball. Getting it there is the problem. Since new players can't get the cue ball to go where they want (but they think they can) they think they aimed wrong when many times they didn't. This gives false feedback to your memory and lengthens the time required to play well.

Maybe the best aiming system ever invented is simply hitting the cue ball from the head spot to the foot rail while trying to get the ball to come right back to the tip. If you can master that you're in good shape. To each his own, though.

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Brilliant! And I think you're just the man to provide this study because of your passion and belief.

I think all the different pool games were invented because either an individual or a few individuals were flat out bored with the one game they were playing over and over and over again. Hence, there are many to choose from to test various aspects of skill level in pocketing balls, position play, banks, speed control, preplanning, hiding the CB in defensive play, etc. etc.

But nothing to develop or challenge the pure quality of the stroke itself.

I don't want to steal your idea, but I think you should consider starting pure "Stroke"
Leagues, Stroke Tournaments, Stroke gambling games, Stroke handicaps, and Stroke skill levels. Eventually even a Stroke Mosconi Cup. (Or should it be the WHITE Cup)

No balls needed except for the CB, a head spot properly aligned by laser, and the middle diamond of the end rail.

Who can make the CB come straight back to hit the tip of the cue the most times without a miss. There can be short sets to five, ten, twenty-five, and even one hundred or five hundred in National and World tournaments.

But the best thing is even beginners can do it without that damn other ball and a pocket muddying up the most important part of pool playing. However if they eventually get bored themselves with this game, they'll automatically be well prepared to jump into any game fully knowing and proving they can win because they've developed a pure reliable stroke.

Kinda like becoming a putt-putt champion provides someone the foundation for the rest of high level play to achieve world class level in golf.

Let's face it, even for PGA tour players, they take more shots accurately lining up and stroking balls straight with the putter than any one other single club in the bag during a round of golf.

I love this philosophy and don't know why anybody hasn't ever thought about it before for pool.

GO DAN!

Dan White said:

Dave, if you are offended or upset when not everybody believes 100% in GENERIC aiming systems, that means all of them, then you won't last long here.

ROTFLMAO! I won't last long here? Have you taken over the forum along with the other 3 or 4 brothers who have new rules as far as how the game is played, who runs the forum, and what can or can't be posted?

The forum has been perfectly civil over the last few months, if a little quiet, so let's not overreact to everything. Adults can have different opinions and be OK with that.

I guess you mean it was quiet when PJ was gone, correct? He was also the first one to post. Did you become a part time moderator as well to give warnings to me. Seems like I remember you getting a BAN yourself when it was "all quiet" along with multiple warnings. I wasn't here to interact with you. You did it all by your lonesome.

Low500 and I have actually agreed on a couple of posts and I think he does make some interesting posts here and there. Focus on the positive! :smile:

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I'm not so sure Low500 and you have agreed on posts you think you agreed upon.
He just chose not to pursue it.

Here's a novel idea, DON'T POST TO ME.

SpiderWebComm said:

I'm not so sure Low500 and you have agreed on posts you think you agreed upon.
He just chose not to pursue it.

Here's a novel idea, DON'T POST TO ME.

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Well I guess you told me what's what. I think you missed a few posts because Low and I actually did agree on a couple of different posts.

I am interested in CTE but seldom visit these CTE threads because it almost always just a back and forth of people arguing and insulting one another.

It would be beneficial to the discussion if that would change.