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RADAR
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Smile 01-16-2019, 05:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mister__p View Post
In my 30+ years of playing snooker and pool I have come across many good players and noticed they fall into three main groups.

1. Those who only use roll, center, draw but english much less. Their game is built on their excellent positional play with a goal to keep every shot as simple as possible. They avoid heavy english to avoid misses caused by squirt. Not surprisingly, this group is comprised mostly of snooker players (inc me)

2. Those who spin. They love to spin the ball and to make crowd pleasing shots. On a good day on a table they know, they will play well but if the table is unfamiliar and plays differently, they can sometimes struggle to get into their groove.


3. Those in between 1 and 2. They use light english frequently but heavy english only on a need to basis if the risk is low.


This where I disagree with you as I do think any pro/amateur snooker/pool player of type 1 will be more than able to pick up a decent straight cue with a decent tip and chalk and make a nice break/run with it. This in contrast to some pool players who only know the flamboyent game and who rely on LD shafts, special tips and chalk.



Maybe not. Don't under estimate his ability to adapt as someone else said.

Personally, I can play just as well with a house cue as I play with my 314/Z2/Z3 because I seldom need to use heavy english. When I use a house cue, I also consciously make sure I am even more careful/conservative in my position play.



I like your analogy but you forget there's wind !. Ever played on a wonky table ? a couple of tables at my local have a bad left -> right roll. Softs shots are a no no

Back to the original topic - I owned two Revos before I noticed defects and got my money back. In terms of play, they played very similarly to my wood shafts except the sound was odd. My accuracy and ability to win/lose was no different. That said, as someone who avoids heavy english, the Revo was never going to make a difference to my game - perhaps only a bit of novelty to my collection
Your right sir i like the category #1 those boys can play with a broom handle & beat a lot people!
  
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DWreckTheBoss
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01-16-2019, 07:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
How much do you think the Revo improved your game - 1 ball, like you mentioned earlier? Thatís a massive difference. What was your previous cue, and what specifically about the Revo makes you better? Iím sorry, but Iím skeptical, and Iíd like to know the reason that you play better with one cue vs. another - what are the properties of the cue that translate into better play.

I want to have good equipment, but I never thought about it like ďplaying with this cue, Iím a ball better than playing with that cue.Ē Sure, if the cue is broken or the tip is falling off, that makes a difference. And yes some cars are faster than others, Iím not saying there is no difference between any equipment in any domain lol. But between two decent, modern cues, like a wood Predator vs. Revo? Iím really skeptical that it can make someone play perceptibly better.
There are probably a lot of factors that could make this true I imagine. A slightly imperfect hit on a shot, accidentally imparting some left/right, creating some deflection. A non LD shaft could deflect enough to miss the shot. Is the guy better really? He is the person who made the poor contact. He was able to make the shot though and continue his run. Even if this is a relatively rare occurrence in said person's game, it is feasible he could be more consistent with a LD shaft in general.

One thing the Revo made me start doing is playing the cue ball closer to center. With the less deflection it certainly seems like my consistency has improved and I can still move the cue ball very well. With the amount of shots I have poorly adjusted though because of years of wood shafts, any accuracy gained is probably a wash until I really get used to the stick. It is hard to say if my overall accuracy has increased.

One thing is has definitely improved is my ability to hold the cue ball on the break while really putting some power into the shot. (I think it is just a function of LD, even when I really slam the balls and miss my contact point, the deflection is not so bad that my hit misses the spot I was aiming badly.) Before I would lose the cue ball often, occasionally even thinning the head ball and flying the cue. While I don't keep actual stats, it has been a huge improvement in my game. Squatting the cue and making a ball very often gives me much better chances, especially compared to the times I used to break them well and give my opponent BIH.

One thing people have touched on is confidence. That could be another factor. If due to the reasons stated above, I feel more confident, I will likely play better. Seems like there could definitely be merit to this, I know when I am stroking very smooth and free and seeing the ball well, the game because much easier.

All of these things are flaws in my game that I am continually working to improve, but the shaft has definitely made me see positive results. I imagine that if I had never played with a wooden shaft, some of the mental adjustments for a long drawing english shot wouldn't exist.

Do I think it has realistically made my game better? Only slightly for the reasons stated, but they are problems I can and will overcome anyway. Having a shaft that I don't clean, don't repair dings, and don't have to test for warping coupled with what I assume will be a longer lifetime than any wooden cue makes it worth spending a few extra dollars. I have had a shaft warp, and I have had a shaft split. Those two sticks alone were close enough to the price of a REVO that buying one seems to be a no brainer. If 10,000 hours later it is still a quality product that has done everything it says it is supposed to in terms of durability, then a nickel per hour seems totally reasonable.


Playing Cue: Players G-Series B/W no wrap
Breaking Cue: Predator BK-Rush no wrap 18 oz
Case: J&J 4x8 Black Vinyl Hard Case
Accessories:
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Magic Rack (Almost Retired)
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Upgrading to a Revo playing shaft (Butt undetermined) and a Hanshew jump cue when they become available.
  
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railbird99
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01-16-2019, 08:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mister__p View Post
In my 30+ years of playing snooker and pool I have come across many good players and noticed they fall into three main groups.

1. Those who only use roll, center, draw but english much less. Their game is built on their excellent positional play with a goal to keep every shot as simple as possible. They avoid heavy english to avoid misses caused by squirt. Not surprisingly, this group is comprised mostly of snooker players (inc me)

2. Those who spin. They love to spin the ball and to make crowd pleasing shots. On a good day on a table they know, they will play well but if the table is unfamiliar and plays differently, they can sometimes struggle to get into their groove.


3. Those in between 1 and 2. They use light english frequently but heavy english only on a need to basis if the risk is low.

This where I disagree with you as I do think any pro/amateur snooker/pool player of type 1 will be more than able to pick up a decent straight cue with a decent tip and chalk and make a nice break/run with it. This in contrast to some pool players who only know the flamboyent game and who rely on LD shafts, special tips and chalk.



Maybe not. Don't under estimate his ability to adapt as someone else said.

Personally, I can play just as well with a house cue as I play with my 314/Z2/Z3 because I seldom need to use heavy english. When I use a house cue, I also consciously make sure I am even more careful/conservative in my position play.



I like your analogy but you forget there's wind !. Ever played on a wonky table ? a couple of tables at my local have a bad left -> right roll. Softs shots are a no no

Back to the original topic - I owned two Revos before I noticed defects and got my money back. In terms of play, they played very similarly to my wood shafts except the sound was odd. My accuracy and ability to win/lose was no different. That said, as someone who avoids heavy english, the Revo was never going to make a difference to my game - perhaps only a bit of novelty to my collection
There aren't any type 1 pro players. There are pro players who use less english than others, but using english is an essential part of any pro's game. They don't play pin point position without english. That isn't to say some pros don't try to minimize english, but even those pros are going to have to shoot shots that require a lot of english, under pressure. If good position requires english, they are going to use it, period. You don't get to that level avoiding english.

If you read a post of mine earlier in this thread, I did not dispute that a pro can pick up a new stick, or even a broom and run a rack with it. What you're not understanding is that running a simple rack with no pressure is a far cry away from playing world class pool against world class opponents under pressure. They can not do this with equipment they aren't intimately familiar with.

Again, I'll defer to the John Schmidt example. Just because your intuition tells you pros can do anything and adapt to anything doesn't make it true. You tell me not to underestimate Shane's ability to adapt to new equipment. Well, don't overestimate that ability.

EDIT: Here's John Schmidt explaining how hard it is to change equipment: https://youtu.be/u8KsVm9ePlk?t=1746

Last edited by railbird99; 01-16-2019 at 09:01 AM.
  
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rexus31
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01-16-2019, 12:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by railbird99 View Post
There aren't any type 1 pro players. There are pro players who use less english than others, but using english is an essential part of any pro's game. They don't play pin point position without english. That isn't to say some pros don't try to minimize english, but even those pros are going to have to shoot shots that require a lot of english, under pressure. If good position requires english, they are going to use it, period. You don't get to that level avoiding english.
You are spot on. I had the opportunity to take a lesson from Dennis Orcullo. At the end of the lesson he asked if I had any questions for him. I asked, "What percentage of your shots do you use english?" With a puzzled look on his face after I asked, he firmly but politely responded, "All of them." This was validation for me because I use english on every shot whether it be to hold the cue ball or move the cue ball. IMO, it is necessary to play at a high level.


"What 'aint no country I ever heard of. They speak English in What?" - Jules Winnfield
  
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Get_A_Grip
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01-16-2019, 02:19 PM

Does anyone know when we will be able to get the Cynergy 15K shaft in uni-loc?

I have the 12.4 mm Revo, the 12 mm Prime M, but I also now want to try the Cynergy shaft to see if maybe I would prefer that one even more than the other 2.


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01-18-2019, 04:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Get_A_Grip View Post
Does anyone know when we will be able to get the Cynergy 15K shaft in uni-loc?

I have the 12.4 mm Revo, the 12 mm Prime M, but I also now want to try the Cynergy shaft to see if maybe I would prefer that one even more than the other 2.
I'm wondering the same about Revo, except in 3/8 x 10.

If it's not soon, I'll probably just buy the Cynergy once it's back in stock.
  
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01-18-2019, 07:17 AM

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Originally Posted by rexus31 View Post
You are spot on. I had the opportunity to take a lesson from Dennis Orcullo. At the end of the lesson he asked if I had any questions for him. I asked, "What percentage of your shots do you use english?" With a puzzled look on his face after I asked, he firmly but politely responded, "All of them." This was validation for me because I use english on every shot whether it be to hold the cue ball or move the cue ball. IMO, it is necessary to play at a high level.
"Too much spiiiiiiiiiin"
  
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01-18-2019, 07:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Get_A_Grip View Post
Does anyone know when we will be able to get the Cynergy 15K shaft in uni-loc?

I have the 12.4 mm Revo, the 12 mm Prime M, but I also now want to try the Cynergy shaft to see if maybe I would prefer that one even more than the other 2.
I was told by a good source that they would be available sometime next month... so soon!!
  
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rexus31
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01-18-2019, 08:45 AM

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Originally Posted by poolhustler View Post
"too much spiiiiiiiiiin"
lmao!!!!!!


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01-18-2019, 06:36 PM

I'm guessing the first batch of Cuetec Cynergy shafts ran out pretty quickly. Seybert's told me they would have them the end of Dec. and they were out before I found out. Either they are selling like Revo's or they intentionally short shipped to drive up interest. I wonder when the 2nd batch will be delivered to dealers?
  
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