Go Back   AzBilliards.com > Main Category > Main Forum
Reload this Page Frozen to the Cushion or not?
Reply
Page 1 of 4 1 23 Last »
 
Share Thread Tools Rate Thread
Frozen to the Cushion or not?
Old
  (#1)
ChrisinNC
AzB Silver Member
ChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 2,173
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Boone, NC
   
Frozen to the Cushion or not? - 11-18-2019, 01:24 PM

By the rules, is an object ball deemed to be frozen to a cushion if it is so close that it appears it might possibly be deemed to be in contact with the outer fuzz/nap of the cloth textures, even if itís not fully and clearly frozen on the rail? This came up yesterday in one of our big tournaments, where I was called in to make a ruling, and as hard and close as I looked, it was still very hard to determine. I ruled it was frozen, since it looked to me like it might have been barely touching some of the outer fibers of the rail cloth.
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#2)
Black-Balled
He Rides the Skies
Black-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond repute
 
Black-Balled's Avatar
 
Status: Online
Posts: 39,909
vCash: 1200
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: This Toilet Earth
  Send a message via AIM to Black-Balled  
11-18-2019, 01:26 PM

Fibers touching = frozen.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#3)
Celophanewrap
Call me Grace
Celophanewrap has a reputation beyond reputeCelophanewrap has a reputation beyond reputeCelophanewrap has a reputation beyond reputeCelophanewrap has a reputation beyond reputeCelophanewrap has a reputation beyond reputeCelophanewrap has a reputation beyond reputeCelophanewrap has a reputation beyond reputeCelophanewrap has a reputation beyond reputeCelophanewrap has a reputation beyond reputeCelophanewrap has a reputation beyond reputeCelophanewrap has a reputation beyond repute
 
Celophanewrap's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 7,099
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Colorado
   
11-18-2019, 01:37 PM

I think it's probably a total judgement call. For me when I make that call I look to see if I
can see light between the ball and the cushion Like I'm sure most people do.
Touching a fiber or two isn't always definitive because the fibers aren't uniform, but I believe
it's a judgement call. Sometimes you might meet with some disagreement
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#4)
Black-Balled
He Rides the Skies
Black-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond repute
 
Black-Balled's Avatar
 
Status: Online
Posts: 39,909
vCash: 1200
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: This Toilet Earth
  Send a message via AIM to Black-Balled  
11-18-2019, 01:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celophanewrap View Post
I think it's probably a total judgement call. For me when I make that call I look to see if I
can see light between the ball and the cushion Like I'm sure most people do.
Touching a fiber or two isn't always definitive because the fibers aren't uniform, but I believe
it's a judgement call. Sometimes you might meet with some disagreement
No judgement in effective gameplay rules.

Fibers touching? Frozed!
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#5)
pt109
WO double hemlock

pt109 has a reputation beyond reputept109 has a reputation beyond reputept109 has a reputation beyond reputept109 has a reputation beyond reputept109 has a reputation beyond reputept109 has a reputation beyond reputept109 has a reputation beyond reputept109 has a reputation beyond reputept109 has a reputation beyond reputept109 has a reputation beyond reputept109 has a reputation beyond repute
 
pt109's Avatar
 
Status: Online
Posts: 28,174
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: out of country but incontinent
   
11-18-2019, 01:46 PM

My call.....if you could move the ball closer to the cushion....itís not froze.


Lionize your game.
http://www.alexpagulayan.com/

MAGIC CHALK call Marco Polo 647-287-8131

If pool players had to have knowledge of geometry and physics before talking about geometry and physics, all of the aiming threads would disappear.

Bob Jewett
SF Billiard Academy
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#6)
Black-Balled
He Rides the Skies
Black-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond repute
 
Black-Balled's Avatar
 
Status: Online
Posts: 39,909
vCash: 1200
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: This Toilet Earth
  Send a message via AIM to Black-Balled  
11-18-2019, 01:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by pt109 View Post
My call.....if you could move the ball closer to the cushion....itís not froze.
Foul!!!!

The cushion surface is comprised of cloth.

The cloth is comprised of fibers.

No moving balls. Foul!!!
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#7)
hang-the-9
AzB Silver Member
hang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond repute
 
hang-the-9's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 10,850
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MA
   
11-18-2019, 01:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
By the rules, is an object ball deemed to be frozen to a cushion if it is so close that it appears it might possibly be deemed to be in contact with the outer fuzz/nap of the cloth textures, even if it’s not fully and clearly frozen on the rail? This came up yesterday in one of our big tournaments, where I was called in to make a ruling, and as hard and close as I looked, it was still very hard to determine. I ruled it was frozen, since it looked to me like it might have been barely touching some of the outer fibers of the rail cloth.
There was a post about this before, the general agreement was that it's not frozen if some fibers are touching the ball but there is still a gap between the edge and the actual rail. If a bullet hits your hair but does not actually hit the skin, you are not shot, you were "almost shot". The ball is "almost" frozen.


"I'll back you against anyone, as long as you did not know you were playng for money"

Charter member of the D-Bag Club, we stick to the letter of the rules not the spirit, and up yours!
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#8)
couldnthinkof01
AzB Silver Member
couldnthinkof01 has a reputation beyond reputecouldnthinkof01 has a reputation beyond reputecouldnthinkof01 has a reputation beyond reputecouldnthinkof01 has a reputation beyond reputecouldnthinkof01 has a reputation beyond reputecouldnthinkof01 has a reputation beyond reputecouldnthinkof01 has a reputation beyond reputecouldnthinkof01 has a reputation beyond reputecouldnthinkof01 has a reputation beyond reputecouldnthinkof01 has a reputation beyond reputecouldnthinkof01 has a reputation beyond repute
 
couldnthinkof01's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,432
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: May 2013
   
11-18-2019, 02:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hang-the-9 View Post
There was a post about this before, the general agreement was that it's not frozen if some fibers are touching the ball but there is still a gap between the edge and the actual rail. If a bullet hits your hair but does not actually hit the skin, you are not shot, you were "almost shot". The ball is "almost" frozen.
Thats how I play it.
Put a cigarette under the rail next to the ball, if
you see white, the ball is not frozen.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#9)
JoeyInCali
AzB Silver Member

JoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond repute
 
JoeyInCali's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 23,765
vCash: 4400
iTrader: 80 / 100%
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: OC, California
   
11-18-2019, 02:05 PM

Place a white paper between the ball and the rail.
You see white from above? Not frozen.


  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#10)
Black-Balled
He Rides the Skies
Black-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond repute
 
Black-Balled's Avatar
 
Status: Online
Posts: 39,909
vCash: 1200
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: This Toilet Earth
  Send a message via AIM to Black-Balled  
11-18-2019, 02:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hang-the-9 View Post
There was a post about this before, the general agreement was that it's not frozen if some fibers are touching the ball but there is still a gap between the edge and the actual rail. If a bullet hits your hair but does not actually hit the skin, you are not shot, you were "almost shot". The ball is "almost" frozen.
I don't like it.

What is the measure of touching a rail necessary for the ball to be frozen, then?

Obviously, 1 is not...how about 2?
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#11)
pab
Center ball can do it all
pab has a reputation beyond reputepab has a reputation beyond reputepab has a reputation beyond reputepab has a reputation beyond reputepab has a reputation beyond reputepab has a reputation beyond reputepab has a reputation beyond reputepab has a reputation beyond reputepab has a reputation beyond reputepab has a reputation beyond reputepab has a reputation beyond repute
 
pab's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 156
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Las Vegas
   
11-18-2019, 04:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by couldnthinkof01 View Post
Thats how I play it.
Put a cigarette under the rail next to the ball, if
you see white, the ball is not frozen.
Yeah, I tried that and damn near burnt the house down.


Playing Cue - Jacoby, Edge Hybrid shaft
Break Cue - Jacoby, Heavy Hitter
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#12)
JazzyJeff87
AzB Plutonium Member
JazzyJeff87 has a reputation beyond reputeJazzyJeff87 has a reputation beyond reputeJazzyJeff87 has a reputation beyond reputeJazzyJeff87 has a reputation beyond reputeJazzyJeff87 has a reputation beyond reputeJazzyJeff87 has a reputation beyond reputeJazzyJeff87 has a reputation beyond reputeJazzyJeff87 has a reputation beyond reputeJazzyJeff87 has a reputation beyond reputeJazzyJeff87 has a reputation beyond reputeJazzyJeff87 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 991
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: MD
   
11-18-2019, 04:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by couldnthinkof01 View Post
Thats how I play it.
Put a cigarette under the rail next to the ball, if
you see white, the ball is not frozen.
Yah. A smoke and a flashlight from someone phone when necessary can really illuminate the situation
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#13)
Black-Balled
He Rides the Skies
Black-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond repute
 
Black-Balled's Avatar
 
Status: Online
Posts: 39,909
vCash: 1200
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: This Toilet Earth
  Send a message via AIM to Black-Balled  
11-18-2019, 04:56 PM


via Imgflip Meme Generator
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#14)
slop stroke
I drink, theyfore I ain't
slop stroke has a reputation beyond reputeslop stroke has a reputation beyond reputeslop stroke has a reputation beyond reputeslop stroke has a reputation beyond reputeslop stroke has a reputation beyond reputeslop stroke has a reputation beyond reputeslop stroke has a reputation beyond reputeslop stroke has a reputation beyond reputeslop stroke has a reputation beyond reputeslop stroke has a reputation beyond reputeslop stroke has a reputation beyond repute
 
slop stroke's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 2,119
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Feb 2007
   
11-18-2019, 05:32 PM

I was told (heresay I tell ya) that Johnny Archer once said "the balls were touchin but just not quite frozen."

I learned about this rule 20 years ago from a BCA instructor, and his counsel has never failed me: if rail fibers are touching the ball then the ball is frozen. BTW - light will shine through -- if the light is bright enough - it's a refraction kind of thing. Some cases will have more fibers touching vs. others. YMMV.


"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brotherís eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#15)
EddieBme
AzB Silver Member
EddieBme has a reputation beyond reputeEddieBme has a reputation beyond reputeEddieBme has a reputation beyond reputeEddieBme has a reputation beyond reputeEddieBme has a reputation beyond reputeEddieBme has a reputation beyond reputeEddieBme has a reputation beyond reputeEddieBme has a reputation beyond reputeEddieBme has a reputation beyond reputeEddieBme has a reputation beyond reputeEddieBme has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 443
vCash: 500
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Texas
   
11-18-2019, 05:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyJeff87 View Post
Yah. A smoke and a flashlight from someone phone when necessary can really illuminate the situation
Use an IPhone, snap a picture, and maximize the photo.
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 1 of 4 1 23 Last »

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.