Only Way To Play This Shot?

DrCue'sProtege said:

Happy Thanksgiving everybody. And I was trying to use Cropper and SnagIt to put this picture up but my computer just sat there and spun and spun so I said the heck with it.

Anyway, I was breaking some racks earlier today and had this layout. To get from the 2B to the 3B it appears to me that the only way to get there is to use a little bit of outside english. Maybe hit this shot about 130 with a tip of right english to come off the bottom rail to the side rail and in behind the 3B for position in the bottom right corner.

Is there another way to play this? When I used the outside english on this shot I squirted the CB and overcut the 2B and that was that.

r/DCP


https://pad-v1.chalkysticks.com/3bc6a.png

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If I were playing an opponent... 2 ball to hit the short rail 1/2 diamond right of the pocket.
Follow on the CB and slowly rebound off the short rail.. to hide the CB behind the 9 & 7.

If there wasn't so much traffic on the table.. I'd try to run 4 rails with the CB toward the 3.

.

I think around the 3 is the most natural and forgiving route, but it's not the only way. You could also go this way with stun or a little low, maybe even some inside if you like. Takes a little more speed control.

pj
chgo

View attachment 19493

Bob Jewett said:

That's the only reasonable way. If you have the stroke, you could come off the 2 ball to four cushions: right, bottom, top, left, and out to about where the cue ball starts. It's more or less natural but you have to miss the 4 and 8. If you had Virtual Pool, it would show you the spin and hit needed. Here's the pattern:

View attachment 505947

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I agree with this line except that the angle off the last rail looks too risky. I'd put enough running side spin to see a slightly sharper angle off the top rail with the cb traveling one more rail to the side rail and out for position on the 2 (in this diagram) in the bottom corner. You just have to make sure there's enough speed left to make it off that rail past the 5.

Bob Jewett said:

On the tables I play on you avoid playing the three to that side pocket because the pockets are small. With reasonable-sized pockets, that's a good option. With small pockets, it can be hard to get to the 4 ball if you get a little out of line to the side.

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Yeah, it's a more demanding shot in more ways than one. You don't want to have to pound that side pocket shot.

pj
chgo

FranCrimi said:

I agree with this line except that the angle off the last rail looks too risky. I'd put enough running side spin to see a slightly sharper angle off the top rail with the cb traveling one more rail to the side rail and out for position on the 3 in the bottom corner. You just have to make sure there's enough speed left to make it off that rail past the 5.

Click to expand...

4 rails? 5 rails?

You guys are making my arm hurt.

pj
chgo

DrCue'sProtege said:

When I used the outside english on this shot I squirted the CB and overcut the 2B and that was that.

r/DCP


https://pad-v1.chalkysticks.com/3bc6a.png

Click to expand...

Interesting. Outside English would be right, this would squirt the cue ball left and cause you to hit more of the object ball, not less of it. It would result in an under cut not over cut. It sounds like you over compensated.

skipbales said:

Interesting. Outside English would be right, this would squirt the cue ball left and cause you to hit more of the object ball, not less of it. It would result in an under cut not over cut. It sounds like you over compensated.

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Maybe overcompensated because didn't factor in the swerve, especially if the shot was hit with low...

pj
chgo

DrCue'sProtege said:

Happy Thanksgiving everybody. And I was trying to use Cropper and SnagIt to put this picture up but my computer just sat there and spun and spun so I said the heck with it.

Anyway, I was breaking some racks earlier today and had this layout. To get from the 2B to the 3B it appears to me that the only way to get there is to use a little bit of outside english. Maybe hit this shot about 130 with a tip of right english to come off the bottom rail to the side rail and in behind the 3B for position in the bottom right corner.

Is there another way to play this? When I used the outside english on this shot I squirted the CB and overcut the 2B and that was that.

r/DCP


https://pad-v1.chalkysticks.com/3bc6a.png

Click to expand...

Bob makes a great point, get a copy of Virtual Pool.

Patrick Johnson said:

4 rails? 5 rails?

You guys are making my arm hurt.

pj
chgo

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:grin: Just pretend you're playing 3-cushion billiards. Multi-rail position shots are fun and my reason for living.

FranCrimi said:

I agree with this line except that the angle off the last rail looks too risky. I'd put enough running side spin to see a slightly sharper angle off the top rail with the cb traveling one more rail to the side rail and out for position on the 2 (in this diagram) in the bottom corner. You just have to make sure there's enough speed left to make it off that rail past the 5.

Click to expand...

Probably shouldn't jump in on this. I'll probably get killed.

Just for fun:

I think Bob's backup lines are what they should be but not how most public tables play. It's been my experience if you hit the 3rd rail where Bob has it, the 4th will be closer to the corner and the final backup will be close to the position you're talking about. You may hit a 5th then come back in line.

Bob Jewett said:

... you could come off the 2 ball to four cushions: right, bottom, top, left, and out to about where the cue ball starts.

Click to expand...

FranCrimi said:

I'd put enough running side spin to see a slightly sharper angle off the top rail with the cb traveling one more rail to the side rail and out for position on the 2 (in this diagram) in the bottom corner. You just have to make sure there's enough speed left to make it off that rail past the 5.

Click to expand...

3kushn said:

...if you hit the 3rd rail where Bob has it, the 4th will be closer to the corner and the final backup will be close to the position you're talking about. You may hit a 5th then come back in line.

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I enjoyed this exchange between Bob, Fran and 3k, so I took their suggestions to VP4 to see what kinds of hits would be necessary to produce the results they each described.

The top row of pics shows the shot hit with no side spin (left pic) and a tiny touch of right (right pic).

The bottom row of pics shows the same hit (high right) used for both, once with less force (left pic) and once with more force (right pic).

I believe this is how the shots work on new (fast, slippery) cloth - VP4 was set for "tournament" table condition.

pj
chgo

Patrick Johnson said:

I enjoyed this exchange between Bob, Fran and 3k, so I took their suggestions to VP4 to see what kinds of hits would be necessary to produce the results they each described.

The top row of pics shows the shot hit with no side spin (left pic) and a tiny touch of right (right pic).

The bottom row of pics shows the same hit (high right) used for both, once with less force (left pic) and once with more force (right pic).

I believe this is how the shots work on new (fast, slippery) cloth - VP4 was set for "tournament" table condition.

pj
chgo

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Hmmm
The center ball sliding cue ball at top shows forward curve while the bottom pics which have high show closer to a 90 degree deflection with no forward bend which would be more like a sliding cue ball. Based only on the first angle, it seems like the top pics are the High and bottom center ball instead of the other way around.

Are you sure you don't have them labeled backwards?

DrCue'sProtege said:

Happy Thanksgiving everybody. And I was trying to use Cropper and SnagIt to put this picture up but my computer just sat there and spun and spun so I said the heck with it.

Anyway, I was breaking some racks earlier today and had this layout. To get from the 2B to the 3B it appears to me that the only way to get there is to use a little bit of outside english. Maybe hit this shot about 130 with a tip of right english to come off the bottom rail to the side rail and in behind the 3B for position in the bottom right corner.

Is there another way to play this? When I used the outside english on this shot I squirted the CB and overcut the 2B and that was that.

r/DCP


https://pad-v1.chalkysticks.com/3bc6a.png

Click to expand...

It helps to know first, which cueball is in play, is the table dirty, the cushions how lively are they?

There are more factors but those are Important!

I know when I cut the 2 ball, whitey is moving 2 rails into the area of shape, that is good for the shooter, simple muscle memory shot. I would probably go into the back side of the 3 trying to JUST miss it with PROPER SPEED, if I miss it, I'm straight in to the corner pocket. If I clip it, there a good chance I'll have shape for the other side pocket, if the clip is fatter there's a good chance I may have shape in the same pocket as the where I made the 2.

MY MOST IMPORTANT CONCERN....''I want to be close to the 3 ""close to my work""


....Why? because if I'm close w/o a good shot then.................I'm able to play a GOOD safety. Playing shape for a ball, one MUST also consider this. A good safety win games, more often than a great shot.

Bob Jewett said:

The center ball shots are played softly enough that the ball is probably rolling smoothly on the cloth when it gets to the OB. The follow shots show curve after contact but are played at high speed on slippery cloth. The diagrams seem correct to me.

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The center ball (top set of images) hits show obvious forward curve. "The follow shots show curve after contact" The follow shots (bottom set of images) do NOT show curve after contact. That is my point. They don't show curve until after the 3rd rail.

I get that a center hit ball develops forward roll if it rolls far enough. But there is no case that I can picture where it has MORE forward roll over a ball hit the same distance with top to begin with. If they roll far enough they would be equal but the center hit would not have MORE forward roll than the high hit ball at any distance.

The top images show MORE follow, not less. There is a distinct bend after impact, the ones at the bottom show no bend and yet they are the ones labeled with high.


Are you saying a center ball hit develops so much forward roll it curves forward after contact but a top hit ball does not curve forward until 3 rails later because the cloth is smooth?

The BOTTOM images are labeled as the High Right hit but the cue ball comes off at almost a true 90 degree angle (slightly less than stun which is normal for partial roll from a center ball hit). Look where it hits the rail. Are you saying because it is slippery cloth the high English has no effect? The Center ball hit (top images) curves forward and hits way less than the 90 degrees. So Center ball curves forward and high doesn't because it is slippery cloth?