Bad Problem with John Showman, (Cue Stolen)

lenoxmjs said:

At one time I would have agreed with you. At one time a Showman was high on my list of must acquires, now do to multiple reasons I just don't see it that way. Every bad story, post, and transaction, hurts not only the cue maker but also his resale and reputation.

I for one have removed Showman from my list of must acquires and feel that many people who once would have given a deposit and waited years to get a cue now would never do so. Mr Showman is imploding.


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Runner said:

My two cents, FWIW....

Once the problems started, enough with the emails and phone calls... a $7K cue
is worth a plane trip and hotel to get it back. Just sayin'....

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RBC said:

I think there's a trap that high end custom cue makers can and often do fall into.

Let's say the CM makes 4 cues per month, and his wait list is about 6 months. Each month he takes 4 new orders, and takes a 50% deposit. Also, each month he delivers 4 cues, so basically, he gets paid for 4 cues each month. As long as he builds 4 cues every month, and gets 4 new orders, his monthly income is based on 4 cues per month, and he owes roughly 24 cues to be debt free.

Now, let's say his demand increases, and he's taking 8 orders per month. Now, he's getting extra money. If he doesn't put it in the bank, and most of them don't, then he's falling into the trap. It's not long and the wait time to get one of his cues is several years, which means that the new orders stop coming in. Now, all of a sudden, he owes cues for years, and only has half his normal income to look forward to until those orders are filled or the new orders start coming back in.

I don't know if this is what happened to John, but it certainly could have.

It's a bad situation, any way you look at it. It's just another reason that, especially to those without the right experience, running a business can be very tough at times.


Royce

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Ken_4fun said:

I hear what you are saying, and it is easy for anyone to say what someone else should have done AFTERWARDS.

We all have busy lives and we tend to give folks the benefit of the doubt, I know I do.

So IMO, "just sayin' " I can see the trap the OP had, and I was in the same boat.

Ken

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Drop The Rock said:

Are you implying that someone involved in the pool and billiards industry is fiscally irresponsible!?

Lol. It really is kind of amazing how few people lack even a minute amount of common sense when it comes to business. There is a reason guys like Durbin and others are successful. They don't take more than x# of orders a year and are honest about how much time it takes to build. A lot of mid level/smaller cue builders make their money on repairs and tips if they have enough customers which in the scheme of things takes away from the cue making side.

I would much rather have a cuemaker overestimate the time it would take to finish a cue than underestimate and if he finishes early then great.

Inventory management, understanding true net income based on time and basic ROI would be great things for these guys to learn.

To the OP. You are COMPLETELY within your rights to post what you have. I would personally take legal action. This case isn't like what I described above because we have passed the point of flakey. I hope it all works out for you.

To the clowns that disapprove of posts like this, have you ever skipped over a restaurant or any product because of a review? If so then you are a hypocrite. Even worse if you have a business that is reviewed and don't understand this.

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Quality Cues said:

I'm willing to bet a large sum of money that Showman will never post to this thread. There is no valid excuse for his failure to finish the project or return my cue after I demanded that he do so by my certified letter of 4/7/15. Let's not forget, I own the cue and have the right to have any other cue maker on the planet work on it if I see fit. I wanted my friend Eric Crisp to complete the project when Showman failed to do it, but Showman had the audicity to tell me that he could not let that happen. Who does this contract breacher and liar think he is telling me that he cannot let Eric work on my cue? Nobody should ever trust Showman again or put a penny in his pocket. He is taking a serious beat down in this thread and deserves all of it and more, so please pile on.

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RBC said:

I think there's a trap that high end custom cue makers can and often do fall into.

Let's say the CM makes 4 cues per month, and his wait list is about 6 months. Each month he takes 4 new orders, and takes a 50% deposit. Also, each month he delivers 4 cues, so basically, he gets paid for 4 cues each month. As long as he builds 4 cues every month, and gets 4 new orders, his monthly income is based on 4 cues per month, and he owes roughly 24 cues to be debt free.

Now, let's say his demand increases, and he's taking 8 orders per month. Now, he's getting extra money. If he doesn't put it in the bank, and most of them don't, then he's falling into the trap. It's not long and the wait time to get one of his cues is several years, which means that the new orders stop coming in. Now, all of a sudden, he owes cues for years, and only has half his normal income to look forward to until those orders are filled or the new orders start coming back in.

I don't know if this is what happened to John, but it certainly could have.

It's a bad situation, any way you look at it. It's just another reason that, especially to those without the right experience, running a business can be very tough at times.


Royce

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skins said:

I never said anyone should send him money or order a cue. I said his workmanship is among the best there is and that he is one of only a few that could control his future.. If he wanted to. Sadly it looks as though he's not taking advantage of THAT. As for you thinking his indiscretions will affect the market for his cues I think your sadly mistaken... His work will ALWAYS be top tier regardless and with not many examples leaving the shop the value will only increase. It may be unfortunate for some to accept into their own morality but quality is quality is quality.... Don't matter what the media or product. And as such will always be desirable. In fact if Mike can get this cue back with the work completed as asked it'd be worth MORE than 7k regardless of the story(s) attached...

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Ken_4fun said:

I hear what you are saying, and it is easy for anyone to say what someone else should have done AFTERWARDS.

We all have busy lives and we tend to give folks the benefit of the doubt, I know I do.

So IMO, "just sayin' " I can see the trap the OP had, and I was in the same boat.

Ken

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NYC cue dude said:

That's not necessarily true. How many guys out there can afford a $7000 cue. Hundreds? Anyone who thinks (not saying YOU do) that this doesn't have a direct effect on Showman's potential customers is completely mistaken. I could afford his cues. All of them in fact, lol. But I wouldn't ever own one of his cues, even for free. To take that a step further, I'd encourage every buyer/collector I know to NEVER touch anything of his. And with guys out there like Ernie, Tony and Barry (amongst many more), why would you? Even buying his already produced cues on the secondary market helps him (by staying relevant and in demand). JUST DONT HELP HIM. HE DOESNT DESERVE IT!!

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mia said:

You don't really believe that, do you?

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classiccues said:

Which reflects more to the characters of the buyers, than the cuemaker, IMHO.

JV

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mia said:

Completely. And I'm not saying any different. While Showman has proven himself to be untrustworthy and perhaps a criminal, I think we all know that there are PLENTY of people, both on AZ and outside of AZ, who will roll the dice and hope they don't get screwed over because they see a chance to make a quick, easy flip/profit.

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mia said:

Completely. And I'm not saying any different. While Showman has proven himself to be untrustworthy and perhaps a criminal, I think we all know that there are PLENTY of people, both on AZ and outside of AZ, who will roll the dice and hope they don't get screwed over because they see a chance to make a quick, easy flip/profit.

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Quality Cues said:

One of the mods sent me a PM and explained why AZ changed the title of this thread. I liked the original title better, but am fine with the change and happy that AZ is keeping the thread up and running. Thanks AZ!

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