This transgender buisness has got me thinking

couldnthinkof01

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is having separate divisions holding back
womens progress in professional pool?

We all know iron sharpens iron.

Should pool just be genderless?

Do we really need the WPBA?

Fargo essentially has proven a womans
700=a mens 700

Or does this just lower the amount
of revenue overall for pro pool players
in a sport/ game that already
has very low payouts?

Or is it unfair that players around
770 have to play Wu, Shane, Dennis,
without a spot?
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is having separate divisions holding back
womens progress in professional pool?

We all know iron sharpens iron.

Should pool just be genderless?

Do we really need the WPBA?

Fargo essentially has proven a womans
700=a mens 700

Or does this just lower the amount
of revenue overall for pro pool players
in a sport/ game that already
has very low payouts?

Or is it unfair that players around
770 have to play Wu, Shane, Dennis,
without a spot?

You used the phrase "professional pool".

If you are a "pro", you should play other "pros" and it should be gender-neutral.

Either, you are a "pro" or you are "not a pro".

Pros don't spot other pros.

Pros play even.

Nothing is "fair" in pool if you are the "loser".

Grab yourself by the balls and grab some balls and go practice if you get tired of losing.

If you can't hang with the Big Dogs, stay home.

People b1tch that they can't win because SVB breaks so well. Maybe if they gave up the "amount of time" that he does in practicing they would break as well as him.

But, NO, they want a "life" outside of pool. They don't want to put in the time.

SVB's life "is pool"...that is the difference.
 

Z-Nole

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You used the phrase "professional pool".

If you are a "pro", you should play other "pros" and it should be gender-neutral.

Either, you are a "pro" or you are "not a pro".

Pros don't spot other pros.

Pros play even.

Nothing is "fair" in pool if you are the "loser".

Grab yourself by the balls and grab some balls and go practice if you get tired of losing.

If you can't hang with the Big Dogs, stay home.

People b1tch that they can't win because SVB breaks so well. Maybe if they gave up the "amount of time" that he does in practicing they would break as well as him.

But, NO, they want a "life" outside of pool. They don't want to put in the time.

SVB's life "is pool"...that is the difference.

What you are talking about is the “Open” division. Anyone is invited...man, women or child and what you’re saying is that men are better than women so screw the women and their tour. I agree there’s only a handful of women who can compete in an open division but I don’t see why we have to discard the entire women’s tour just to prove that point.
 

couldnthinkof01

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is it possible they are just held back?
If they were forced to play against
Shane, Shaw, Dennis, etc. every single
tournament they played in could they
not improve as a group?

When the majority of players in
womans only tournaments are
in the 600's they don't have to work
that hard.

Shane didn't show up to his first pro
tournaments and crush the fields. Nor
Shaw or Darren. Top snooker players
who have played a little 9 ball don't
come here and destroy fields.

If they were forced to raise their level
of play could they do it?

Their are a couple women players who
are rated higher than players on this
years mosconi cup team. Are they
just outliers?
 

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
Is it possible they are just held back?
If they were forced to play against
Shane, Shaw, Dennis, etc. every single
tournament they played in could they
not improve as a group?

When the majority of players in
womans only tournaments are
in the 600's they don't have to work
that hard.

Shane didn't show up to his first pro
tournaments and crush the fields. Nor
Shaw or Darren. Top snooker players
who have played a little 9 ball don't
come here and destroy fields.

If they were forced to raise their level
of play could they do it?

Their are a couple women players who
are rated higher than players on this
years mosconi cup team. Are they
just outliers?

I think there is a bit more to it. Are there any women who exclusively play other women? My understanding is that most play in leagues and regional events in between women’s tournaments. So removing those women’s tournaments wouldn’t make a huge difference I don’t think.

I think we have seen a gradual increase in the standard of women’s competition and now in Asia there are quite a few women who play at solid pro standard according to Fargo.

I’m not sure that removing women’s competition would have necessarily made it go quicker since, there have always been fewer women playing pool and without the leagues and tournaments, there would likely be even fewer. And irrespective of whether they are playing in womens competition or open, new female players will still likely aspire to the standard of those that came before them. Those would be the benchmarks that they aspire to which would gradually increase. But due to a lower participation across the board it would be a slower increase in my opinion.

I think the other issue is, and I’m guessing here, it seems like women on average come to the game relatively late. Most of the male pros seem to be starting around 10-12 and I realize that many female pros start early too, it seems like there are more players that start at 18-19 or older.

So my belief is that progress would have been slower if womens leagues and tournaments never existed or were removed. Fewer players means less progress.

Finally, I also believe that Siming Chen and Reanne Evans are playing with way more pressure on them in open events than male players of the same skill level.

If Chen made the Semi-Final of the US Open it would be a momentous, historical feat. But for a male player, it would be a nice personal accomplishment. Same with Evans, when she plays in Qschool she is playing to make history. Far worse players than her have qualified for the main tour. There have been guys on the main tour who didn’t win a frame all season and meanwhile Evans lost on the hill to a former world champion earlier this month.
 

PoolBoy1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't believe in the spot bs. Women should be allowed to play against men. It's not like golf. Like it or not the presence of women is a driving force.
 

jeephawk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not sure yet another thread about this is needed, certainly nothing new revealed.
 

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you are a "pro", you should play other "pros" and it should be gender-neutral.

Either, you are a "pro" or you are "not a pro".

Pros don't spot other pros.

Pros play even.

Nothing is "fair" in pool if you are the "loser".

Grab yourself by the balls and grab some balls and go practice if you get tired of losing.

If you can't hang with the Big Dogs, stay home.

People b1tch that they can't win because SVB breaks so well. Maybe if they gave up the "amount of time" that he does in practicing they would break as well as him.

But, NO, they want a "life" outside of pool. They don't want to put in the time.

SVB's life "is pool"...that is the difference.

Off topic, but what's the point of the quotation marks if you're not quoting anyone and it's not used to mark irony?
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
never understood why ...

Some people paid attention in "english class", some folks "did not pay attention in english class". :thumbup:


I never understood why we should learn english when we speak American here. We won the war, shouldn't they learn American?

Hu
 

mchnhed

I Came, I Shot, I Choked
Silver Member
I never understood why we should learn english when we speak American here. We won the war, shouldn't they learn American?

Hu

I wouldnt worry about learning any of it. Soon the main form of communication taught in our schools will be 'Hooked on Emojis'.

LMAO 😆 LOL 😂 IMHO u r so rite about that to. i proude of the way i can talk at peps with my cel phone.
 

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is no advantage between men and women except for perhaps the opening break shot
on a rack which is a mere reflection of the differences in strength between most men & women.

Anyone hear or recall the name of Jean Balukas? That woman would cause even the very best
men competitors to marvel & wonder just how great a player she truly was after she just beat ‘em.

There is an ole expression.....”Let ‘em play it out.” Well, women players are every bit as capable
as any male competitor. The issue is there’s just not as many great players %wise as with the men.
I attribute that to just the everyday distractions & challenges of life confronting most women players.



Matt B.
 

AkGuy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ya got me...

This Women Only and Open stuff is a can of worms in todays progressive and enlightened world. I personally don't mind being old as I will not be here to experience how bad it will become in the future with the crazy world we live in.

An Open is an Open, it does not say Men Only. Saying Men Only is not very popular in todays liberal touchy feel good society. The ACLU and some women's advocacy groups have taken the Men Only thing to court and won. Is the Boy Scouts even the Boy Scouts any more?

Physically I see no reason why a female cannot be just as good at pool as a male in pool. Maybe if more women started early with good coaching, like the Chinese do, we would see better women players.

I am a bit surprised some one has not asked the ACLU to bust some barriers in the Women Only places around the country. If our courts allow some one to switch genders because they don't "feel" like being male or female on a given day, where does it all end?

I know I would probably get in trouble if my wife or daughter told me some guy followed them into a rest room, etc.

I wouldn't make it past the first round in any Women Only professional pool tournaments. Neither would lots of other players.
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
There is no advantage between men and women except for perhaps the opening break shot
on a rack which is a mere reflection of the differences in strength between most men & women.

Anyone hear or recall the name of Jean Balukas? That woman would cause even the very best
men competitors to marvel & wonder just how great a player she truly was after she just beat ‘em.

There is an ole expression.....”Let ‘em play it out.” Well, women players are every bit as capable
as any male competitor. The issue is there’s just not as many great players %wise as with the men.
I attribute that to just the everyday distractions & challenges of life confronting most women players.

Matt B.

Alison Fisher disagree's with you. She fully admitted she would not finish highly on the men's tour, verses being the number one woman for over a decade. It's not the shooting but the "thinking" part. Earl doesn't duck, he brings fire power and thinks he can make any shot he's given... and back in the day he could do just that. Alison, during an interview on the subject, said that. She just doesn't think that "way" of being super aggressive and believing you can make any shot the table presents.

I still love Alison's game, but she doesn't have to be as good as the top men, she just needs to be the top woman. and she made nice career of it.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
In the 80s a bunch of us started watching ladies tennis at the pool hall.
...they didn’t have that killer serve...so you saw more volleying...
..the more interesting part of the game...IMO
...’course, it was even more interesting when I fell in love with Gabriella Sabatini..:lovies:

Vive le difference
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
ladies in evening gowns

In the 80s a bunch of us started watching ladies tennis at the pool hall.
...they didn’t have that killer serve...so you saw more volleying...
..the more interesting part of the game...IMO
...’course, it was even more interesting when I fell in love with Gabriella Sabatini..:lovies:

Vive le difference


The eighties, wasn't that when tennis attire got a bit out of hand for awhile? Some of the young ladies were more out of their clothes than in. I was offended, deeply offended. I wouldn't have watched so much ladies tennis but it wouldn't have been fair to be so offended without being informed!:wink:

This was about the timeframe of ladies playing pool in evening gowns too. Pretty ridiculous from a playing standpoint but I'm sure it was a big boost to viewership.

vive la difference indeed!

Hu
 

Nick B

This is gonna hurt
Silver Member
Alison Fisher disagree's with you. She fully admitted she would not finish highly on the men's tour, verses being the number one woman for over a decade. It's not the shooting but the "thinking" part. Earl doesn't duck, he brings fire power and thinks he can make any shot he's given... and back in the day he could do just that. Alison, during an interview on the subject, said that. She just doesn't think that "way" of being super aggressive and believing you can make any shot the table presents.

I still love Alison's game, but she doesn't have to be as good as the top men, she just needs to be the top woman. and she made nice career of it.
I think we have gotten a little off the core topic and have turned this into should Women or Trans players be allowed to play in Open events. The issue is should "Male-Based-Trans" (I'm being careful and respectful here)-Originally Birth Males in Transition or Converted be allowed to play in Women's Events. I think the survey said it best that most people recognize their is a difference/advantage and they should not be allowed to play in those events.

Even the big kids at the IOC is struggling with it. You got two sides pulling at each other. Science says it's actually quite clear and Society wants to "bend" the facts (for good reasons at the core...at least they are coming from a good place) trying to be more inclusive. It's a tough balancing act.
This is good reading: https://runningmagazine.ca/the-scene/ioc-transgender-policy-stalled-in-advance-of-tokyo-2020/

Sooner or later some 200 (in the world) level not quite ready for prime time male will run to the cash in a Marathon or say a well paying female sport like Tennis and we will have to take a serious look at this.

Remember all the controversy around this guy?
 

Attachments

  • 250px-Oscar_Pistorius_2_Daegu_2011.jpg
    250px-Oscar_Pistorius_2_Daegu_2011.jpg
    23.3 KB · Views: 138
Top