Staying away from the side Pockets - what does Buddy mean

PoolFan101 said:

In this Great Match between Buddy Hall and Grady Matthews , they are also commentating what they were doing . In it Buddy talks about staying away from the side pockets and said when playing 9 ball you should work the corners and stay away from the side pockets to ensure a better shot chance. Does that make a difference. Do you guys stay away and just shoot the corner pockets . Does this help giving you a better shot in the end result. Here is the match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_29seYTp-0Q

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Always try to shoot at corners as much as possible. Use the sides when really needed, kinda like an escape valve. Easier to stay in the center if you use the corners more.

In my experience you have to take what the tables gives you. That includes side pocket shots. I also find side pocket position requires me to more often cross the line of the shot rather than come into it. I find I can get out of shape real fast with side pocket shots. So while they can be tempting with the object ball close to them, I find the table naturally presents corner pocket shots more naturally (coming into the line). I find this true for not just being able to make the shot, but in terms of where I need to be for the next 3 shots.


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Side pockets can be overused by many players because most people see the ball is easier to pocket but don't realize the restrictions on position these balls carry.

If you're shooting a ball in the side from any angle other than straight in you are very limited. You are either going up table or down table. Beyond that, the cue ball is a long way from hitting a rail which means side spin won't do much to change that movement from the cue ball. In other words, you'd better get the angle you want. Draw and follow can help with your direction a little bit, more so as you are more full on the object ball, less on thin cuts. But they can't change which end of the table you are travelling to very easily.

Contrast that to a corner pocket. Now top spin lets you move to one end of the table, draw to the other. If the ball is near the side rail you have a huge margin of error to get on that ball (you can get on it going into the side rail or bouncing back out, with brakes off the second rail). You can also send the cue ball into the side rail to unlock side spin very quickly to further change the direction of the cue ball.

It's hard to discuss without diagrams and examples. Look, the nice part about side pockets is they are easy to make. If you know you're going to get a good angle on them, or they are really close to the side to allow tons of cheating the pocket and flexibility, they are often best. But as that ball starts getting further from the side or thinner into the side your angle becomes more and more important and your flexibility becomes lower and lower. They can be right, but corners tend to be more flexible.

Buddy grew up on 7' tables and stated that the biggest mistake big table players make when going to a bar table is playing the sides too much. On a 7' pocketing gets easier where angles become more important, so it favors sides more and more. For straight shooters on generous pockets corners are king. Tough equipment with a good lead ball or easy next ball and the sides are quite all right.

I don't follow Buddy's advice to stay away from side pocket shots, but I'm a little more careful with them.

In addition to what others have said, side pocket shots demand that you land on the correct side of them, otherwise you're headed to the wrong end of the table for the next ball - they're the Continental Divide of pool.

pj
chgo

I'm a mid level player and just really started paying attention to this. I feel my run out percentage has increased by looking to corner pockets first. This is especially true with the object ball is near the middle of the table (as opposed to 3 or 4 inches from the side). Definitely look first for a corner pocket for that mid-table ball. IMO

I seem to remember reading this approach in Buddy's Rags to Rifleman book if I recall correctly. In particular I thought it related to bar table play.

If you want to improve, listen to Buddy.

IMO, he controls the cueball better than almost any player, and is a big fan of not moving it more than necessary.

Ken

Thanks for posting the link, the commentary from these guys is absolute gold.

Ken_4fun said:

If you want to improve, listen to Buddy.

IMO, he controls the cueball better than almost any player, and is a big fan of not moving it more than necessary.

Ken

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He said, "Don't ask too much out of the cue ball."

I am just waiting for some people to come in here on this thread and say that Buddy Hall is a player and not an instructor so therefore he doesn't know what he is talking about.

When Buddy Hall speaks you better listen.

r/DCP

PoolFan101 said:

In this Great Match between Buddy Hall and Grady Matthews , they are also commentating what they were doing . In it Buddy talks about staying away from the side pockets and said when playing 9 ball you should work the corners and stay away from the side pockets to ensure a better shot chance. Does that make a difference. Do you guys stay away and just shoot the corner pockets . Does this help giving you a better shot in the end result. Here is the match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_29seYTp-0Q

Click to expand...

We all love the side pockets, particularly if a ball is close to a side pocket and not too sharp of an angle. I think what Buddy means in terms of positioning is that if you happen to fall just on the wrong side of the ball/pocket angle, the cue ball can only head towards one end of the table. If the next ball happens to be at the other end of the table, it often requires bringing the cue ball 2 or 3 cushions off the opposite end cushion and back up table for the next ball. Pro players like to minimize the distance the cue ball travels when positioning from one ball to the next in their run out patterns, which obviously decreases the chances of the cue ball accidentally running in to another object ball or in to a pocket.

DrCue'sProtege said:

I am just waiting for some people to come in here on this thread and say that Buddy Hall is a player and not an instructor so therefore he doesn't know what he is talking about.

When Buddy Hall speaks you better listen.

r/DCP

Click to expand...

We are in the main forum so anything goes here

I agree, with what has already been said. Buddy means playing shape, for the sides can get you in trouble. So play shape for the corners, when possible, to keep it simple. Use the sides when appropriate. It’s not about difficulty pocketing balls, it’s about ease of position play.


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Anyone have a link to a video of Buddy either playing to his best ability (in his prime or post-prime showing a glimmer of his former ability?)


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This is really "old school" thinking.

I believe Bert Kinister, in one of his videos, says something like: side pockets are for suckers.

But, as any 14.1 player knows, that is not even close to being so. You just need to know how to exploit them, often to huge advantage.

Lou Figueroa

Also, that's based on 50 states of old cloth, indeterminate ball action, Golden Era stuff.

I watched Buddy Hall play in the early 70's. It looked to me that on a 9 ft table, he played to whatever pocket gave the best angle to get on the next ball with a good angle. Someone said he thought Buddy was talking about valley bar tables where the side pockets were much smaller than the large corner pkts. On most 9 foot tables in the 70's,
the corners were 4 5/8 to 4 3/4 . The side pkts were the larger at around 5 in. I loved
the sides and used them a lot. I have a GC III with extended rails at 4 1/4 with 4 1/2
sides. When the cloth wears in, the corners tighten up while the sides stay the same.
Good luck all

Scratch85 said:

I agree, with what has already been said. Buddy means playing shape, for the sides can get you in trouble. So play shape for the corners, when possible, to keep it simple. Use the sides when appropriate. It’s not about difficulty pocketing balls, it’s about ease of position play.


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Click to expand...

That's my interpretation, too. Buddy has been professing this since the 1970s!

Buddy is referring to how he "thinks" prior to execution. So he relating to us how to properly "plan", in his opinion, to maximize run out potential. When thinking 3 balls ahead in 9 ball, he is encouraging us to look at corner pocket options for each ball "where possible" ahead of using the side pockets.

The "why" for his suggestion, I think, has more to do with percentages of successful execution, than anything else. Everything Buddy suggests regarding pool execution, seems to always refer back to playing the highest percentage of success. He likes simplicity with perfection of execution - I would find it difficult to argue with his assessment of this game.