Ban John French from the commentary booth-PETITION

JCIN · Jan 17, 2016

JoeyA said:
Before I start, I understand how some people might think they have the right to their opinion about Frenchie's commentary and also, I did not listen to the commentary so I don't know what he said or didn't say except what I read here. From the many comments perhaps their is some validity to their claims that his commentary is not up to their standards of excellence.

THIS STORY in some ways reminds me of a time long ago at the infamous Sport Palace.

There was this "business guy" who was coming around the pool room for about 6 months. He owned a siding company and was a good guy who just loved pool and he loved gambling at pool. His pool game wasn't that great but he would match up with most anyone at the pool room and almost always lost. He took his beatings like a man, when he broke even he congratulated his opponent and when he did win, he didn't gloat about it or denigrate his opponent.

What he did do is pay off time and time again, regularly losing every week for nearly 6 months. Now the loss factor doesn't have anything to do with this story and is just some background information for you to form your own conclusions. The siding company owner would come in the pool room at least 2-3 times a week and this one week he comes in and one of the "scufflers" who felt he was being ignored by the siding company owner because the owner didn't want to gamble with this particular scuffler decides to open the business man's nose, figuratively speaking.

The scuffler then begins a merciless tirade, an ad hominem attack of Leviathan proportions on the owner of the company. The scuffler's words were meant to incite the owner to play and the words dug deep. Finally, the owner of the siding business told the scuffler and everyone in the pool room, how he didn't mind paying his dues. He told the scuffler, "The difference between you and I is that you are a parasite and I am a producer. You suck the very life out of pool and I try to put a little back into it." He left that day and never returned to pool or the Sport Palace.

JoeyA

See you think the moral of the story is that the one guy ruined it for everyone else by running the fish off....but the real moral of the story is that only in pool is a sucker getting wise considered to be a bad thing.

How would the story of went if a couple of players would taken the guy in the beginning and guided him to only games he was capable of winning and helping him along? I'm guessing thats not how it went down though. I'm also guessing if the siding guy was regularly heisting the local room denizens his leaving wouldn't of been remembered with such sadness.

robsnotes4u · Jan 17, 2016

Somebody please enlighten me as I do not follow stake horses. Who is John French, what does he do besides stake players?

Never mind saw it now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bicki · Jan 17, 2016

"not up to the standards for excellence" (of commentary)... When the challenge took place, at the same time the snooker masters in UK was held. I was watching many matches broadcast by BBC. Commentary was done in groups by two. All former superstars in snooker, like steve davis, stephen hendry, john parrot, ken doherty, shaun murphy and a couple more. to follow the event on BBC was a dream and definitely the bench-mark for excellence in commentary! I have no problem listen to them for many hours. It is even a delight to do so.

Ok, it is not fair to compare a bbc live tv event with the challenge match of ko and denis. Nevertheless, also we can do better! There are many people I have heard commentating on live streams. most were ok, some very good, only a few very bad. I see French as the wrong person in the booth for a longer period of time. He neither knows much about the game, nor adds to the entertainment factor of the broadcast. Since he is the one putting the money up - for which I am very very grateful - he deserves certain air time. no doubt for me. but he shud rethink his approach.

lost · Jan 17, 2016

Big deal. I had more people in my high school graduating class than watched the stream. What do you expect? Al Michaels?

JoeyA · Jan 18, 2016

No, you missed my point. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough.

It is sad that those who can afford to contribute to the pool room are driven out by blood suckers.

Even people who don't gamble or often driven away from pool by the scufflers calling them names and deriding them simply because the scuffler can't take advantage of them.

Contribute meaning, that they have money and can afford to spend or gamble with or not.

BTW, I never gambled with the siding guy, he played far below my ability even back then. I like action a little tougher than that.

If he would have stayed around longer, he would have learned more about how the pool room worked.

My core point is that ridiculing people drives people away from pool, whether they gamble or not. Maybe that is more clear to you.

JoeyA

JCIN said:
See you think the moral of the story is that the one guy ruined it for everyone else by running the fish off....but the real moral of the story is that only in pool is a sucker getting wise considered to be a bad thing.

How would the story of went if a couple of players would taken the guy in the beginning and guided him to only games he was capable of winning and helping him along? I'm guessing thats not how it went down though. I'm also guessing if the siding guy was regularly heisting the local room denizens his leaving wouldn't of been remembered with such sadness.

Cornerman · Jan 18, 2016

JoeyA said:
Before I start, I understand how some people might think they have the right to their opinion about Frenchie's commentary and also, I did not listen to the commentary so I don't know what he said or didn't say except what I read here. From the many comments perhaps their is some validity to their claims that his commentary is not up to their standards of excellence.

I don't want to dismiss or belittle your story. But if you actually heard the commentary, you would have never made this post. Guaranteed.

I don't feel good about bashing John French. His money, his rules. he brought a hell of a duo into the box. But, to even suggest that a lot of complaints are simply because "their is some validity to their claims that his commentary is not up to their standards of excellence" completely misses the mark.

Think of it like Fast Larry and how he single-handedly made us all quit RSB. Yes, he may have single-handedly turned off the already-small-number of people willing/able to pay for a $25 PPV. That would suck for Upstate Al if there's a continued relationship.

Add to it the idea that he has/had the Ko brothers in his stable along with Dennis, he's in the middle of turning off much of the side betting interest.

In your story, we are just as much the business owners trying to find enjoyment and putting money in the game but just got turned off.

JoeyA · Jan 18, 2016

I'm sorry but you can't compare Fast Larry to John French and I don't know either guy except by what I read on social media. That's not a fair comparison and I didn't have to listen to the commentary to know that.

If his commentary bothers a person, it would be just as easy to send him a Private Note on Facebook or PM on AZ Billiards if he is on here, explaining why you dislike his commentary and that if he continues doing commentary you won't be purchasing his streams.

I think these type of things can be done in private rather than on public forums like AZ Billiards ofr Facebook.

Just my opinion.

JoeyA

Cornerman said:
I don't want to dismiss or belittle your story. But if you actually heard the commentary, you would have never made this post. Guaranteed.

I don't feel good about bashing John French. His money, his rules. he brought a hell of a duo into the box. But, to even suggest that a lot of complaints are simply because "their is some validity to their claims that his commentary is not up to their standards of excellence" completely misses the mark.

Think of it like Fast Larry and how he single-handedly made us all quit RSB. Yes, he may have single-handedly turned off the already-small-number of people willing/able to pay for a $25 PPV. That would suck for Upstate Al if there's a continued relationship.

Add to it the idea that he has/had the Ko brothers in his stable along with Dennis, he's in the middle of turning off much of the side betting interest.

In your story, we are just as much the business owners trying to find enjoyment and putting money in the game but just got turned off.

BasementDweller · Jan 18, 2016

JoeyA,
When you do commentary do you expect those listening who enjoy your insight to ONLY send you private notices to inform you of such? Or is it only criticism that you would shuffle through your pm's looking for?

I think someone is too close to the forest here.

Cornerman · Jan 18, 2016

JoeyA said:
I'm sorry but you can't compare Fast Larry to John French and I don't know either guy except by what I read on social media. That's not a fair comparison and I didn't have to listen to the commentary to know that.

I'm saying it's a fair enough comparison so that someone like you who didn't hear him wouldn't put this into the "he wasn't up to their standard of excellence" statement. Your statement is completely not close. If you heard it Joey, you would NOT have posted your post. Guaranteed.

You've now seen a lot of people go out of their way to even ask to ban him. Why do you think that is? Ban???

9ball mike · Jan 18, 2016

The commentary was completely 1 sided and very biased towards Dennis. John French would comment on what the player was going to do and he was about as intelligent about his predictions as a race car driver trying to announce a NFL game. He may be the 1 putting up the money for them to play but I buy most of the streams and buy all of the big matches and I have never heard 1 of the backers get in the booth and turn the commentary into a completely 1 sided commentary the way John French did.

Dont forget that John French is betting on Dennis because he thinks Dennis will win, not because he is trying to put on a show for all of us. This situation is kind of like going to a restaurant and the owner coming out and constantly telling the customers how his Chef is the best in the world over and over until they can't even enjoy their meal anymore. Those paying customers have the right to voice their opinion, and have the right to know if the restaurant owner is going to be in there bothering them again before they decide do business with his restaurant again.

JoeyA · Jan 18, 2016

Perhaps you're right...or not.

I don't think threads such as this one do any good but everyone has a right to their opinion.

Mine is that denigrating someone who is apparently trying to do something right for pool is being raked over the coals is not in the best interest of pool.

Now, the accusations grow from poor commentary to include even more despicable things such as match fixing.

Maybe all of the things that people are accusing John French of, are correct but I don't know anything of the kind.

It just seems that regularly deriding people in the pool world and making innuendos about them is a common sport in social media. It's just not for me.:shrug:

JoeyA

BasementDweller said:
JoeyA,
When you do commentary do you expect those listening who enjoy your insight to ONLY send you private notices to inform you of such? Or is it only criticism that you would shuffle through your pm's looking for?

I think someone is too close to the forest here.

JoeyA · Jan 18, 2016

Cornerman said:
I'm saying it's a fair enough comparison so that someone like you who didn't hear him wouldn't put this into the "he wasn't up to their standard of excellence" statement. Your statement is completely not close. If you heard it Joey, you would NOT have posted your post. Guaranteed.

You've now seen a lot of people go out of their way to even ask to ban him. Why do you think that is? Ban???

I didn't hear his commentary but most commentators take a knock from someone who doesn't like his style, personality or talent. It seems like he may have gone overboard from the comments in this thread and other threads.

If his commentary was that bad and the accusations are true, then perhaps we need to tar and feather him and run him out of town on a rail. Yeah, that ought to do it. We've got all of the evidence in these different threads to convict him.

Oh what the hell, let's go ahead and hang him just after the tar and feathering. :smash::smash::smash:

JoeyA

JoeyA · Jan 18, 2016

Commentary is often biased. Look no further than the Mosconi Cup, which I enjoyed a great deal. Listen to any pool match and you will hear at least one of the commentators with a bias. It's just human nature.

Of course people have a right to complaining about his commentary but ultimately I don't think it is only about his commentary acumen. The other things he is being accused of are terrible things and no evidence to support them.

Look everyone, I am just not into ridiculing another person who is trying to do something for pool. This thread and the others will most certainly drive John French away from pool. These threads aren't about constructive criticism but a character assassination imo but I could be wrong.

Besides, it's John French's show.
JoeyA

9ball mike said:
The commentary was completely 1 sided and very biased towards Dennis. John French would comment on what the player was going to do and he was about as intelligent about his predictions as a race car driver trying to announce a NFL game. He may be the 1 putting up the money for them to play but I buy most of the streams and buy all of the big matches and I have never heard 1 of the backers get in the booth and turn the commentary into a completely 1 sided commentary the way John French did.

Dont forget that John French is betting on Dennis because he thinks Dennis will win, not because he is trying to put on a show for all of us. This situation is kind of like going to a restaurant and the owner coming out and constantly telling the customers how his Chef is the best in the world over and over until they can't even enjoy their meal anymore. Those paying customers have the right to voice their opinion, and have the right to know if the restaurant owner is going to be in there bothering them again before they decide do business with his restaurant again.

pt109 · Jan 18, 2016

Personally, as a player, I don't want a referee that has a financial interest in the outcome
of my match, whether it's for or against me.

I don't want to hear commentating under the same conditions....
...how can it not be biased?

Reminds me of a poker joke....
..the gentleman called...

...the &@$£%# SOB had ACES. :angry:

BasementDweller · Jan 18, 2016

Why would anybody get a pass on anything because "they are trying to do something for pool?"

There's an awful long list of people who have tried to do something for pool while the pool folks went silent because they thought or hoped that there was something in it for them.

If someone wants to do something for pool they should be put under the microscope, not be exempted from it.

GideonF · Jan 18, 2016

JoeyA said:
Commentary is often biased. Look no further than the Mosconi Cup, which I enjoyed a great deal. Listen to any pool match and you will hear at least one of the commentators with a bias. It's just human nature.

Of course people have a right to complaining about his commentary but ultimately I don't think it is only about his commentary acumen. The other things he is being accused of are terrible things and no evidence to support them.

Look everyone, I am just not into ridiculing another person who is trying to do something for pool. This thread and the others will most certainly drive John French away from pool. These threads aren't about constructive criticism but a character assassination imo but I could be wrong.

Besides, it's John French's show.
JoeyA

The criticism of his commentary started long before anyone knew anything about his potential deal with the Ko brothers, so it is not (I think) about that at all. He is (a) bad at commentary; and (b) completely biased (which of course is fine as long as he's not in the box).

I also think the comments got more pointed, and threads like this got started, because he did not take the hint and get out of the box.

And, as for "it's John French's show", that's only true if he put up all of the money for both players. Otherwise, he is just a backer and at most responsible for 1/2 of the show. I can also say that saying "It's Barry Behrman's show" when he went on for 30 minutes before the finals of the US Open would not, to me, have been an answer.

As far as I am concerned, whoever has the final call on the SVB-Dennis stream can decide if they want or need to have French in the booth and the rest of us can vote with our wallets.

Gideon

DirtyJersey · Jan 18, 2016

Black-Balled said:
Yep...typical pool.

Biting the hand that feeds it.

Go ahead, piss all over the Patron until he decides to walk away.

+1 If he wants to reenact the scene from Dumb and Dumber of the most annoying sound then by all means do so. Me personally I am not a potato and know how to control my volume knob so if there is something I don't like to hear I have the ability to lower it. If John reads this I just want to send him out a big thank you for his contribution to action in the pool world. I enjoyed watching 2 stellar pool players duke it out for 3 days for 10k which wouldn't have happened without his backing.

Fast Lenny · Jan 18, 2016

Commentary should definitely be neutral unless you had two guys betting against eachother doing the match then it might be fun to hear them BS. Upstate Al is great for pool and I enjoy his streams and contributions, glad to call him a friend. John French I believe is good for the game and I enjoyed the match but he would go on the mic for what seemed like 30 minutes of Dennis this and Dennis that not to mention that laugh which gave me nightmares.

JoeyA · Jan 18, 2016

Who do you think has the "final call" in the SVB-Dennis stream?

JoeyA

GideonF said:
The criticism of his commentary started long before anyone knew anything about his potential deal with the Ko brothers, so it is not (I think) about that at all. He is (a) bad at commentary; and (b) completely biased (which of course is fine as long as he's not in the box).

I also think the comments got more pointed, and threads like this got started, because he did not take the hint and get out of the box.

And, as for "it's John French's show", that's only true if he put up all of the money for both players. Otherwise, he is just a backer and at most responsible for 1/2 of the show. I can also say that saying "It's Barry Behrman's show" when he went on for 30 minutes before the finals of the US Open would not, to me, have been an answer.

As far as I am concerned, whoever has the final call on the SVB-Dennis stream can decide if they want or need to have French in the booth and the rest of us can vote with our wallets.

Gideon

JoeyA · Jan 18, 2016

I believe people who are trying to do something for pool SHOULD BE GIVEN SOME LEEWAY before hanging them in effigy.

Let's just see what kind of fruit his orchard bares and then you can roast him til he's good and crispy.

If the jury is already in and the verdict is guilty, let him pay the price. :shrug:

JoeyA

BasementDweller said:
Why would anybody get a pass on anything because "they are trying to do something for pool?"

There's an awful long list of people who have tried to do something for pool while the pool folks went silent because they thought or hoped that there was something in it for them.

If someone wants to do something for pool they should be put under the microscope, not be exempted from it.

Ban John French from the commentary booth-PETITION

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