That's what I was thinking
Rodney Morris Challenges the Top 25 European Players
- Thread starter CJ Wiley
- Start date
That's what I was thinking
The rules we played in the PCA were better than today's rules and this is why:
Playing "2 Shot Shoot Out' the best player would win virtually every time. ALSO:
The rules we played in the PCA were better than today's rules and this is why:
1) Races to 15
2) Call all shots (unless obvious, players know the difference)
3) Incoming player had the option to make their opponent shoot again (so if your opponent shot at a pocket and missed they couldn't get away with a "hook" and win the game)
4) Once a game there was allowed a "Two Way Shot" where you could call a pocket AND a safe at the same time.....if the shot didn't go in there was no "option" for incoming player.
5) Once a game there was a "Two Way Offensive Shot" - this means you could call TWO balls at the same time - example: cut the one ball in the corner and carom the 8 in the side...each ball and pocket must be designated before shot was attempted.
6) Referees racked all TV matches (or semi final and final matches if no TV)
7) We also were experimenting with moving the spots up an inch or two to prevent the corner balls being wired in the corner..... "soft breaks" or "cut breaks" would not be allowed. Breaker must get 3 balls back behind side pockets for legal break from the "Break Box"
These rules are still not as good as 'Two Shot Shoot Out', however, they would still be a giant improvement to what's being played these days in 9 Ball and 10 Ball.
.
I agree, longer races are better, and while you're at it throw in two-foul rollout.
Playing "2 Shot Shoot Out' the best player would win virtually every time. ALSO:
The rules we played in the PCA were better than today's rules and this is why:
1) Races to 15
2) Call all shots (unless obvious, players know the difference)
3) Incoming player had the option to make their opponent shoot again (so if your opponent shot at a pocket and missed they couldn't get away with a "hook" and win the game)
4) Once a game there was allowed a "Two Way Shot" where you could call a pocket AND a safe at the same time.....if the shot didn't go in there was no "option" for incoming player.
5) Once a game there was a "Two Way Offensive Shot" - this means you could call TWO balls at the same time - example: cut the one ball in the corner and carom the 8 in the side...each ball and pocket must be designated before shot was attempted.
6) Referees racked all TV matches (or semi final and final matches if no TV)
7) We also were experimenting with moving the spots up an inch or two to prevent the corner balls being wired in the corner..... "soft breaks" or "cut breaks" would not be allowed. Breaker must get 3 balls back behind side pockets for legal break from the "Break Box"
These rules are still not as good as 'Two Shot Shoot Out', however, they would still be a giant improvement to what's being played these days in 9 Ball and 10 Ball.
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I'm 56, and coming up, we all played two foul, I'm in your camp on that one, CJ.
CJ, here's a dose of reality for you. Pool hustlers/gamblers do not get in the Hall of Fame! They also seem to have a hard time raising a family and leading a normal life. The eternal quest for the next game takes it toll on everyone who tries it! It's a nearly insane lifestyle and it's a rare woman who will put up with it. Of course you know all that as well, since you've been there.
On the other hand a great tournament player can make a decent living at pool, combining prize money, sponsorship, exhibition money, lessons etc. Several of them earn over 100K a year. Not golf money, but a living nonetheless. Many have homes and families as well and are able to live a comfortable lifestyle. It's pretty obvious to me which is the better choice if you're a great pool player.
I love gambling matches as much as anyone but I will never fault a guy who's a champion player and who chooses not to gamble. Ralf Souquet is the first guy who comes to mind. What a class act and what a great player! And he's managed to do all right for himself being strictly a tournament player.
And that's my point sir! LIFE is the real teacher, not pool.
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You know what. I think simply adding # 3 and 4 to the rules of today's tournaments would make things much better.
Call shot at the pro level is completely unnecessary, because let's face it, the top pros very rarely slop balls in. However, it is quite common to see someone miss a shot and then leave their opponent hooked or without a shot. That alone is what makes up the majority of rolls.
This is not "your reality," however it is THE REALITY.
I really enjoy your "doses of reality" because many people, Jay, don't understand what truly makes up "reality".
You have every right to your own opinions, concepts and realities, but you can't have your own facts.....facts are not someone's "reality,' facts are Truth, and you know what they say "The Truth will set us free".
This is not "your reality," however it is THE REALITY.
***
Rudolf Wanderone - CLICK THIS LINK FOR MORE FACTS ABOUT RUDOLF
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For the fictional character after whom Wanderone nicknamed himself, see Minnesota Fats.
Rudolf "Minnesota Fats" Wanderone, Jr.
Double-Smart
Triple-Smart Fats
Occupation Pool hustler
Rudolf Walter Wanderone, Jr. (January 19, 1913 – January 15, 1996; originally spelled Wanderon)[1][2] was an American professional pocket billiards player, also known as "Minnesota Fats". Though he never won a major pool tournament as "Fats", he was perhaps the most publicly recognized pool player in the United States – not only as a player, but also as an entertainer.[3] Wanderone was inducted in 1984 into the Billiard Congress of America Hall of Fame for his decades-long public promotion of pool.
Wanderone began playing at a young age in New York City. As a teenager, he became a traveling pool hustler. Later in his 30s, he moved to southern Illinois where he met and married his first wife, Evelyn. During World War II, he hustled servicemen in Norfolk, Virginia. With the end of the war, Wanderone returned to Illinois and entered semi-retirement.
Wanderone adopted the nickname "Minnesota Fats" from a character in the 1961 film The Hustler, claiming that the character was based upon him.
I really enjoy your "doses of reality" because many people, Jay, don't understand what truly makes up "reality".
You have every right to your own opinions, concepts and realities, but you can't have your own facts.....facts are not someone's "reality,' facts are Truth, and you know what they say "The Truth will set us free".
This is not "your reality," however it is THE REALITY.
***
Rudolf Wanderone - CLICK THIS LINK FOR MORE FACTS ABOUT RUDOLF
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For the fictional character after whom Wanderone nicknamed himself, see Minnesota Fats.
Rudolf "Minnesota Fats" Wanderone, Jr.
Double-Smart
Triple-Smart Fats
Occupation Pool hustler
Rudolf Walter Wanderone, Jr. (January 19, 1913 – January 15, 1996; originally spelled Wanderon)[1][2] was an American professional pocket billiards player, also known as "Minnesota Fats". Though he never won a major pool tournament as "Fats", he was perhaps the most publicly recognized pool player in the United States – not only as a player, but also as an entertainer.[3] Wanderone was inducted in 1984 into the Billiard Congress of America Hall of Fame for his decades-long public promotion of pool.
Wanderone began playing at a young age in New York City. As a teenager, he became a traveling pool hustler. Later in his 30s, he moved to southern Illinois where he met and married his first wife, Evelyn. During World War II, he hustled servicemen in Norfolk, Virginia. With the end of the war, Wanderone returned to Illinois and entered semi-retirement.
Wanderone adopted the nickname "Minnesota Fats" from a character in the 1961 film The Hustler, claiming that the character was based upon him.
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Thank you for your very informed answers guys :thumb up:
I guess I fall on the side of Jay here as it's what makes most sense to ME.
There are some excellent examples (as mentioned above) of top notch champions who are great exemplars to any juniors coming through, showing exactly what it takes to become professional sports players.
And many of those champions choose not to play money matches...
I remember at the '95 US open I made a small sweat bet on Rodney playing some banger name of CJ wiley a 10 ahead set for around 5k. Rodney comes out of the gate smoking has CJ down 7 games im counting my money so my soon to come happy moment goes horribly wrong as the game drags on and CJ climbs his way back in. In the end my turned into a as CJ ended up with the cheese. I never bet against that CJ fella again.
so my soon to come happy moment goes horribly wrong as the game drags on and CJ climbs his way back in. In the end my turned into a as CJ ended up with the cheese. I never bet against that CJ fella again.
the biggest articles, and TV Shows I have been in were because of the GAMBLING..
That was an incredible match. Rodney is an AWESOME money player, I just ran a lot of racks that night and "got lucky".
I don't think gambling is the future, as a matter of fact I think gambling is pretty dead these days. What I DO believe is it's the most interesting thing we have, {to tell stories} that the general public will be interested in. We have an interesting game, we have to portrait it in the best possible way....for entertainment purposes, not to "act wholesome". :woot:
Much like the SOPRANOS, or BREAKING BAD - they aren't the "squeaky clean" occupations, but the general public LOVES to live vicariously through mobsters, criminals, and yes, pool hustlers/gamblers too.
Pool is not a 9 to 5, squeaky clean game, it's just never going to sell as such either. You can't lie about who you are and what you stand for to the public and expect them to "buy into it," and besides, the "underbelly" of pool gambling is exciting.....I know from experience that the biggest articles, and TV Shows I have been in were because of the GAMBLING.....not the ESPN Championships or tournaments.....it's ALWAYS been the gambling/hustling stories that people are intrigued with.
I do mean ALWAYS. 'The Inner Game is the Teacher'
I remember at the '95 US open I made a small sweat bet on Rodney playing some banger name of CJ wiley a 10 ahead set for around 5k. Rodney comes out of the gate smoking has CJ down 7 games im counting my money
That was an incredible match. Rodney is an AWESOME money player, I just ran a lot of racks that night and "got lucky".
I don't think gambling is the future, as a matter of fact I think gambling is pretty dead these days. What I DO believe is it's the most interesting thing we have, {to tell stories} that the general public will be interested in. We have an interesting game, we have to portrait it in the best possible way....for entertainment purposes, not to "act wholesome". :woot:
Much like the SOPRANOS, or BREAKING BAD - they aren't the "squeaky clean" occupations, but the general public LOVES to live vicariously through mobsters, criminals, and yes, pool hustlers/gamblers too.
Pool is not a 9 to 5, squeaky clean game, it's just never going to sell as such either. You can't lie about who you are and what you stand for to the public and expect them to "buy into it," and besides, the "underbelly" of pool gambling is exciting.....I know from experience that the biggest articles, and TV Shows I have been in were because of the GAMBLING.....not the ESPN Championships or tournaments.....it's ALWAYS been the gambling/hustling stories that people are intrigued with.
I do mean ALWAYS. 'The Inner Game is the Teacher'
Didn't Shane beat the best Money player in Asia gambling already. A race to 100 on TAR. I hope CJ gets back into playing seriously for big cash. He used to have a standing rule that all road players he didn't know got the six ball and always won that way. CJ gave John Hager the last four when John was playing his best and robbed John. Anyway if Americans start gambling again and pool gets a shot in the arm again, we are superior.
Very true about the Hall of Fame. In fact, even Minnesota Fats was not inducted as a player, but for meritorious service to the game. Minnesota Fats aside, though, hustlers usually do their work primarily behind closed doors with minimal fanfare and, when they do, they are not part of pro pool.
If Rodney's ready to beat all the champions to a pulp, let him return to the WPA tournament scene. Let him entertain the fans of the world while doing so and he'll pick up large chunks of money along the way in prize money, sponsorships and exhibitions, if he's as good as he believes. Given the money it would appear he has access to, the expenses of worldwide participation amount to next to nothing. A month from now, he'll face off against five of Europe's best at the Mosconi Cup. If he wants to make the kind of statement Johnny Archer made a year ago, the opportunity is right in front of him.
I am no more interested in watching Rodney Morris, a player I hold in the highest regard, beat the twenty third best European to a pulp any more than I want to watch a sixth grader beat up a third grader.
It is pro pool that offers one an opportunity to convene with most or all of the very best in one place at one time, and this is what I love about it. That's when you find out what you are made of.
Must one gamble to become a champion? I'll ask World 9-ball Champion Thorsten Hohmann next time I see him.
Just because Shane beat Orcullo in a race to 100, doesn't mean Rodney could do the same.
To me it is an exhibition.
Tournaments are pretty close to a exhibition too. In the last 5 years or so, I learned that about all of them towards the end had "savers".
To me, gambling is dealing usually with $takehor$es (a job within its self) and players who are usually broke or on their way to being broke.
$takehor$es are gambling on more levels than the freakin players, the players are just playing each other, but the $takehor$es are gambling with the other player and his $takehor$e(s), and always wondering if everyone is on the up and up either dumping, double dumping, dealing with the folks on the rail.
Ken
To me it is an exhibition.
Tournaments are pretty close to a exhibition too. In the last 5 years or so, I learned that about all of them towards the end had "savers".
To me, gambling is dealing usually with $takehor$es (a job within its self) and players who are usually broke or on their way to being broke.
$takehor$es are gambling on more levels than the freakin players, the players are just playing each other, but the $takehor$es are gambling with the other player and his $takehor$e(s), and always wondering if everyone is on the up and up either dumping, double dumping, dealing with the folks on the rail.
Ken
Oh, I see. You're referring to the Dancing Monkeys who perform for the pleasure of others and hope to get a few peanuts when the dust settles.
Personally, I don't see a difference between an exhibition match, two players duking it out on a field of tournament blue, and two players gambling that are being backed by a stakehorse. Both players are being backed.
Fats was the exception and certainly not the rule. I can name a couple of dozen great pool hustlers from Cincinnati Clem to White Rags who will never get into the HOF. By the way CJ, Fats was a very good friend of mine. And that's a fact too! I was with him the day he got inducted into the HOF. He didn't get in because he was a good hustler either.
He got in thanks to his celebrity status, which he acquired through sheer dint of personality and charisma. Fats was by far the most famous pool player of the modern era. And he didn't have to make a ball either! All he had to do was talk and everyone loved him. Of course what he had to say made sense, it wasn't a bunch of airy fairy nonsense. Can you relate?
FINALLY, we agree on something! :thumbup2:
Pathetic Shark
Banned
Shane lost to Alex and Francisco in long matches on TAR. He's not unbeatable in long matches!
Pathetic Shark
Banned
Is it? Which European players are sponsored by their governments?