WHo's your pick? RObles or Hohmann for World Straight Pool Champ

allprobilliards

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
sentimental pick has to be for Robles

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Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hard to pick any other than Best 14.1 player of planet today. Hohmann.
He is totally other level on 14.1 than 9-ball or other games..
 

Positively Ralf

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Robles, mainly because his contribution to the pool world has been amazing and he's the hometown hero. That and I have to cheer the fellow Spanish player.
 

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
It doesn't matter, playing the in the finals of an event with top talent is an honor.

Hohmann competes more internationally than Robles.

Robles making it to the finals is validation of his talent.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hohmann understands the nuances of the game and he can run balls as good as anybody.
 

ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
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sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Thorsten Hohmann is an all-time great at 14.1, perhaps a top ten ever in the discipline.

The last three players I can think of that I feel would have been favored over him at 14.1 were Varner, Sigel and Mizerak, none of whom were probably the equals of Mosconi and Greenleaf.

I think Thorsten is mentionable with 14.1 legends like Jimmy Caras, Ray Martin, Luther Lassiter and Allen Hopkins.
 

Seth C.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thorsten Hohmann is an all-time great at 14.1, perhaps a top ten ever in the discipline.

The last three players I can think of that I feel would have been favored over him at 14.1 were Varner, Sigel and Mizerak, none of whom were probably the equals of Mosconi and Greenleaf.

I think Thorsten is mentionable with 14.1 legends like Jimmy Caras, Ray Martin, Luther Lassiter and Allen Hopkins.

Hi Stu -- I've read your thoughtful and educated posts over the past handful of years, and respect your opinions. I don't consider myself an expert on the resumes and credentials of past HOF'ers, legends, etc., but I have some question about your saying that Hohmann is "mentionable" (arguably faint praise) with 14.1 legends among whom you include Allen Hopkins. Is Hopkins even Hohmann's equal, let alone superior, as a 14.1 competitor, when comparing career accomplishments? Not that Wikipedia is a reliable source when it comes to pool records, but here is the page for Hopkins, and it doesn't list 14.1 accomplishments that compare to what I understand Hohmann's to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Hopkins_(pool_player)

Interestingly, I was recently watching video of the Hohmann/Engert finals of the 2006 World 14.1 championship, for which Tony Robles was one of the commentators. Robles said that he considered Hohmann to be the one of the all-time greats in straight pool at that time, and he added that Hohmann was still quite young and had a lot of his career ahead of him (which, of course, was true, and, of course, Hohmann has won many straight pool events since 2006).

Just wondering if you can elaborate and perhaps educate me about Hopkins . . .

Regards,

Seth
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi Stu -- I've read your thoughtful and educated posts over the past handful of years, and respect your opinions. I don't consider myself an expert on the resumes and credentials of past HOF'ers, legends, etc., but I have some question about your saying that Hohmann is "mentionable" (arguably faint praise) with 14.1 legends among whom you include Allen Hopkins. Is Hopkins even Hohmann's equal, let alone superior, as a 14.1 competitor, when comparing career accomplishments? Not that Wikipedia is a reliable source when it comes to pool records, but here is the page for Hopkins, and it doesn't list 14.1 accomplishments that compare to what I understand Hohmann's to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Hopkins_(pool_player)

Interestingly, I was recently watching video of the Hohmann/Engert finals of the 2006 World 14.1 championship, for which Tony Robles was one of the commentators. Robles said that he considered Hohmann to be the one of the all-time greats in straight pool at that time, and he added that Hohmann was still quite young and had a lot of his career ahead of him (which, of course, was true, and, of course, Hohmann has won many straight pool events since 2006).

Just wondering if you can elaborate and perhaps educate me about Hopkins . . .

Regards,

Seth


IMO, if anyone is going to break Mosconi's records, it'll be Hohmann. He'a a machine.

Lou Figueroa
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Hi Stu -- I've read your thoughtful and educated posts over the past handful of years, and respect your opinions. I don't consider myself an expert on the resumes and credentials of past HOF'ers, legends, etc., but I have some question about your saying that Hohmann is "mentionable" (arguably faint praise) with 14.1 legends among whom you include Allen Hopkins. Is Hopkins even Hohmann's equal, let alone superior, as a 14.1 competitor, when comparing career accomplishments? Not that Wikipedia is a reliable source when it comes to pool records, but here is the page for Hopkins, and it doesn't list 14.1 accomplishments that compare to what I understand Hohmann's to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Hopkins_(pool_player)

Interestingly, I was recently watching video of the Hohmann/Engert finals of the 2006 World 14.1 championship, for which Tony Robles was one of the commentators. Robles said that he considered Hohmann to be the one of the all-time greats in straight pool at that time, and he added that Hohmann was still quite young and had a lot of his career ahead of him (which, of course, was true, and, of course, Hohmann has won many straight pool events since 2006).

Just wondering if you can elaborate and perhaps educate me about Hopkins . . .

Regards,

Seth

Allen was a world beater who got around to beating practically every BCA Hall of Famer you can name. He won the 14.1 World Championship in 1977 and was the runner-up to Ray Martin at the 1978 World Championships. I attended both of those. Allen's personal high run was over 400 and he was a killer for the cash. In addition, other than Irving Crane, Allen was the best defensive 14.1 player of his generation.

Comparisons of those who played primarily straight pool to those of the current generation, who only play it occasionally, are difficult, by I've seen a whole lot of Hopkins and a whole lot of Hohmann up close and I feel they are both legends of straight pool and would have had one hell of a match if their primes had coincided. That said, though, more than a few of the old masters played the patterns better than Hohmann, and Hopkins is one of them. That said, however, few have ever overpowered the table the way Hohmann does, and only Lassiter hit the break shots as hard among the old timers.

Here's a weird thought. Hohmann might be the favorite over Hopkins on Simonis, but Hopkins would have the edge on the old nappy cloths.

Hohmann is worthy of consideration among the all-time greats. So is Allen.
 

Lee Vilenski

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Hi Stu -- I've read your thoughtful and educated posts over the past handful of years, and respect your opinions. I don't consider myself an expert on the resumes and credentials of past HOF'ers, legends, etc., but I have some question about your saying that Hohmann is "mentionable" (arguably faint praise) with 14.1 legends among whom you include Allen Hopkins. Is Hopkins even Hohmann's equal, let alone superior, as a 14.1 competitor, when comparing career accomplishments? Not that Wikipedia is a reliable source when it comes to pool records, but here is the page for Hopkins, and it doesn't list 14.1 accomplishments that compare to what I understand Hohmann's to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Hopkins_(pool_player) - fixed link

Interestingly, I was recently watching video of the Hohmann/Engert finals of the 2006 World 14.1 championship, for which Tony Robles was one of the commentators. Robles said that he considered Hohmann to be the one of the all-time greats in straight pool at that time, and he added that Hohmann was still quite young and had a lot of his career ahead of him (which, of course, was true, and, of course, Hohmann has won many straight pool events since 2006).

Just wondering if you can elaborate and perhaps educate me about Hopkins . . .

Regards,

Seth

Hi Seth,

Just because you brought it up, currently, I'm the only person updating Wikipedia articles for Pool players and events. Sadly, the information isn't even close to correct; as finding sources for claims in pool seems to be really quite difficult. Anything pre-2000 is very difficult to find.

If anyone has any information that does need updating, send me a message.

On that note, does anyone have any sources for this years competition? I see there are brackets for the round-robin and knockout rounds above, anything else? I could create a tournament for this years straight pool championship, but Wikipedia requires an base amount of secondary sources for inclusion in terms of articles. Does anyone know of any media covering the event?
 

Seth C.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi Seth,

Just because you brought it up, currently, I'm the only person updating Wikipedia articles for Pool players and events. Sadly, the information isn't even close to correct; as finding sources for claims in pool seems to be really quite difficult. Anything pre-2000 is very difficult to find.

If anyone has any information that does need updating, send me a message.

On that note, does anyone have any sources for this years competition? I see there are brackets for the round-robin and knockout rounds above, anything else? I could create a tournament for this years straight pool championship, but Wikipedia requires an base amount of secondary sources for inclusion in terms of articles. Does anyone know of any media covering the event?

Lee -- I didn't intend to demean your work, and thanks for all the effort that you put in on behalf of the game and its followers!
 

Seth C.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Allen was a world beater who got around to beating practically every BCA Hall of Famer you can name. He won the 14.1 World Championship in 1977 and was the runner-up to Ray Martin at the 1978 World Championships. I attended both of those. Allen's personal high run was over 400 and he was a killer for the cash. In addition, other than Irving Crane, Allen was the best defensive 14.1 player of his generation.

Comparisons of those who played primarily straight pool to those of the current generation, who only play it occasionally, are difficult, by I've seen a whole lot of Hopkins and a whole lot of Hohmann up close and I feel they are both legends of straight pool and would have had one hell of a match if their primes had coincided. That said, though, more than a few of the old masters played the patterns better than Hohmann, and Hopkins is one of them. That said, however, few have ever overpowered the table the way Hohmann does, and only Lassiter hit the break shots as hard among the old timers.

Here's a weird thought. Hohmann might be the favorite over Hopkins on Simonis, but Hopkins would have the edge on the old nappy cloths.

Hohmann is worthy of consideration among the all-time greats. So is Allen.

Thanks for the reply and info. With this further information, I guess my remaining thought is really my original one -- it doesn't seem that Hopkins' 14.1 body of work is big enough to match up against what Hohmann has built. Hopkins may have been great at it for a limited period of time, but HOF/legend status in sports is generally reserved for those who have reached the top of the hill many times over many years. I know that Hopkins played for many years, but his 14.1 victories (victory?) seem to be limited to the late 70s. Perhaps a little oddly, if you were to tell me that he only competed in major 14.1 events for a few years in the late 70s, I'd be more inclined to see the case for him than if you were to tell me that in the early-to-mid 70s and in the 80s he competed but lost to Miserak, etc.
 

stevekur1

The "COMMISH"
Silver Member
WHO WON ?????? lol

all the lead up for every match on facebook, and after the match was over not one post congratulating Thor on his 5th World 14.1 Championship title from World 14.1 !!!

I dont know if it's for magazine rights for them to do the official story. Still would be nice to see a pic of the champ once again holding the trophy !!!
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Thanks for the reply and info. With this further information, I guess my remaining thought is really my original one -- it doesn't seem that Hopkins' 14.1 body of work is big enough to match up against what Hohmann has built. Hopkins may have been great at it for a limited period of time, but HOF/legend status in sports is generally reserved for those who have reached the top of the hill many times over many years. I know that Hopkins played for many years, but his 14.1 victories (victory?) seem to be limited to the late 70s. Perhaps a little oddly, if you were to tell me that he only competed in major 14.1 events for a few years in the late 70s, I'd be more inclined to see the case for him than if you were to tell me that in the early-to-mid 70s and in the 80s he competed but lost to Miserak, etc.

That's a fair point, Seth. I think at their respective peaks, the two were equal at 14.1, but Thorsten's body of work is, perhaps, wider. Some of that is, of course, due to Allen's gradual move toward entrepreneurship and his expo is close to thirty years old now.

Still, to win a world title back then, you had to beat a field that included Steve Mizerak, Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, Irving Crane, Joe Balsis, Dallas West, Ray Martin and Dan DiLiberto. Along with Hopkins, that makes ten BCA Hall of Famers in the field! Add names like Jim Fusco, Jack Colavita, Larry Lisciotti, and Pete Margo to the mix and you can start to get a sense of just how tough those fields really were and how hard it was to win titles.

So yes, Allen had the misfortune of competing against the toughest fields the 14.1 discipline ever knew, but he more than held his own against them in his prime and is, indeed, an all-time great.

Still, don't forget that the regional tour system played a lot of 14.1 back then. The most prestigious of the regional tours back then was the Eastern States Tour, a forerunner of both the All About Pool Tour and the Joss Tour. Allen would have won some of those events, and many of them had a field as tough as what the Charlie Williams events usually produce.
 
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Seth C.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's a fair point, Seth. I think at their respective peaks, the two were equal at 14.1, but Thorsten's body of work is, perhaps, wider. Some of that is, of course, due to Allen's gradual move toward entrepreneurship and his expo is close to thirty years old now.

Still, to win a world title back then, you had to beat a field that included Steve Mizerak, Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, Irving Crane, Joe Balsis, Dallas West, Ray Martin and Dan DiLiberto. Along with Hopkins, that makes ten BCA Hall of Famers in the field! Add names like Jim Fusco, Jack Colavita, Larry Lisciotti, and Pete Margo to the mix and you can start to get a sense of just how tough those fields really were and how hard it was to win titles.

So yes, Allen had the misfortune of competing against the toughest fields the 14.1 discipline ever knew, but he more than held his own against them in his prime and is, indeed, an all-time great.

Still, don't forget that the regional tour system played a lot of 14.1 back then. The most prestigious of the regional tours back then was the Eastern States Tour, a forerunner of both the All About Pool Tour and the Joss Tour. Allen would have won some of those events, and many of them had a field as tough as what the Charlie Williams events usually produce.

All good points.

Such a shame that the governance of the sport has been so splintered and shaky, and that the meaningful/major 14.1 events have been so inconsistent in occurrence, name, place, strength of field, and recordation. Even today we have a spot-on post by Steve Kurtz rightly bemoaning the failure of the promoter (think about that -- the actual promoter) of the just completed World 14.1 to publicize to a (the?) primary 14.1 audience (this forum, small as it is) -- who won the event.

Sure hope that Peter Burrows made the right call in moving the American 14.1 to NYC from VA. Just seems that with each change in these various events there comes doubt about stability. Witness what happened at the Derby City George Fels Memorial Straight Pool Challenge this year . . . https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=468329
 

Joe_Jaguar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
WHO WON ?????? lol

all the lead up for every match on facebook, and after the match was over not one post congratulating Thor on his 5th World 14.1 Championship title from World 14.1 !!!

I dont know if it's for magazine rights for them to do the official story. Still would be nice to see a pic of the champ once again holding the trophy !!!

They couldn't post on here. There were banned :embarrassed2::rotflmao1::crying:
 
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