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10-29-2017, 08:35 AM

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Originally Posted by blah blah View Post
Charging less- or not charging at all- for a seat to watch would help.

Could also offer free advance tickets online to reserve spots- I'm going to a free movie tomorrow with a friend, reserved last week, and many times my friends and I have registered in advance for free club tickets to see new bands.

People will watch whatever other people are watching. Go out into a crowded shopping center and stare up at the sky. Have a friend come join you. Both of you stare upwards. Soon there will be a crowd- everyone looking up to see what you were looking at.

Politicians pay people to come watch, early in a campaign. People watching tv will see everyone who came, and they think they should pay attention, too.

Or we can continue to charge crazy VIP seat fees and years later everyone will watch the YouTubes and wonder why the bandstands were empty. They'll assume darts is a better game.
soooo you're cheap?
  
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10-29-2017, 08:56 AM

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Originally Posted by gxman View Post
Entry is $1K.
Then make it $1,250 or $1,500. I'm just thinking of a way to have a smaller field, requiring less time for hotel expense. A 4-day tournament like the Joss Turning Stone is what I am thinking.


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10-29-2017, 08:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blah blah View Post
Charging less- or not charging at all- for a seat to watch would help.

Could also offer free advance tickets online to reserve spots- I'm going to a free movie tomorrow with a friend, reserved last week, and many times my friends and I have registered in advance for free club tickets to see new bands.

People will watch whatever other people are watching. Go out into a crowded shopping center and stare up at the sky. Have a friend come join you. Both of you stare upwards. Soon there will be a crowd- everyone looking up to see what you were looking at.

Politicians pay people to come watch, early in a campaign. People watching tv will see everyone who came, and they think they should pay attention, too.

Or we can continue to charge crazy VIP seat fees and years later everyone will watch the YouTubes and wonder why the bandstands were empty. They'll assume darts is a better game.
That's a great idea!


.
  
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10-29-2017, 09:29 AM

Great event but there are definitely some big turnoffs for the fans. Here are a few examples:

1) Player timeouts in the middle of rack. This, to me, is absolutely ridiculous. A competitive, tense, exciting rack can be interrupted by this as was the case when Sanchez-Ruiz took a mid-rack break in the semifinal against Kaci during a safety battle. Timeouts are mostly for team games and are used chiefly for strategy discussions and clock management, neither of which apply to pool. Bathroom breaks should be permitted, as they are in tennis, but never in the middle of a game. The play is the thing and mid-rack breaks stink for fans. In pool, most breaks are taken for gamesmanship/momentum/psychology reasons anyway, and commentator Mark Wilson often takes note of it, once remarking "I think that's a good time for him to take his break, as the match seems to be getting away from him."

2) The match schedule is rarely adhered to, and I don't mean matches that start late because other matches hold them up. The first match of the evening session, which is never held up by another match, seemed to always start well after the announced time. In one case this week, you could watch the players warming up for over half an hour after the scheduled start time, so the match wasn't held up by the absence of the players. There is also too much time between matches. The result of all this is that a lot of matches go into the wee hours of the morning, and whether I'm there, or watching on the stream, it often means that I miss these matches, which seem to be played played in front of zero fans.

3) Commentators, some good and some awful, are always unprepared, knowing little about player accomplishments, little about the head-to-head history between the competitors, and even less about the lives of the players. Mark Wilson spent a lot of time talking about the jet-lag issue during a Ko Pin-Yi match, often trying to explain away some mistakes, but the truth is that Ko Pin-Yi, who had played in the event at Gotham in Brooklyn, NY, the week before, had already been in the USA for at least two weeks. This is all a shame for both stream-buyers and the attendees, who generally buy the headsets so they can listen to the commentary, which is badly uninformed. Either get commentators who closely follow the pro pool tournament scene or arm commentators with fact sheets that enable them to offer insights about the players, their accomplishments, etc.

Last edited by sjm; 10-29-2017 at 09:42 AM.
  
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10-29-2017, 09:34 AM

One thing is for certain. I did not see any open seats when the finals was played.

It was a packed house and Shaw was super exciting to watch. The US Open has stood the test of time.
  
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10-29-2017, 09:57 AM

Who owns the US Open now? Is it Pat Fleming, the Behrmans, or maybe they are co-owners?
  
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10-29-2017, 11:22 AM

He'll be there in spirit! LOL

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Just to bear out what you're saying about the game we love..........I happened to mention to some people at a social event that I was planning on going to the Super Billiards Expo in 2018.
3 or 4 of them said...."Will Minnesota Fats be there?"
That about says it all....


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10-29-2017, 11:26 AM

One of the commentators said Big Ko won a world title at 16 or around there. I think he was thinking about Wu.
  
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10-29-2017, 11:31 AM

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Originally Posted by JAM View Post
Then make it $1,250 or $1,500. I'm just thinking of a way to have a smaller field, requiring less time for hotel expense. A 4-day tournament like the Joss Turning Stone is what I am thinking.
The problem is they need more tables. 139 player field, double elimination, race to 11 with 13 tables is going to take a long time.
  
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  (#40)
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10-29-2017, 11:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blah blah View Post
Charging less- or not charging at all- for a seat to watch would help.

Could also offer free advance tickets online to reserve spots- I'm going to a free movie tomorrow with a friend, reserved last week, and many times my friends and I have registered in advance for free club tickets to see new bands.

People will watch whatever other people are watching. Go out into a crowded shopping center and stare up at the sky. Have a friend come join you. Both of you stare upwards. Soon there will be a crowd- everyone looking up to see what you were looking at.

Politicians pay people to come watch, early in a campaign. People watching tv will see everyone who came, and they think they should pay attention, too.

Or we can continue to charge crazy VIP seat fees and years later everyone will watch the YouTubes and wonder why the bandstands were empty. They'll assume darts is a better game.
Still doesn’t fix the at home viewership needed to bring major sponsorship in. Which is the only thing that will ever make things better.

The problem doesn’t lie in manufacturing crowds. This method is used when something new is introduced, or you have a short term goal(political elections).

Pool in its current form has been around quite a long time, so we are past trying to manufacture/trick people into watching.

The only way you could even begin to use this method is if you could get 30k people in a stadium(never happen). The average person has seen a professional event such as the NFL and that’s what they will unconsciously be comparing it to. Otherwise, even if stands are packed, it will still be a crowd of only a few hundred, and that won’t be enough to impress anyone.

So, using your suggestion, promoters wouldn’t make enough to justify them putting on the tournaments and eventually would stop.

I believe the US viewership will have to evolve again for pool to become popular with the general public. It used to be fairly popular in the mosconi days. Now everything is high speed/impact. NBA, NFL, MLB, UFC, NASCAR.....etc. It evolved to this over time and it may evolve back into games with less action.

When/if it does, one organization will have to come out on top as the major league of pool(notice all the things I listed are actually leagues/organizations), to unite most of the talent into one area.
  
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10-29-2017, 12:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjm View Post
Great event but there are definitely some big turnoffs for the fans. Here are a few examples:

1) Player timeouts in the middle of rack. This, to me, is absolutely ridiculous. A competitive, tense, exciting rack can be interrupted by this as was the case when Sanchez-Ruiz took a mid-rack break in the semifinal against Kaci during a safety battle. Timeouts are mostly for team games and are used chiefly for strategy discussions and clock management, neither of which apply to pool. Bathroom breaks should be permitted, as they are in tennis, but never in the middle of a game. The play is the thing and mid-rack breaks stink for fans. In pool, most breaks are taken for gamesmanship/momentum/psychology reasons anyway, and commentator Mark Wilson often takes note of it, once remarking "I think that's a good time for him to take his break, as the match seems to be getting away from him."

Totally agree, but at least (thank God) they're now using the MagicRack, which eliminates those endless racking and re-racking performances by the likes of Dechaine and Hatch. I can't believe there still are tournaments that use the wooden racks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sjm View Post
2) The match schedule is rarely adhered to, and I don't mean matches that start late because other matches hold them up. The first match of the evening session, which is never held up by another match, seemed to always start well after the announced time. In one case this week, you could watch the players warming up for over half an hour after the scheduled start time, so the match wasn't held up by the absence of the players. There is also too much time between matches. The result of all this is that a lot of matches go into the wee hours of the morning, and whether I'm there, or watching on the stream, it often means that I miss these matches, which seem to be played played in front of zero fans.
I bought the entire TV package, but nearly every "10:30" match ran so late that it was almost impossible to stay up and watch more than 1 or 2 of them. And while I know the scheduling is tough to do with all the surrounding international tournaments, it'd be nice not to have to have the premier event of pool scheduled to compete with the premier event of baseball, AKA The World Series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjm View Post
3) Commentators, some good and some awful, are always unprepared, knowing little about player accomplishments, little about the head-to-head history between the competitors, and even less about the lives of the players. Mark Wilson spent a lot of time talking about the jet-lag issue during a Ko Pin-Yi match, often trying to explain away some mistakes, but the truth is that Ko Pin-Yi, who had played in the event at Gotham in Brooklyn, NY, the week before, had already been in the USA for at least two weeks. This is all a shame for both stream-buyers and the attendees, who generally buy the headsets so they can listen to the commentary, which is badly uninformed. Either get commentators who closely follow the pro pool tournament scene or arm commentators with fact sheets that enable them to offer insights about the players, their accomplishments, etc.
I've gotta say that other than JJ and (sometimes) Mark, the commentating has gone way downhill since Grady and "Incardon" were in their primes. I love Danny D, but he seemed about half there much of the time, mixing up balls and predicting strange shot choices.

But at least Danny D can be entertaining, and his knowledge of the game is unsurpassed. What was the excuse for some of those morning match commentators? I've never heard commentating that sorry in my entire life. They brought NOTHING to the event except a lot of rambling on about nothing.
  
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10-29-2017, 12:34 PM

I think all tournaments should be single elimination, with a bit longer of a race.

I also really liked the break format they had at the US Open this year.
  
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10-29-2017, 01:50 PM

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Originally Posted by gxman View Post
The problem is they need more tables. 139 player field, double elimination, race to 11 with 13 tables is going to take a long time.
I THINK he won the WPC-Juniors Div
  
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10-29-2017, 07:13 PM

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Originally Posted by Nostroke View Post
Who owns the US Open now? Is it Pat Fleming, the Behrmans, or maybe they are co-owners?
The Behrmans own a 100% of the open, Pat is just the tournament director, I also heard Pat say he does not own any part of the open.


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10-30-2017, 04:44 AM

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Speaking as someone who's attended the Open, albeit many moons ago, I love the fact that they end it on Saturday now, allowing folks to have a day to recuperate and return home on Sunday. For the working stiffs, I do like that format much better.

I don't know if they could shorten the week to make it happen in 4 days, like Mike Zuglan's $25,000-added Joss Tour Turning Stone events. I do like the fact that there are only two business days missed if you attend that tournament.

Keith said this is the toughest field at the Open he's ever seen. I'm thinking they should raise the entry fee to $1,000 a man and shorten the player field. I'll bet it fills up way ahead of time, like Zuglan's Turning Stone events do, if they did that. Just a thought.

As far a fans and spectators, pool has never attracetd the masses. We're a small sub-culture in society. Though we are very passionate about pool, 99 percnet of the world has no idea who Efren Reyes or Earl Strickland or Ronnie O'Sullivan or Ralf Souquet is.
I bet a lot more know who Ronnie is.
  
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