CTE Journey

stockbob55

Registered
It was an off-night for me as I struggled on long-distance shots trying to decide ... should that be a 15-inside or a 45-outside (30 is not used for long-distance shots)?


I use 30 on long shots, they go in just fine.
Did I miss something, I don't remember Stan saying that?

What size table are you playing on?
 

sacman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Stan said on his DVD that shots beyond 5 diamonds are difficult with the 30.

I play on a 9 sometimes but mostly a 7. Doesn't matter for this 55 year-old with progressive lenses. It's hard to see long distances on the table.
 

stockbob55

Registered
Stan said on his DVD that shots beyond 5 diamonds are difficult with the 30.

I play on a 9 sometimes but mostly a 7. Doesn't matter for this 55 year-old with progressive lenses. It's hard to see long distances on the table.

30 degree perception long shots may be difficult and awkward but they do exist. Its possible that you have been missing about 33% of your long shots by using the wrong perception.

You are struggling to decide between a 15 and 45 because neither will "look" right.
 

sacman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I had an epiphany the other night thinking about how I can improve my CTE accuracy. Let me first say up front that I do not use the full-circle version as manual pivoting of any kind is appalling. I may move to that at some point but I have a long ways to go.

For over a year and a half I've been pocketing balls using the wrong CTE line. I've been lining up the top center of the cue ball with the side of the object ball. Thinking of the manual pivot process (I admit I bypassed that) made me realize the center of the cue ball to be aligned to the edge of the object ball begin with the center where the cue's tip goes if hitting exact center cue ball. There is a slight difference in the alignment that puts you slightly off if you begin with the top of the cue ball's center point vs. the middle area where the tip would be placed. I pocketed a lot of balls that way but it was very difficult to align and many times did not align perfectly - and thus missed more shots than seemed reasonable. I feel like an idiot but am glad I finally figured it out now. Once I started lining up using the center cue ball (mid center) my pocketing percentage went up immediately and it was MUCH easier to align. A nice feature of CTE is that once you are in full stance (down on the table) you can look at the tip of the cue. Stan said it is actually pointing slightly past the contact point (to account for throw) and it definitely does. I use that visual to check my alignment. Cue ball control: angle of reflection, speed, and ball sequence (order of balls - esp. during 8-ball games) etc. is what I am focusing more on since that has clearly become my weak spot - not pocketing balls.
 
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Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I had an epiphany the other night thinking about how I can improve my CTE accuracy. Let me first say up front that I do not use the full-circle version as manual pivoting of any kind is appalling. I may move to that at some point but I have a long ways to go.
For over a year and a half I've been pocketing balls using the wrong CTE line. I've been lining up the top center of the cue ball with the side of the object ball. Thinking of the manual pivot process (I admit I bypassed that) made me realize the center of the cue ball to be aligned to the edge of the object ball should be the literal center where the tip goes. There is a slight difference in the alignment that puts you slightly off. I pocketed a lot of balls that way but it was very difficult to align and many times did not align perfectly. I feel like an idiot but am glad I figured it out now. Once I started lining up using center cue ball (cue tip area) and not center top (horizon point) it became so much easier to align the visuals. My pocketing percentage went up immediately. A nice feature of CTE is that once you are in full stance (down on the table) you can look at the tip of the cue. It is actually pointing slightly past the contact point. I use that visual to check my alignment. Cue ball control - angle of reflection, speed, and ball sequence (during 8-ball games) etc. is what I am focusing more on since that has clearly become my weak spot - not pocketing balls.
Good that it's working out for you. It's an interesting journey.
Not sure I understand all that you mention here, but it does not matter what I understand.....what matters is that YOU understand and are getting success.
You mention the study of 'ball sequence'....I'm assuming you mean patterns of which ball is next to go, then to the next, and the next, and then get out clean and smooth.
In your training sessions, something that will REALLY help in recognizing those patterns is playing straight pool (14.1). Devote about an hour a day to that game, by yourself, and watch how the visualizing of the outs starts improving.
To me, the game of straight pool is boring as the dickens, but there is no doubt that it will improve your entire visualizing and procedures at the table.
Keep on punchin'..........:thumbup:
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I've been lining up the top center of the cue ball with the side of the object ball. ... the center of the cue ball to be aligned to the edge of the object ball should be the literal center where the tip goes. There is a slight difference in the alignment that puts you slightly off.
If your vision is aligned directly over the center-to-edge line, the two visualizations should be the same. Maybe your head position is a little off?

pj
chgo
 

sacman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If your vision is aligned directly over the center-to-edge line, the two visualizations should be the same. Maybe your head position is a little off?

pj
chgo

No - my head position is not off. I am left handed and right eye dominant. When I look down the center-to-edge line - center cue ball (cue's contact area) vs. the top center they are slightly different. It's called parallax. Someone - like me - with severe astigmatism, ghosting (caused from early catarax), and progressive lenses will have a lot of parallax issues. The CTE process puts me on the shot line - if done correctly.

The eyes (vision center), not my head position, tell me where to align (as long as my cue position is consistent with my vision center). The proof is in the outcome and frees me from over concentrating on head and feet movement - although the more I do the preshot routine consistently the more consistent those other aspects will be.
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No - my head position is not off. I am left handed and right eye dominant. When I look down the center-to-edge line - center cue ball (cue's contact area) vs. the top center they are slightly different. It's called parallax. Someone - like me - with severe astigmatism, ghosting (caused from early catarax), and progressive lenses will have a lot of parallax issues. The CTE process puts me on the shot line - if done correctly.
The eyes (vision center), not my head position, tell me where to align (as long as my cue position is consistent with my vision center). The proof is in the outcome and frees me from over concentrating on head and feet movement - although the more I do the preshot routine consistently the more consistent those other aspects will be.
I like the way your mind is working. It sounds like, to me, you're becoming (if not already) a very dangerous player...not to be trifled with.
I didn't think up the following guideline by myself. It came from Billy Johnson. It is something that will serve a player well, in my opinion.
He said.........."You must acquire enough knowledge and skill in your memory bank so when you start missing shots or position play you can DIAGNOSE quickly why it is happening, on your own, and then correct it on your own so you can get back into the groove right away without tinkering and compounding the trouble"
Sic 'em....:thumbup:
 

SmokinJoe46

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm a bit confused with your below statement of
"For over a year and a half I've been pocketing balls using the wrong CTE line. I've been lining up the top center of the cue ball with the side of the object ball. Thinking of the manual pivot process (I admit I bypassed that) made me realize the center of the cue ball to be aligned to the edge of the object ball begin with the center where the cue's tip goes if hitting exact center cue ball."
Are you visualizing looking through the CB center as if it was clear or see through verses the top of the CB center? If so, how is thet the wrong thing to do, or is just wrong as far as you're concerned due to your eye issues?
 

sacman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The eyes/vision center are where they are because of your head position. But think of it however works best for you.

pj
chgo

Ok - we are both correct but my focus is entirely on getting my eyes to lead me to the fixed center cue ball and eventually to the shot line. I don't think of moving my head or body then my eyes althought that is physically happening. My eyes lead.
 

sacman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm a bit confused with your below statement of Are you visualizing looking through the CB center as if it was clear or see through verses the top of the CB center? If so, how is thet the wrong thing to do, or is just wrong as far as you're concerned due to your eye issues?

I can see why until you actually experience it. Do this experiment (assuming you are a CTE user ... if you aren't then ... oh well):

1. Set up cue ball and object ball with a slight cut that requires a 15 degree perception. Move your body until you are able to see ETA (or C) and then CTE using the top point of the cue ball. I find that to be very difficult.

2. When you believe you have them aligned then shift your eyes to center cue ball (tip placement area). You should see that they are not in alignment because of parallax. You are standing to the side of each lines in order to see both edge-to-A(or C) and so the CTE line choices (cue tip point vs cue ball top) are slightly out of alignment.


Those darned spheres are tough: The top-most point of the cue ball is a verticle great circle. The center cue ball point - where the cue tip contacts - is part of a horizontal great circle. I believe this is why one works better than the other: The horizontal great circle is on the same plane as the contact point of the object ball. I'm no mathematician and yes, my eyes could be distorting the results but - heck - I know results when I see them. I'd quit playing pool if I had to go back to fractional or parallel aiming points.

CTE is easy to understand when you "get it" but difficult to describe via the written word.
 

SmokinJoe46

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can see why until you actually experience it. Do this experiment (assuming you are a CTE user ... if you aren't then ... oh well):
1. Set up cue ball and object ball with a slight cut that requires a 15 degree perception. Move your body until you are able to see ETA (or C) and then CTE using the top point of the cue ball. I find that to be very difficult.
2. When you believe you have them aligned then shift your eyes to center cue ball (tip placement area). You should see that they are not in alignment because of parallax. You are standing to the side of each lines in order to see both edge-to-A(or C) and so the CTE line choices (cue tip point vs cue ball top) are slightly out of alignment.
Those darned spheres are tough: The top-most point of the cue ball is a vertical great circle. The center cue ball point - where the cue tip contacts - is part of a horizontal great circle. I believe this is why one works better than the other: The horizontal great circle is on the same plane as the contact point of the object ball. I'm no mathematician and yes, my eyes could be distorting the results but - heck - I know results when I see them. I'd quit playing pool if I had to go back to fractional or parallel aiming points.

CTE is easy to understand when you "get it" but difficult to describe via the written word.
Thanks for the explanation.
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CTE is easy to understand when you "get it" but difficult to describe via the written word.
There you have it in one sentence. :cool:
Furthermore, learning it requires the intensive UN-learning of years and years of habit in playing pool....that in itself is a daunting challenge.
Then you have all the "it won't work" stuff from so many "experts", instructors, pool scientists, book writers, historians, bigots, coming at you from all sides.
But that is the nature of pool players.
As an "I told you so" , just look at the Mosconi worshipers who're already slowly but surely trying to diminish the accomplishment of John Schmidt in beating the stuffing out of Mosconi's high run record by 100 balls.
This is veryyyy strong==>"Those darned spheres are tough: The top-most point of the cue ball is a verticle great circle. The center cue ball point - where the cue tip contacts - is part of a horizontal great circle. I believe this is why one works better than the other: The horizontal great circle is on the same plane as the contact point of the object ball. I'm no mathematician and yes, my eyes could be distorting the results but - heck - I know results when I see them. I'd quit playing pool if I had to go back to fractional or parallel aiming points".<===you're a wise man, sir.
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
You are standing to the side of each lines in order to see both edge-to-A(or C) and so the CTE line choices (cue tip point vs cue ball top) are slightly out of alignment.
If your line of sight isn't directly on the CTE line, then neither tip point nor ball top can possibly line up visually with the edge of the OB. If your line of sight is directly on the CTE line, then both will. This fact has nothing to do with the CTE system - it's just simple spacial relationships that apply no matter what you're doing.

pj
chgo
 
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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
If your line of sight isn't directly on the CTE line, then neither tip point nor ball top can possibly line up visually with the edge of the OB. If your line of sight is directly on the CTE line, then both will. This fact has nothing to do with the CTE system - it's just simple spacial relationships that apply no matter what you're doing.

pj
chgo

It's sort of like staring at one of those 3D Magic Eye/Stereogram images, where you focus on one spot and then your brain picks up on the peripheral data that your eyes aren't directly focusing on. So even though you aren't standing/staring directly down the CTE or ETA lines, you can still manage to visualize both from one perspective.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
...even though you aren't standing/staring directly down the CTE or ETA lines, you can still manage to visualize both from one perspective.
Sure, you can "manage to visualize" both lines from any nearby perspective - that's a big part (not all) of the subjectivity in the system. The two lines don't "lead to" the shot - trial and error does that. The lines help record it in memory. The two-line memory aid, rationally understood, is something I like about the system.

pj
chgo
 
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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member

Yes, my bad...these magic eye images are called autostereograms, not stereograms. I have a vintage stereoscope (viewer) and it uses cards that have two images side by side, one from a left eye perspective and one from a right eye perspective. When looking through the viewer each eye sees a 2D image, which allows the brain to create the perception of depth (3D). It's a pretty cool trick that demonstrates how the eyes and brain function together when we look at something.
 
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