8 Ball Break - Hitting the 2nd Ball

nibrobus · Sep 28, 2019

Hey guys, just had a question for those of you who are proponents of hitting the 2nd ball on your 8 ball break (either ball behind the head ball).

What english/spin do you like to use when using this break? I've heard just draw, low inside, and low outside from several different sources. It's very difficult to make a ball on the break where I play due to the balls never being cleaned. Hitting the head ball with a power break either doesn't produce much spread or the balls just never seem to make a line towards any pockets. Most of the players that have success on the break tend to use the 2nd ball break.

I observed one player who had great results drawing the cue ball off the 2nd ball, into the rail, then back into the stack. He would repeatedly make between 2-3 balls with either a wide open or fairly open layout after. I asked him how he was hitting the break and he responded with low inside. I tried the break myself but my cue ball would spin off the side rail and behind the rack rather than back into it. Any advice on how I can duplicate his break? Thanks in advance for the help!

336Robin · Sep 28, 2019

I'll have to try this one. From your post I'd guess a little less inside would get the trick done.

The 8 ball break is a deal breaker if you spread them and don't make a ball. I've had less problems with the other player running out with the 2nd ball break straight bottom English, because of clusters. I'd much prefer the clusters than watch the other player run out.

nibrobus said:
Hey guys, just had a question for those of you who are proponents of hitting the 2nd ball on your 8 ball break (either ball behind the head ball).

What english/spin do you like to use when using this break? I've heard just draw, low inside, and low outside from several different sources. It's very difficult to make a ball on the break where I play due to the balls never being cleaned. Hitting the head ball with a power break either doesn't produce much spread or the balls just never seem to make a line towards any pockets. Most of the players that have success on the break tend to use the 2nd ball break.

I observed one player who had great results drawing the cue ball off the 2nd ball, into the rail, then back into the stack. He would repeatedly make between 2-3 balls with either a wide open or fairly open layout after. I asked him how he was hitting the break and he responded with low inside. I tried the break myself but my cue ball would spin off the side rail and behind the rack rather than back into it. Any advice on how I can duplicate his break? Thanks in advance for the help!

Scratch85 · Sep 28, 2019

nibrobus said:
Hey guys, just had a question for those of you who are proponents of hitting the 2nd ball on your 8 ball break (either ball behind the head ball).

What english/spin do you like to use when using this break? I've heard just draw, low inside, and low outside from several different sources. It's very difficult to make a ball on the break where I play due to the balls never being cleaned. Hitting the head ball with a power break either doesn't produce much spread or the balls just never seem to make a line towards any pockets. Most of the players that have success on the break tend to use the 2nd ball break.

I observed one player who had great results drawing the cue ball off the 2nd ball, into the rail, then back into the stack. He would repeatedly make between 2-3 balls with either a wide open or fairly open layout after. I asked him how he was hitting the break and he responded with low inside. I tried the break myself but my cue ball would spin off the side rail and behind the rack rather than back into it. Any advice on how I can duplicate his break? Thanks in advance for the help!

IMO, too much inside. For me, the second ball break is only hit at about 80%. You also have to make sure not to hit the head ball. That changes everything so error on the side of hitting the second ball thinner. Hit it with the spin necessary to go one rail and back out to the center. Doing that is all on you, using whatever spin and speed to make it happen.

If the 8 on the break isn’t a win, there’s not a lot of value in the second ball break. Second ball break typically leaves more balls in the lower half of the table. If you think your opponent struggles with working through a congested table, then maybe it’s an advantage.

Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

Poolhall60561 · Sep 28, 2019

I hit the 2nd ball as full as possible with low and a tad bit of inside English.
To see how much of the second ball you can hit place the cue ball up against the racked balls. You can hit more of that 2nd ball than you might think. You need to get the cue back if you want a second shot. Always check the rack to see if rack is tilted a bit. Break from the best side.

With that being said your still maybe 1/50 or 1/100 on making the 8.

nibrobus · Sep 28, 2019

I really appreciate all the responses thus far, great info and advice! 8 ball is not a win in our format; if it goes in the breaker has the choice to spot the 8 and continue shooting or have re-rack and break again.

From the responses it sounds like I am using too much inside; next time I'll reduce the amount until I attain the appropriate action on the cue ball.

Although using the 2nd ball break can produce more clusters and an 8 ball on the break is not a win, I feel it's better that to make a ball and have control of the table even if it's a tough layout. I practice my power break every day and I can hit the head ball and have the cue ball squat near the middle of the table maybe 50%-70% of the time. The problem is that using my power break often results in a widespread table with no balls going in, which pretty much sells out the rack. I only have this problem playing at this particular place; anywhere else I make a ball and have a great layout more often than not.

dr_dave · Sep 28, 2019

nibrobus said:
Hey guys, just had a question for those of you who are proponents of hitting the 2nd ball on your 8 ball break (either ball behind the head ball).

What english/spin do you like to use when using this break? I've heard just draw, low inside, and low outside from several different sources. It's very difficult to make a ball on the break where I play due to the balls never being cleaned. Hitting the head ball with a power break either doesn't produce much spread or the balls just never seem to make a line towards any pockets. Most of the players that have success on the break tend to use the 2nd ball break.

I observed one player who had great results drawing the cue ball off the 2nd ball, into the rail, then back into the stack. He would repeatedly make between 2-3 balls with either a wide open or fairly open layout after. I asked him how he was hitting the break and he responded with low inside. I tried the break myself but my cue ball would spin off the side rail and behind the rack rather than back into it. Any advice on how I can duplicate his break? Thanks in advance for the help!

FYI, the 2nd ball break is covered in fairly good detail on the 8-ball break resource page. Check it out.

Whether you use a touch of backspin or sidespin depends on how square you hit the 2nd ball. I like to hit it fairly square with stun (no top or bottom spin), with no sidespin, to send the CB straight across the table back into the rack area. This gives the best chance to not scratch, to break out any balls remaining in the rack area, and to get a shot after the break (usually on the bottom half of the table).

Regards,
Dave

nibrobus · Sep 28, 2019

dr_dave said:
FYI, the 2nd ball break is covered in fairly good detail on the 8-ball break resource page. Check it out.

Whether you use a touch of backspin or sidespin depends on how square you hit the 2nd ball. I like to hit it fairly square with stun (no top or bottom spin), with no sidespin, to send the CB straight across the table back into the rack area. This gives the best chance to not scratch, to break out any balls remaining in the rack area, and to get a shot after the break (usually on the bottom half of the table).

Regards,
Dave

Thank you Dr. Dave! I've actually seen your 8 ball break video and read your 8 ball strategies page and it's a wealth of good info (as is the rest of your site). I believe I was applying too much spin whether it was low, inside, outside and combinations thereof. I'm going to try and experiment with going a little closer to the center of the cue ball and using more of a stun shot rather than a power draw.

DecentShot · Sep 28, 2019

nibrobus said:
I really appreciate all the responses thus far, great info and advice! 8 ball is not a win in our format; if it goes in the breaker has the choice to spot the 8 and continue shooting or have re-rack and break again.

From the responses it sounds like I am using too much inside; next time I'll reduce the amount until I attain the appropriate action on the cue ball.

Although using the 2nd ball break can produce more clusters and an 8 ball on the break is not a win, I feel it's better that to make a ball and have control of the table even if it's a tough layout. I practice my power break every day and I can hit the head ball and have the cue ball squat near the middle of the table maybe 50%-70% of the time. The problem is that using my power break often results in a widespread table with no balls going in, which pretty much sells out the rack. I only have this problem playing at this particular place; anywhere else I make a ball and have a great layout more often than not.

Do you have a break app? How many MPHs would you say your ideal power break gets to?

nibrobus · Sep 28, 2019

DecentShot said:
Do you have a break app? How many MPHs would you say your ideal power break gets to?

Thanks for the question! I don't have a break app currently but my buddy had one years ago. My "power" break back then was around 20-22 mph (not world class, I know).

I was finally able to purchase my own table for the first time in August of last year and have been putting in approx 1-2 hours of practice every day. Some days I have dedicated to break practice ONLY, watching YouTube videos of several pros to try and decipher some of their techniques to generate power and accuracy. From my mental radar gun, I've probably gained at least another 3 mph on my break but my accuracy has improved immensely.

When I'm hitting my break well it feels like my cue is going through the cue ball with hardly any resistance, like it's not even there. I've vastly improved my timing so it doesn't feel like I'm swinging as hard but I'm getting more speed. On my best days, the cue ball hits the head ball and pops up about a foot before squatting in between the 2 side pockets. I've had times where the cue ball has squatted in about a 6" radius from the center of the table on 5 consecutive breaks with full power.

I hope no one takes this as a boast, simply trying to improve my game and I'm grateful that all the hard work is starting to show some dividends.

Forgot to add, these results are on my BEST days. In the course of developing my break I was frequently flying the cue ball everywhere; broke my first measle ball because I flew it off the table onto my concrete garage floor too many times :embarrassed2:

iusedtoberich · Sep 28, 2019

Well for what it’s worth, I’ve never seen a top pro do anything but a power break on the head ball. The only thing exception is Corey, and well, he’s Corey

nibrobus · Sep 28, 2019

I've actually been experimenting with a Chinese 8 Ball style break too. Cue ball in a straight line down the middle of the table and draw it back a couple feet. Balls behind the head ball track to the side pockets with the right speed. I haven't had much success in my home table but it worked pretty good when I rack for 10 ball.

poolguy4u · Sep 28, 2019

.

You can hit the second ball any way you like as long as you don't scratch.

Now you can adjust the break by hitting more towards the head ball or towards the third ball.

Find a spot on the table to break from. Most people put the cue ball too close to the rail and end up with the cue ball flying off the table and they don't know why.

I usually break so my cue doesn't hit the metal part around the corner pocket.

Almost a diamond toward the center.

Some people make the eight on the break a lot more than others. It's not all luck.

And if the second ball doesn't work hit the third ball.

Oh, if the eight on the break is not a win you should just hit the head ball and end up with

the cue ball in the center of the table.

.

.

pt109 · Sep 28, 2019

Poolhall60561 said:
I hit the 2nd ball as full as possible with low and a tad bit of inside English.
To see how much of the second ball you can hit place the cue ball up against the racked balls. You can hit more of that 2nd ball than you might think. You need to get the cue back if you want a second shot. Always check the rack to see if rack is tilted a bit. Break from the best side.

With that being said your still maybe 1/50 or 1/100 on making the 8.

I’m not too experienced at 8-ball...but this is how I break.
I found head-ball breaking is too vulnerable to conditions...including how well they’re racked.
The more draw you put on the ball....the harder you can hit without flying off the table...
...and the hard draw shot goes the same place as a stun shot....
...if you use extreme draw and lay off the speed...you’ll go up table.

DecentShot · Sep 28, 2019

nibrobus said:
Thanks for the question! I don't have a break app currently but my buddy had one years ago. My "power" break back then was around 20-22 mph (not world class, I know).

I was finally able to purchase my own table for the first time in August of last year and have been putting in approx 1-2 hours of practice every day. Some days I have dedicated to break practice ONLY, watching YouTube videos of several pros to try and decipher some of their techniques to generate power and accuracy. From my mental radar gun, I've probably gained at least another 3 mph on my break but my accuracy has improved immensely.

When I'm hitting my break well it feels like my cue is going through the cue ball with hardly any resistance, like it's not even there. I've vastly improved my timing so it doesn't feel like I'm swinging as hard but I'm getting more speed. On my best days, the cue ball hits the head ball and pops up about a foot before squatting in between the 2 side pockets. I've had times where the cue ball has squatted in about a 6" radius from the center of the table on 5 consecutive breaks with full power.

I hope no one takes this as a boast, simply trying to improve my game and I'm grateful that all the hard work is starting to show some dividends.

Forgot to add, these results are on my BEST days. In the course of developing my break I was frequently flying the cue ball everywhere; broke my first measle ball because I flew it off the table onto my concrete garage floor too many times :embarrassed2:

Good response. Mine is between 21-25. However I notice that when I get past 23 into the 24-25 mph the balls don't actually fan out into a good spread..they simply cluster down on the other end of the table. It might sound cool and look cool, but the results are not. I figure, well I guess I gotta hit em 30 to spread them out after they cluster around the bottom (not gonna happen). My only other thought is, hitting the CB on the equator transfers the most energy, when done correctly the CB should feel heavy.

dakol · Sep 28, 2019

poolguy4u said:
.

Most people put the cue ball too close to the rail and end up with the cue ball flying off the table and they don't know why.[/B]

.

I had this issue. I actually videoed the break and found the cue ball was bouncing prior to contact with the rack and that is why it kept flying off the table. So yes, if you're too close to the rail you're probably elevating the cue and making the cue ball bounce.

MattPoland · Sep 28, 2019

My experience is that the head-on (ish) break only works in ideal conditions with a masterfully tight rack. The second ball break might make more 8-balls but the real value is that it better spreads and pockets balls against a loose rack. Especially in cheap bars with cheap racks and hammered down felt and inexperienced opponents racking for you (or like me if you road rack yourself often). I end up with clusters along the side rail because breaking from the side can push the balls to one rail and the can bounce back to the other rail. But that doesn’t always happen. Sometimes it just spreads nicely. But it does seem to pocket more balls. I would estimate it only takes a 17-19 MPH break.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

336Robin · Sep 28, 2019

Today I worked on this break off the second ball and the head ball. I rarely broke so well that I would sell out the rack if there wasn't a ball made although if you hit the head ball with a perfect half ball hit or thinner the scratch in the corner was in play.

Not selling out is good enough for me. I even used the head ball with bottom spin on a ten ball rack and was just as happy. Id rather have a kick battle than give up a shot.

evergruven · Sep 29, 2019

I've been hitting a few more 8-ball breaks than usual lately
echo what has been said
the second ball break usually makes clusters, good to keep a game going
hold the rock..watch the scratch in the corner
one thing I'm noticing more is the rack
I'm looking for gaps more
some success with gap(s) between the head ball and the rest of the rack
cue ball centered up
or
one diamond down and out opposite the gap, hit with inside to make the rock squat

keep experimenting
let us know what you find out

1sttbone · Sep 29, 2019

look at cue ball last

after yrs of practicing the break after linning up the cue-ball with the second ball look at your cue-ball last. stroke to rack looking at cue-ball. you will be more accurate plus have more power. the same thing applies to kicking as you line to the target then look at cue-ball last to avoid unwanted english.:thumbup:

nibrobus · Sep 29, 2019

Based on the feedback I've gotten in this thread, I decided to try the 2nd ball break with just below center ball and about a half tip to a full tip or so of inside. Didn't get to practice it before our tournament but I got some good practice after we were done.

I played around with the speed starting with around 80% power. Got decent action but I was hit and miss with making a ball (no pun intended). The times I would make a ball seemed to be off a lucky carom or the last ball rolling trickling in.

I then started reducing the speed by about 5-10%, trying about 5-6 breaks at a given speed and charting the results. For our tables (beat up Valleys with dirty cloth and balls), I found the sweet spot to be about 50-60% power. I got the corner ball to shoot straight in almost every time, another ball in the side around 50-60% of the time, and a bonus 3rd ball somewhere else a handful of times.

Furthermore, the table layout were fairly open with maybe 2, 3 clusters at the most. Position is always tight on a 7 ft. so the balls not clustered were still in very close proximity, but racks were definitely runnable with good patterns and speed control. Pros would most likely get out 80-90% of the time with the layouts I was getting.

These are the best results I've ever gotten in approx 3 years of playing at this place, much thanks to the people who responded with such helpful insight!

I am excited to implement this break in my next tourney as it's been a constant source of frustration for me. I've been fortunate enough to win our tournament the last 4-5 weeks in a row with horribly dry breaks, hopefully this can help me continue my streak!

8 Ball Break - Hitting the 2nd Ball

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