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02-25-2019, 11:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooker Theory View Post
Having read all 6 pages I wondered that myself, although, for whatever it's worth, the name calling based upon my past experiences, might result in a time out,(although I think we are without a moderator at this point, so who knows).

In my opinion, no reason to get so worked up, take the refund and call it a day.
There was no name calling from me. Yes, AFTER thinking about it I VAGUELY remember this situation.

I could not recognize this guy though. I have zero clue what he looks like, age, skin color etc... But I do remember someone asking me if an interior was supposed to come out and me showing them that yes it does and how to put it back in. I am reasonably sure that I would have tested it and not allowed it to leave the booth if I had detected any problem with it.

Any time outs given in this thread should ONLY go to the OP who was malicious from the first post.


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02-26-2019, 05:48 AM

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Originally Posted by JB Cases View Post
There was no name calling from me. Yes, AFTER thinking about it I VAGUELY remember this situation.

I could not recognize this guy though. I have zero clue what he looks like, age, skin color etc... But I do remember someone asking me if an interior was supposed to come out and me showing them that yes it does and how to put it back in. I am reasonably sure that I would have tested it and not allowed it to leave the booth if I had detected any problem with it.

Any time outs given in this thread should ONLY go to the OP who was malicious from the first post.
I'm basically the village idiot of AZ, so don't worry about responding to me.

At the end of the day, I would have used different words addressing a customers issue(not saying you are wrong in anyway, it's your business) but the action of offering a full refund is about the best you can do in terms of actually resolving a situation, besides being nice.

Not sure what more the original poster wanted, after thinking about it, he either was looking for an additional freebie, or for you to act like "the customer is always right" and who knows, maybe he was?

Maybe he didn't care as much about the case/money as the perceived slight by you. When you said" we send out new interiors to customers each week if they have problems with them." As a fellow business owner, I sell a few products, and I certainly don't have replacements going out on weekly basis(that would suggest bad QC), which also struck me as an odd statement, and lends credibility to OP's post.

Reading through your posts, to me it seemed like you were fairly positive that the situation didn't happen like original poster described, then in your response to me you said "
AFTER thinking about it I VAGUELY remember this situation".

Now, I can sorta see why the original poster got annoyed and typed "
YOUR A LIAR..You did tuck in my interior and just gave it back to me after 20 seconds".
Did you inspect his case, was it one of the interior that would break in the spot you mentioned, if you don't remember, how can you say for sure what you did?

If you ship out interiors weekly to unhappy customers, then why not just give him one in person at the event? (Rhetorical question)

Op seems to remember very clearly what happened, I wouldn't downplay or question a customer, especially if I didn't remember the situation, that's just me though.

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03-02-2019, 10:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooker Theory View Post
I'm basically the village idiot of AZ, so don't worry about responding to me.

At the end of the day, I would have used different words addressing a customers issue(not saying you are wrong in anyway, it's your business) but the action of offering a full refund is about the best you can do in terms of actually resolving a situation, besides being nice.

Not sure what more the original poster wanted, after thinking about it, he either was looking for an additional freebie, or for you to act like "the customer is always right" and who knows, maybe he was?

Maybe he didn't care as much about the case/money as the perceived slight by you. When you said" we send out new interiors to customers each week if they have problems with them." As a fellow business owner, I sell a few products, and I certainly don't have replacements going out on weekly basis(that would suggest bad QC), which also struck me as an odd statement, and lends credibility to OP's post.

Reading through your posts, to me it seemed like you were fairly positive that the situation didn't happen like original poster described, then in your response to me you said "
AFTER thinking about it I VAGUELY remember this situation".

Now, I can sorta see why the original poster got annoyed and typed "
YOUR A LIAR..You did tuck in my interior and just gave it back to me after 20 seconds".
Did you inspect his case, was it one of the interior that would break in the spot you mentioned, if you don't remember, how can you say for sure what you did?

If you ship out interiors weekly to unhappy customers, then why not just give him one in person at the event? (Rhetorical question)

Op seems to remember very clearly what happened, I wouldn't downplay or question a customer, especially if I didn't remember the situation, that's just me though.
I have to reply.

1. the customer claims 20 seconds....he also made other claims that are simply not true so whatever he claims is dubious. The fact is that AFTER I started thinking about it I do remember and there was nothing wrong with the case. In any event this was not my first show and not my first time dealing with looking at a case that a customer brought to the booth. My staff knows that I am utra critical and cherish shows as a place to REALLY get a good look at how the cases are holding up in the real world. I have, IN FACT, seen people with our case on their shoulder and noticed something wrong and literally dragged them to our booth just to repair or replace their case. So there is truly almost no way that I didn't inspect this case long enough to determine that it wasn't defective. I could have just grabbed a brand new case off the wall and handed it to him with zero issue on my end - it's the sort of thing I do and am actually known for.

2. We have a lifetime warranty. So when we send out a few interiors a week you are talking about at most couple hundred interiors a year vs over ten thousand cases sold. BUT I forgot to mention that while there was a period where the interiors were prone to breaking at the spot mentioned once discovered the problem was fixed so the actual number of interiors that were made that way is unknown but it is not thousands and is likely to be less than a couple hundred. So the incidence of replacement for that issue has a finite number and we just handle them as they come in.

3. Was not a QC issue, just an issue where a slight change was made that didn't appear to affect the construction and was not anything that QC would have caught. Now the construction has been changed to make sure that problem can't happen.

4. I could have been nicer for sure but I ask you to go and read the "review" and ask yourself if it doesn't really sound more like a hit piece?


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03-03-2019, 05:52 PM

john
i posted this in a previous post
lets say you were a jerk and there is nothing wrong with his case
you still offered
to pay gil castillo
THE FULL RETAIL COST OF YOUR CASE TO OFFSET THE OPS COST TO REPLACE YOUR CASE WITH A CASTILLO IF HE WOULD RETURN THE CASE
as far as customer service
WHAT MORE CAN YOU DO ????
p.s. i have several of your cases and they are GREAT
  
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03-03-2019, 06:18 PM

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Originally Posted by JB Cases View Post
I have to reply.
You honestly don't have to reply, you seem very much like the kind of guy that likes to always get the last word in.

I say that as a guy who likes to get the last word in, at least when I am right. Takes one to know one as they say, I don't know you, so of course I could be making a critical error in judging your personality, if I am, my apologies.


Lets say you send out 700- 1000 interiors a year(2-3 a week, you said a "few" per week), and sold 10,000 cases, that's means 7-10 % of your cases have problems with the interior(or at least perceived problems from your customers).

I would fire everyone if one of the products I sold, 7-10% the products were having a warranty claim filed. I don't build cases, so heck that number might be great for the industry. Seems terrible to me.


I have to ask what exactly is a hit piece, you do realize some people care more about principles than money right? The original poster had a problem, I think he has a right to voice his opinion, he apparently doesn't care about the money/case and was more concerned with letting people know his personal experience dealing with you.

If you take your wife to dinner for your anniversary, the staff brings your food out, and didn't make her food, the waiter is rude and you both end up having a bad evening.

Does a monetary refund for your wife mean that neither of you can no longer talk about the experience?
A different situation of course, but I think parallels can be made.

As for the comment "the actual number of interiors that were made that way{defective} is unknown but it is not thousands and is likely to be less than a couple hundred". I have to ask how you have no idea how many were done that way, but can say that it only is in the hundreds.
  
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03-04-2019, 07:23 AM

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Originally Posted by Snooker Theory View Post
You honestly don't have to reply, you seem very much like the kind of guy that likes to always get the last word in.

I say that as a guy who likes to get the last word in, at least when I am right. Takes one to know one as they say, I don't know you, so of course I could be making a critical error in judging your personality, if I am, my apologies.


Lets say you send out 700- 1000 interiors a year(2-3 a week, you said a "few" per week), and sold 10,000 cases, that's means 7-10 % of your cases have problems with the interior(or at least perceived problems from your customers).

I would fire everyone if one of the products I sold, 7-10% the products were having a warranty claim filed. I don't build cases, so heck that number might be great for the industry. Seems terrible to me.


I have to ask what exactly is a hit piece, you do realize some people care more about principles than money right? The original poster had a problem, I think he has a right to voice his opinion, he apparently doesn't care about the money/case and was more concerned with letting people know his personal experience dealing with you.

If you take your wife to dinner for your anniversary, the staff brings your food out, and didn't make her food, the waiter is rude and you both end up having a bad evening.

Does a monetary refund for your wife mean that neither of you can no longer talk about the experience?
A different situation of course, but I think parallels can be made.

As for the comment "the actual number of interiors that were made that way{defective} is unknown but it is not thousands and is likely to be less than a couple hundred". I have to ask how you have no idea how many were done that way, but can say that it only is in the hundreds.
You've made some AWFULLY long posts for someone completely on the periphery of this deal. Just curious as to why? You related to OP?
  
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03-04-2019, 07:34 AM

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Originally Posted by garczar View Post
You've made some AWFULLY long posts for someone completely on the periphery of this deal. Just curious as to why? You related to OP?
Probably to much time in the NPR, although this is a forum, so people type stuff, share their opinions. Also a business owner, I find some of the comments interesting.

I don't think a full refund means someone can't share their experience and has to forever shut up about the situation, which if you look at the second post in this thread, I know that is the general consensus from people on here.
  
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03-05-2019, 03:35 PM

Let me shed some light on this because I was one of the people who came with vsmavs23 to the expo and was with hom in the booth. I witnessed the ENTIRE interaction. I remember everything because I was going to buy a JB case that day. But that was before. Here's what I posted on his "Answering a bad review" video.

I was with that customer at the Super Billiards Expo in 2018. I remember our experience vividly. I was unimpressed.

John stuck a bunch of cues in the case and started pulling them out, saying "I don't see any problem with it." Which is when we explained that the liner of the case was loose. It would not seat fully into the shell of the case. If it was seated properly, it probably would have been fine. We couldn't remove the liner from the case either, for an unknown reason the liner wouldnt come out of the case more than halfway. He never offered to repair or replace it when we told him our complaints. He just passive aggresively kept pulling cues out of the case and saying "I don't see a problem with it" instead of addressing our concerns. We know that the case holds cues. And that the liners are removable. That wasn't our complaint. Not to mention, the joint collar on a $2900 Cognoscenti got chipped because the case liner wasnt properly seated in the case.

You have an upset customer because you didn't address his concern. That's why he went elsewhere. You didn't offer to replace the liner, the case, or spend enough time to address or fix our concern. Why? Is it because pushing sales is more important than dealing with your customers? That's why you're starring in this video.

You missed a golden opportunity to show the hundreds of people in your booth that you truly stand behind your product. I'm not trying to be rude. But you would have impressed a lot more people by taking five minutes at the Expo in 2018 resolving a real customer problem in front of your potential buyers.

This video shows me that you took a customer complaint about your product and an instance of poor customer service personally. Not professionally. I understand the need to defend your brand and your reputation. But the precedent you are setting for yourself is a bad one. I don't expect you to bend over backwards and go outside the realm of reasonable discourse to make everyone happy. We are hardworking people just like you. We want our nice things to last. We spend hard earned money on your case for a lifetime warranty and a reliable product. All you had to do was find common ground with the owner of the case. But you failed to do that. When it became evident that you were uninvested in us as cutomers, we left your booth dissatisfied and took our business elsewhere. I almost bought one of your cases with $300 cash in hand until I saw the way you interacted with the person who posted that review (both at the expo and online). I read the forums, nobody was in the right. You lost my sale because you didn't listen to the customer. And because you acted unprofessionally. If I decided to share a negative review, I certainly don't want to end up dealing with the backlash months later.

Why didn't you just replace the liner or have one of your staff figure something out to address our concerns? You never even pulled the liner out. You just shuffled cues in and out of it and treated us dismissively. You did zero investigation. You basically told us nothing was wrong when we told you we had a problem. You invalidated our concerns by doing that.

I worked customer service for 6 years. Here's the takeaway. Your potential buyers will become your existing buyers. Your existing buyers will become return buyers if they liked their experience. If they don't like their experience, they will become former buyers and caution potential buyers against becoming existing buyers because of their negative experience. It's also 10 times more expensive to gain a new customer than it is to keep an existing one.

That experience with your brand begins the first time you hear about a product. Not after the product has a problem. Not after the customer reaches out to you, not after you respond to a negative review.

I was your potential buyer, I really wanted a JB case and my first experience was a negative one. Nothing personal. I didn't like how you handled the situation.

Now I'm looking for other brands. The industry is competitive, and that's all it takes. I'm sure Gil was happy to sell him a case. That's how advertising works. Your existing customers will push more sales for you than any advertising campaign. They'll also cost you a lot of sales if you continue to treat them poorly.
  
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Thumbs up 03-06-2019, 06:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffn741 View Post
Let me shed some light on this because I was one of the people who came with vsmavs23 to the expo and was with hom in the booth. I witnessed the ENTIRE interaction. I remember everything because I was going to buy a JB case that day. But that was before. Here's what I posted on his "Answering a bad review" video.

I was with that customer at the Super Billiards Expo in 2018. I remember our experience vividly. I was unimpressed.

John stuck a bunch of cues in the case and started pulling them out, saying "I don't see any problem with it." Which is when we explained that the liner of the case was loose. It would not seat fully into the shell of the case. If it was seated properly, it probably would have been fine. We couldn't remove the liner from the case either, for an unknown reason the liner wouldnt come out of the case more than halfway. He never offered to repair or replace it when we told him our complaints. He just passive aggresively kept pulling cues out of the case and saying "I don't see a problem with it" instead of addressing our concerns. We know that the case holds cues. And that the liners are removable. That wasn't our complaint. Not to mention, the joint collar on a $2900 Cognoscenti got chipped because the case liner wasnt properly seated in the case.

You have an upset customer because you didn't address his concern. That's why he went elsewhere. You didn't offer to replace the liner, the case, or spend enough time to address or fix our concern. Why? Is it because pushing sales is more important than dealing with your customers? That's why you're starring in this video.

You missed a golden opportunity to show the hundreds of people in your booth that you truly stand behind your product. I'm not trying to be rude. But you would have impressed a lot more people by taking five minutes at the Expo in 2018 resolving a real customer problem in front of your potential buyers.

This video shows me that you took a customer complaint about your product and an instance of poor customer service personally. Not professionally. I understand the need to defend your brand and your reputation. But the precedent you are setting for yourself is a bad one. I don't expect you to bend over backwards and go outside the realm of reasonable discourse to make everyone happy. We are hardworking people just like you. We want our nice things to last. We spend hard earned money on your case for a lifetime warranty and a reliable product. All you had to do was find common ground with the owner of the case. But you failed to do that. When it became evident that you were uninvested in us as cutomers, we left your booth dissatisfied and took our business elsewhere. I almost bought one of your cases with $300 cash in hand until I saw the way you interacted with the person who posted that review (both at the expo and online). I read the forums, nobody was in the right. You lost my sale because you didn't listen to the customer. And because you acted unprofessionally. If I decided to share a negative review, I certainly don't want to end up dealing with the backlash months later.

Why didn't you just replace the liner or have one of your staff figure something out to address our concerns? You never even pulled the liner out. You just shuffled cues in and out of it and treated us dismissively. You did zero investigation. You basically told us nothing was wrong when we told you we had a problem. You invalidated our concerns by doing that.

I worked customer service for 6 years. Here's the takeaway. Your potential buyers will become your existing buyers. Your existing buyers will become return buyers if they liked their experience. If they don't like their experience, they will become former buyers and caution potential buyers against becoming existing buyers because of their negative experience. It's also 10 times more expensive to gain a new customer than it is to keep an existing one.

That experience with your brand begins the first time you hear about a product. Not after the product has a problem. Not after the customer reaches out to you, not after you respond to a negative review.

I was your potential buyer, I really wanted a JB case and my first experience was a negative one. Nothing personal. I didn't like how you handled the situation.

Now I'm looking for other brands. The industry is competitive, and that's all it takes. I'm sure Gil was happy to sell him a case. That's how advertising works. Your existing customers will push more sales for you than any advertising campaign. They'll also cost you a lot of sales if you continue to treat them poorly.
No opinion on what happened BUT this just might be the most well spoken, clearly written response of any kind i've seen on-line. You make a LOT of good points. Nice post.
  
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03-07-2019, 10:26 AM

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Originally Posted by garczar View Post
No opinion on what happened BUT this just might be the most well spoken, clearly written response of any kind i've seen on-line. You make a LOT of good points. Nice post.
Not to mention that's his ONLY post.... member since 2015


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03-07-2019, 11:46 AM

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Not to mention that's his ONLY post.... member since 2015
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03-07-2019, 12:35 PM

Call me a liar all you want. This cue was freshly refinished to sell at the expo.
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03-07-2019, 12:42 PM

I'd bet JB has more happy case owning customers than dissatisfied for whatever reason. After offering a full refund payable to a competitor, in this instance, he has stood tall in my opinion. I do not own a JB case, but I would not be discouraged from purchasing from him because of this thread. Just the opposite.
I hope the Op gets and enjoys his new Castillo case. I also wish John continued success. I also wish I hadn't slow rolled the 6 and blown shape on the 8 last night... Hindsight is 20/20. Matt D.
  
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03-08-2019, 04:21 AM

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Originally Posted by billiardthought View Post
Not to mention that's his ONLY post.... member since 2015
My statement ONLY dealt with the writing quality. A LOT of posts on AZ look to be written by a third grader. At least this one was actually easy to follow. I really couldn't care less about the outcome of this deal. I know how how JB does business and while he can be a tad combative when pushed he stands 100% behind what he sells. I'd buy one of his cases in a heartbeat.
  
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03-10-2019, 05:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffn741 View Post
Let me shed some light on this because I was one of the people who came with vsmavs23 to the expo and was with hom in the booth. I witnessed the ENTIRE interaction. I remember everything because I was going to buy a JB case that day. But that was before. Here's what I posted on his "Answering a bad review" video.

I was with that customer at the Super Billiards Expo in 2018. I remember our experience vividly. I was unimpressed.

John stuck a bunch of cues in the case and started pulling them out, saying "I don't see any problem with it." Which is when we explained that the liner of the case was loose. It would not seat fully into the shell of the case. If it was seated properly, it probably would have been fine. We couldn't remove the liner from the case either, for an unknown reason the liner wouldnt come out of the case more than halfway. He never offered to repair or replace it when we told him our complaints. He just passive aggresively kept pulling cues out of the case and saying "I don't see a problem with it" instead of addressing our concerns. We know that the case holds cues. And that the liners are removable. That wasn't our complaint. Not to mention, the joint collar on a $2900 Cognoscenti got chipped because the case liner wasnt properly seated in the case.

You have an upset customer because you didn't address his concern. That's why he went elsewhere. You didn't offer to replace the liner, the case, or spend enough time to address or fix our concern. Why? Is it because pushing sales is more important than dealing with your customers? That's why you're starring in this video.

You missed a golden opportunity to show the hundreds of people in your booth that you truly stand behind your product. I'm not trying to be rude. But you would have impressed a lot more people by taking five minutes at the Expo in 2018 resolving a real customer problem in front of your potential buyers.

This video shows me that you took a customer complaint about your product and an instance of poor customer service personally. Not professionally. I understand the need to defend your brand and your reputation. But the precedent you are setting for yourself is a bad one. I don't expect you to bend over backwards and go outside the realm of reasonable discourse to make everyone happy. We are hardworking people just like you. We want our nice things to last. We spend hard earned money on your case for a lifetime warranty and a reliable product. All you had to do was find common ground with the owner of the case. But you failed to do that. When it became evident that you were uninvested in us as cutomers, we left your booth dissatisfied and took our business elsewhere. I almost bought one of your cases with $300 cash in hand until I saw the way you interacted with the person who posted that review (both at the expo and online). I read the forums, nobody was in the right. You lost my sale because you didn't listen to the customer. And because you acted unprofessionally. If I decided to share a negative review, I certainly don't want to end up dealing with the backlash months later.

Why didn't you just replace the liner or have one of your staff figure something out to address our concerns? You never even pulled the liner out. You just shuffled cues in and out of it and treated us dismissively. You did zero investigation. You basically told us nothing was wrong when we told you we had a problem. You invalidated our concerns by doing that.

I worked customer service for 6 years. Here's the takeaway. Your potential buyers will become your existing buyers. Your existing buyers will become return buyers if they liked their experience. If they don't like their experience, they will become former buyers and caution potential buyers against becoming existing buyers because of their negative experience. It's also 10 times more expensive to gain a new customer than it is to keep an existing one.

That experience with your brand begins the first time you hear about a product. Not after the product has a problem. Not after the customer reaches out to you, not after you respond to a negative review.

I was your potential buyer, I really wanted a JB case and my first experience was a negative one. Nothing personal. I didn't like how you handled the situation.

Now I'm looking for other brands. The industry is competitive, and that's all it takes. I'm sure Gil was happy to sell him a case. That's how advertising works. Your existing customers will push more sales for you than any advertising campaign. They'll also cost you a lot of sales if you continue to treat them poorly.

I will just post the response I gave you on YouTube

The guy who posted the review NEVER said any of this and NEVER said a word about a Cog getting damaged. You guys are truly getting crazy here. I have EXACTLY ZERO REASON to treat you badly or let your leave with a case that does not work.

But let's dissect what you said: You said I did put cues in it and inspect it and try it out - even though your buddy claimed I didn't.

Your buddy claimed he didn't ASK FOR or WANT ANYTHING. He left the booth without making it clear that he didn't want that case or he would have gotten a new one.

HE ABSOLUTELY DID NOT SAY THAT A CUE HAD BEEN DAMAGED BECAUSE OF IT.

Yes I ABSOLUTELY took it personally when a person flat out lies about me and my brand. Your friend made another video that he posted on a facebook forum pretending to jerk off with the case.

So yeah, it's PERSONAL FOR SURE.

And spare the tripe about cost to acquire a customer. Every single day when I wake up there are new orders. Every day. I don't care if you wanted to buy a case because here is the bottom line. You could go any forum ANYWHERE and ask how we handle issues and the overwhelming response will be AWESOMELY.

But did you or your buddy ever stop to think that maybe your "experience" wasn't the norm? Maybe there was some other issue happening that made it seem like you were not getting the attention you think you should have? No, you didn't. You just left and your buddy went and CRIED to Gil and Gil was happy to sell him a case. Well over the years I have sold cases to people who cried to me about Gil and other makers. Shit happens sometimes but the bottom line is that your buddy could have turned around and said he wasn't happy with my answer and gotten a different outcome. Why? Because that is what I do since it doesn't matter to me if he owns the case he brought in or gets a new one. There is literally no reason for me not to make him happy other than he gives me ZERO indication that he isn't happy.

So tell you buddy to take some damn responsibility. According to you I tested the case WITH CUES - which sounds like what I would do - and found it to be no problem and working as it should work - so at that moment it's on him and ACCORDING TO HIM he didn't ask for or want anything.

And he only complains a YEAR LATER right before SBE - how convenient.......

--------------

I have been in customer service for 40 years and have learned that the customer is not always right and built my business so that I don't have to take this nonsense from a customer. You asked why I didn't have anyone else take care of your friend? Because there wasn't any indication that I needed to. Your buddy could have spoken up, you could have spoken up, the third guy trying to "get me" now could have spoken up - three adults and not one of you could find the voice to say this isn't acceptable to us.

Maybe you left unhappy but that was not communicated to me. For me the deal was done - but for the guy who has the case he STILL had a lifetime warranty - so he could have simply contacted us after the show and said he wasn't happy. But he didn't. No, instead he waits a year and then posts an INACCURATE hit piece on AZB and expects no pushback.

Well that is not going to happen. Now your friend made a veiled threat and I expect him to follow through and show up at the booth. Because I will have the camera filming and we will then see what happens as I again prove that he is not correct.

Thanks for the marketing lesson....why do you think our booths are packed at every show?

AND - our booth at SBE is PACKED - we impress buyers for four days with the quality we provide AND the customer service we give - there are dozens of stories of people who came to the booth with an issue and got taken care of. So you can ATTEMPT to assign motivation to me but so far you are completely wrong.

And the nonsense about a Cog getting chipped is utterly ridiculous. There is literally no chance that it happened because of that case. And there is ZERO CHANCE that your buddy would not have mentioned it in his "review" on AZB if it truly had happened.

And I am 1000000% positive none of you mentioned it last year because I ABSOLUTELY would have remembered that.


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