Quickest path for improvement: Drills, ghost or a mix of both?

What's the quickest path for improvement?

  • 99% Drills

    Votes: 1 4.5%

  • Mostly drills, a few games here and there

    Votes: 10 45.5%

  • Mostly ghost, drills on trouble shots

    Votes: 8 36.4%

  • Ghost all day long

    Votes: 3 13.6%
  • Total voters
    22
SamLambert

SamLambert

Daydreaming about pool
Silver Member
Hello AZB!

In the last month, I've been trying to practice drills a lot more instead of just playing, but I feel it doesn't help me as much. I think I was seeing better progress just by playing the ghost.

A conclusion I came to is that I should mostly play the ghost, and for the shots that I notice that I struggle constantly, practice a related drill.

What do you guys think? Which is better to improve quickly? Drills, ghost or a mix of both?

EDIT : Forgot the option "About as much of both", woops.
 
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Colonel

Colonel

Raised by Wolves in a Pool Hall
Silver Member
You need both as well as a healthy regular dose of match competition against more talented players.
 
SamLambert

SamLambert

Daydreaming about pool
Silver Member
Colonel said:
You need both as well as a healthy regular dose of match competition against more talented players.
Click to expand...

Damnit, I forgot the option for a mix of both, something 50/50.

Thanks for the info Colonel! Playing against better players is something I have the chance of being able to do :) There are a lot of very good players that play where I play! Playing against them is great, they often give me pointers and advice, it definitely helps.
 
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S

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You've left out an important element in seeking your goal...get some professional instruction, so you know your stroke and PSR's are solid. Otherwise you can play the ghost, and practice 'til the cows come home, and you may be doing nothing but ingraining bad habits. :D

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 
nfuids

nfuids

eh?
Silver Member
I think a mix of everything is perfect.

Do drills, ghost, league and competitive matches.

The important thing is to actually have a specific goal when playing. I mean, sometime, I don't feel like doing drills for hours.. so I opt to just break and run. But then I need to decide what do I wanna work on. Pattern play? 2-3 rails position shot? Just work on my stroke/feel? Safe play?

Once I decided on what I wanna work, I simply play, but making sure I concentrate on whatever I decided.

Shooting balls just for shooting balls is a waste of time. When I really don't want to think too much, I simply do that, but I work on my feeling, just a smooth stroke. When I miss a ball, I don't care, as long as my stroke was smooth, stayed down..
 
SamLambert

SamLambert

Daydreaming about pool
Silver Member
Scott Lee said:
You've left out an important element in seeking your goal...get some professional instruction, so you know your stroke and PSR's are solid. Otherwise you can play the ghost, and practice 'til the cows come home, and you may be doing nothing but ingraining bad habits. :D

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Hi Scott!

My fundamentals are something I pay a lot of importance to! I've read and been told countless times that they were super important so I did seek professional instruction regarding that. I'm starting to really like where they are at and I'm glad I didn't wait until after 2-3 years to start noticing I was shooting wrong at first.

But unfortunately, fundamentals only bring you so far, I am really bad a seeing some cut angles and predicting CB path, and I'm not sure what's the quickest way to improve those things.
 
SamLambert

SamLambert

Daydreaming about pool
Silver Member
nfuids said:
I think a mix of everything is perfect.

Do drills, ghost, league and competitive matches.

The important thing is to actually have a specific goal when playing. I mean, sometime, I don't feel like doing drills for hours.. so I opt to just break and run. But then I need to decide what do I wanna work on. Pattern play? 2-3 rails position shot? Just work on my stroke/feel? Safe play?

Once I decided on what I wanna work, I simply play, but making sure I concentrate on whatever I decided.

Shooting balls just for shooting balls is a waste of time. When I really don't want to think too much, I simply do that, but I work on my feeling, just a smooth stroke. When I miss a ball, I don't care, as long as my stroke was smooth, stayed down..
Click to expand...

Thanks nfuids!

This is great advice. I will keep that in mind so that when I feel like playing against the ghost, I play with more purpose than only pocketing the ball and getting decent position for the next ball.

You also reminded me that I really need to add a safe practice drill to my routine.
 
philly

philly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ghost works for me. But better than ghost is playing the best players you can match up with. You will learn more by watching and talking to better players than with anything, and I mean anything else. Your subconscious will absorb what they do and the pressure of playing better players (knowing that if you miss you will sit for a while) will season you for tournament, league, and money play.
 
Pete

Pete

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think drills are important (say 30 - 40% of what should be practiced).

The ghost is a practice drill, but should be done as well (20 - 30%).

And working on your mistake shots (100 time until it's good) (10 - 20%).

As for learning to play/win. I had my greatest success with this ratio:

25% playing someone who would beat me every game and to win I had to get a lucky roll.

25% playing someone would and did dominate as the previous players did to me.

50% of the time playing people who it was a flip of the coin who would win.

The first 25% made me mad and hungry. The second 25% I unleashed that anger and hungry. The last 50% made me compete.

Also pro instruction is good too. Plus some of the video instruction too.
 
boyersj

boyersj

Indiana VNEA State Champ
Silver Member
Sam,

What level ghost are you playing? Also what type of play are you using? Solid fundamentals should take you a LONG way. My bEat advice to quickly improve, get copies of table diagrams and take notes. Take pictures of layouts. Basically what I'm trying to say is use a method. Treat improving like a class. Ghost is like taking an exam, and recording results is important. But homework, which is where your notes and pictures can come into play (in addition to drills, because you will have to create your own homework) will be your fastest path to the next level.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
nfuids

nfuids

eh?
Silver Member
Anyways, not everyone learns the same way!

It is best to try different thing for yourself. And you may vary as well.
For me, I will work toward acquiring new skill for a number of weeks/months. In that period, my overall game is somewhat not at its top. I'm trying new stuff, I'm using this new stuff in league games and sometime, I miss because.. well, it's new stuff :)

After a while, I drop all that, try not to focus on that anymore and go back to basics. I work on my stroke, on my feeling, making sure I shoot straight and everything falls back in place and I see my game improved.

Then I would start over with another set of new skills I want to learn.

The cycle goes like this:
- Identify exactly what I want to work on
- Research it (ask around, watch DVDs, read on, etc.)
- Practice it at very slow speed for muscle memory to pick it up (for fundamental or anything mechanic)
- Practice it at different speed (5-10 per speed (soft, medium, hard) (for english, position play, etc)
- Consciously notice the difference
- Determine what reference shot is good for me (I would normally use my "normal" speed stroke)
- Go back to the various speed and notice how it differs from my reference shot
- Play some racks, choosing specific shot that would allow me to try all this new stuff and see if my finding still hold
- Re-adjust

I'd do that for 2-3 weeks, 1-2h a day, ideally by 15-25 min period, to avoid sending too much info to my silly brain :)


Most people will tend to work toward way too many things (IMHO) at once (think english, break, jump, bank, stroke, pattern play, etc). You need to develop a reference for all kind of stuff and then adjust around that when you play!

Hope this help :)
 
SamLambert

SamLambert

Daydreaming about pool
Silver Member
boyersj said:
Sam,

What level ghost are you playing? Also what type of play are you using? Solid fundamentals should take you a LONG way. My bEat advice to quickly improve, get copies of table diagrams and take notes. Take pictures of layouts. Basically what I'm trying to say is use a method. Treat improving like a class. Ghost is like taking an exam, and recording results is important. But homework, which is where your notes and pictures can come into play (in addition to drills, because you will have to create your own homework) will be your fastest path to the next level.
Click to expand...

I win against the 4-ball ghost, but lose 9-3ish to the 5-ball ghost. As for what type of "play" I am using, I am not sure what you mean?
 
336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
I agree

Colonel said:
You need both as well as a healthy regular dose of match competition against more talented players.
Click to expand...

Since you've just begun to play pool I agree with the above statement.

If you were someone that had been playing awhile I would recommend you take up One Pocket because it allows you to see how better players execute shots and skills enabling you to learn from them because you get plenty of chances to participate.

The most frustrating part of learning to play that game can be conquered and that is the break. Once you get past the break the entire game is cosmos of skills that when learned will shape a player right.
 
K

kiddcutty

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been playing for 3 years. Lots of drills and playing the ghost in that time frame! But in the last two months I've had break through improvements on safety play, ball pocketing, and not breaking under pressure mentally.

I've been gambling cheap against the best players in my town with no spot. Even though it's 10-20 a set, It's helped me realize where my flaws are and how I have to stop my opponent.

Went undefeated Thursday-Saturday $5-$10 tournaments this week. Total of almost $400 in winnings.

A lot of people on here talk about it, I tried it and it worked for me. Good luck!
 
ctyhntr

ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
Sam,
What skill level are you, and listen to the instructors who give you advice. I see drills, ghost, play time, professional instruction, and competition (either through matches, leagues, and tournaments), as ingredients in the diet to feed your pool game.

You need to come up with a healthy mix that will help your game grow. Identify what should be staple ingredients, and what are garnishes and spices to help flavor your game. Also, what you should be concentrating on now may not have the same priority 5 years from now.

Good luck
 
N

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SamLambert said:
Hi Scott!

My fundamentals are something I pay a lot of importance to! I've read and been told countless times that they were super important so I did seek professional instruction regarding that. I'm starting to really like where they are at and I'm glad I didn't wait until after 2-3 years to start noticing I was shooting wrong at first.

But unfortunately, fundamentals only bring you so far, I am really bad a seeing some cut angles and predicting CB path, and I'm not sure what's the quickest way to improve those things.
Click to expand...

Sam, I've told you this all before. Here it is again: You are very mistaken in thinking that fundamentals will only take you so far. Without them, you won't get anywhere.

As far as seeing cut angles and cb path, drills are the ONLY way to go. Let's look at two scenarios- first one is just playing, second is drills-

1. Just play the ghost or an opponent. You have an unfamiliar cut shot or position play. You get one chance to figure it out and shoot it. No do-overs if you miss. Your learning experience now just consisted of one shot. Over and done. How much did you actually learn from it?

2. You do drills by yourself for six months minimum. No playing anyone else. Your drills start out by doing the drill and repeating the shot until you own it. Each time you shoot the shot, you pay close attention to all details. Your fundamentals, and exactly where you hit the cb and at what speed, and exactly where you hit the ob, and the results. Only if you know exactly what you did, can you properly make any adjustments on the next shot. This way, you quickly learn what does what, and how to duplicate it on demand. How much do you think you will learn doing it that way?

You have two ways to learn, you decide which you can get the most out of.

Besides the Billiard University drills, also work on Bert Kinnisters 60 minute workout. (he also has many other drills you can later check out and work on)

For the Billiard University drills, work on the drills. The test is a test and should be taken weekly or so. In between actually doing the test, work on the drills themselves. Work on each aspect until you own it or at least improve on it, then go on to the next one. You will be surprised how much you will learn when you work on one shot for just ten minutes.

Once you have the basics down pretty good, then, and only then, start putting the basics together by playing actual games. Such as playing the ghost. Later on, start playing other players.
 
SamLambert

SamLambert

Daydreaming about pool
Silver Member
Neil said:
Sam, I've told you this all before. Here it is again: You are very mistaken in thinking that fundamentals will only take you so far. Without them, you won't get anywhere.

As far as seeing cut angles and cb path, drills are the ONLY way to go. Let's look at two scenarios- first one is just playing, second is drills-

1. Just play the ghost or an opponent. You have an unfamiliar cut shot or position play. You get one chance to figure it out and shoot it. No do-overs if you miss. Your learning experience now just consisted of one shot. Over and done. How much did you actually learn from it?

2. You do drills by yourself for six months minimum. No playing anyone else. Your drills start out by doing the drill and repeating the shot until you own it. Each time you shoot the shot, you pay close attention to all details. Your fundamentals, and exactly where you hit the cb and at what speed, and exactly where you hit the ob, and the results. Only if you know exactly what you did, can you properly make any adjustments on the next shot. This way, you quickly learn what does what, and how to duplicate it on demand. How much do you think you will learn doing it that way?

You have two ways to learn, you decide which you can get the most out of.

Besides the Billiard University drills, also work on Bert Kinnisters 60 minute workout. (he also has many other drills you can later check out and work on)

For the Billiard University drills, work on the drills. The test is a test and should be taken weekly or so. In between actually doing the test, work on the drills themselves. Work on each aspect until you own it or at least improve on it, then go on to the next one. You will be surprised how much you will learn when you work on one shot for just ten minutes.

Once you have the basics down pretty good, then, and only then, start putting the basics together by playing actual games. Such as playing the ghost. Later on, start playing other players.
Click to expand...

We must not have the same definition of fundamentals then, I am seein fundamentals as being how you approach a shot and execute it with what logic behind the shot. Of course you can't become a pro just from mastering that, you actually have to practice the shots themselves.

As for the rest of your reply, I appreciate the info and I will keep it in mind. I will practice the drills I struggled with during the exam. Hopefully that way I should be able to improve on my weak areas.

Thanks!
 
K

Ky Boy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Play stronger competition for a game of stakes. Work on deficiencies by yourself and find strong competition to test progress and uncover more deficiencies.

Wash rinse repeat...

You can be a world beater at home but learning to play through nerves is a different animal.

I thought myself to be a decent player until I drew Efren in the bank and 9 ball at Derby City last year. I gave him a great match playing banks and fell on my face in 9 ball. The biggest thing that leaves you in that environment is decision making IMO.

Putting your feet to the fire often helps you deal with all that.


Gary
 
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N

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SamLambert said:
We must not have the same definition of fundamentals then, I am seein fundamentals as being how you approach a shot and execute it with what logic behind the shot. Of course you can't become a pro just from mastering that, you actually have to practice the shots themselves.

As for the rest of your reply, I appreciate the info and I will keep it in mind. I will practice the drills I struggled with during the exam. Hopefully that way I should be able to improve on my weak areas.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

That is what fundamentals are. But, there are drills just for fundamentals also. No, you won't become a pro just from mastering that, but you also won't become a pro if you don't master that.
 
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