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JohnGalt
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11-08-2010, 04:13 PM

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Originally Posted by justnum View Post
I think players would agree that they could pour their own cups of cold water given a cooler. If it helps ease expenses associated with being in the tournament. Like the scheduling of matches and rest.

I agree the trusses for the camera and lights are expensive equipment. That is why players get a discount if they pay early.

So on paper the only upfront expenses are the arena, equipment and insurance. Maybe the staff is paid after services are rendered, like the players.

Too bad more people with your clarity and vision don't produce events, we could have a successful tour around the world and we could all get rich!

And yes, I am being sarcastic.
  
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justnum
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11-08-2010, 04:18 PM

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Originally Posted by JohnGalt View Post
Too bad more people with your clarity and vision don't produce events, we could have a successful tour around the world and we could all get rich!

And yes, I am being sarcastic.
That is an admirable goal. If only there was a way to get rich off of being cheap and luring investors who do not think about what they are investing in.

Maybe the lottery is a good way. Or a pool tournament. The casino was my favorite all the odds were calculated ahead of time all that was needed are fillers for tickets and seats.

Last edited by justnum; 11-08-2010 at 04:20 PM.
  
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11-08-2010, 04:24 PM

I am not trying to bash on Barry he had run the tournament forever. I am just discussing the expenses.

Since all the financial transactions haven't been completed a healthy audit would motivate parties to complete the transaction.

If you don't like audits than stick to advertising.

Audits are a lot of work. People have to travel and get information. It isn't easy. It isn't like selling, in an audit you actually have to find details no matter how small. That means checking and double checking the work.

It is even harder when parties do not disclose their books. It makes the guesswork less precise.

It is obvious some posters aren't interested in the payouts of players, they already got what they wanted.

Last edited by justnum; 11-08-2010 at 04:27 PM.
  
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11-08-2010, 04:30 PM

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Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
I see it's just your brain that is num!
well put! tap tap tap
  
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11-08-2010, 04:38 PM

It is clear once the businesses cash in from the tourney the players can wait out the storm.
  
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11-08-2010, 04:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by justnum View Post
I am not trying to bash on Barry he had run the tournament forever. I am just discussing the expenses.

Since all the financial transactions haven't been completed a healthy audit would motivate parties to complete the transaction.

If you don't like audits than stick to advertising.

Audits are a lot of work. People have to travel and get information. It isn't easy. It isn't like selling, in an audit you actually have to find details no matter how small. That means checking and double checking the work.

It is even harder when parties do not disclose their books. It makes the guesswork less precise.

It is obvious some posters aren't interested in the payouts of players, they already got what they wanted.
I think that az is your place to go to to vent because in your heart you want to promote pool but in your trousers you lack the kahunas? Post
  
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justnum
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11-08-2010, 04:42 PM

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Originally Posted by BilliardsHQ.com View Post
I think that az is your place to go to to vent because in your heart you want to promote pool but in your trousers you lack the kahunas? Post
A professional audit starts with identifying failures of the past so they are not repeated. As it stands the players lack a lot of knowledge about what a tournament consists of aside from playing pool.

For me it is about the players not the sport. People are my primary concern not titles.
  
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11-08-2010, 04:49 PM

Would you like me to look at the details of your business?
  
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JohnGalt
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11-08-2010, 04:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by justnum View Post
I am not trying to bash on Barry he had run the tournament forever. I am just discussing the expenses.

Since all the financial transactions haven't been completed a healthy audit would motivate parties to complete the transaction.

If you don't like audits than stick to advertising.

Audits are a lot of work. People have to travel and get information. It isn't easy. It isn't like selling, in an audit you actually have to find details no matter how small. That means checking and double checking the work.

It is even harder when parties do not disclose their books. It makes the guesswork less precise.

It is obvious some posters aren't interested in the payouts of players, they already got what they wanted.


I think I understand the point of what you're trying to say, and I actually agree with you on some general theories at times, but you type in a style that hurts my head to read. Like fragmented pieces of a dream strung together in a sentence form. I really can't explain it.

If you are saying that all the players should be paid, in full, before everyone considers an event to be successful, then I agree. There are plenty of costs and work involved, which you seem to underestimate. I am aware of these costs and work, but I still think the players should be paid immediately at the conclusion of playing (or next day during business hours, whatever), and there is no excuse for putting players on payment plans. Especially when you run the most prestigious event and all eyes are on you.

Assuming that players will keep coming, because they always do, does not make it acceptable to bait and switch people.

If you say you are going to do something, and then get the ideal situation in which to do it, and you know people are watching to see if you do it, then why not just do it?
  
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justnum
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11-08-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnGalt View Post
I think I understand the point of what you're trying to say, and I actually agree with you on some general theories at times, but you type in a style that hurts my head to read. Like fragmented pieces of a dream strung together in a sentence form. I really can't explain it.

If you are saying that all the players should be paid, in full, before everyone considers an event to be successful, then I agree. There are plenty of costs and work involved, which you seem to underestimate. I am aware of these costs and work, but I still think the players should be paid immediately at the conclusion of playing (or next day during business hours, whatever), and there is no excuse for putting players on payment plans. Especially when you run the most prestigious event and all eyes are on you.

Assuming that players will keep coming, because they always do, does not make it acceptable to bait and switch people.

If you say you are going to do something, and then get the ideal situation in which to do it, and you know people are watching to see if you do it, then why not just do it?
For me it was the treatment of the players that just disappointed me. They had tough schedules. They were exposed to the same conditions as fans and vendors. They had no area for themselves.

I have taken some bad jobs and seen a lot of mistreatment at various companies. But what I saw was bad.

My conclusions are the players aren't involved enough with tournaments, like most companies and their employee benefits. It would help if they understood what businesses go through so they can contribute to the solution.

But if people are unwilling to discuss a tournament outside of the payout and prizes it is difficult. How can players help if people don't want to talk about details?

The argument that people just have to sign up and do what they are told is old and does not generate the energy these events need.
  
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justnum
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11-08-2010, 04:59 PM

I want Barry and the US Open to succeed it has historic traditions.

How can people help to make it succeed if we aren't allowed to discuss the details.?
  
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JohnGalt
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11-08-2010, 05:13 PM

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Originally Posted by justnum View Post
I want Barry and the US Open to succeed it has historic traditions.

How can people help to make it succeed if we aren't allowed to discuss the details.?

Unfortunately, the prevailing mindset is "something is better than nothing"

Until the players refuse to accept these conditions, nothing will change for them. Darren and Corey could have refused to play until the cash that was promised to be on display was actually put there. And then the crowd would have gotten angry (rightfully so) and the promoter would have had to remedy the problem. By doing what was promised. It's accountability. The players just accept what they're given, because hey, it's better than nothing.

And then lots of people on here just bash you if you question what happened.

It is very sad, and IMO Barry had a chance to refresh the faith that so many people have in him, but it didn't happen. And honestly, it doesn't happen because everyone will be back again to play next year, and Barry knows this. I can't say that he does this mainly because he knows he can get away with it, but I can say that nothing will really happen if he does, so why should he care? He can keep promising one thing and doing another and players will still show up because they want the title.

And if you question what happened, you get bashed and people say "well, what have you done?"

Well, how about what many other successful promoters and events have done? This problem doesn't happen at the amateur events in Vegas all summer (more players, more organization, more money involved), it doesn't happen at Derby City, it doesn't happen at Dragon Promotions events, etc... (if it does, then please excuse my ignorance - it shouldn't happen at any event imo)

So, my question remains, why does it happen at the US Open? How come no one can legitimately explain this?
  
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justnum
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11-08-2010, 05:30 PM

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Originally Posted by JohnGalt View Post
Unfortunately, the prevailing mindset is "something is better than nothing"

Until the players refuse to accept these conditions, nothing will change for them. Darren and Corey could have refused to play until the cash that was promised to be on display was actually put there. And then the crowd would have gotten angry (rightfully so) and the promoter would have had to remedy the problem. By doing what was promised. It's accountability. The players just accept what they're given, because hey, it's better than nothing.

And then lots of people on here just bash you if you question what happened.

It is very sad, and IMO Barry had a chance to refresh the faith that so many people have in him, but it didn't happen. And honestly, it doesn't happen because everyone will be back again to play next year, and Barry knows this. I can't say that he does this mainly because he knows he can get away with it, but I can say that nothing will really happen if he does, so why should he care? He can keep promising one thing and doing another and players will still show up because they want the title.

And if you question what happened, you get bashed and people say "well, what have you done?"

Well, how about what many other successful promoters and events have done? This problem doesn't happen at the amateur events in Vegas all summer (more players, more organization, more money involved), it doesn't happen at Derby City, it doesn't happen at Dragon Promotions events, etc... (if it does, then please excuse my ignorance - it shouldn't happen at any event imo)

So, my question remains, why does it happen at the US Open? How come no one can legitimately explain this?
Barry made promises he did not keep. He should not have made promises. The players can make requests. Corey had to ask the fans to turn the heat up at the event, literally one fan adjusted the thermostat. Other players decided to wear sweaters or jackets.

Players shouldn't be making those requests to the audience those requests belong to staff workers.

Last edited by justnum; 11-08-2010 at 05:36 PM.
  
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11-08-2010, 05:37 PM

fans were adjusted in the back by staff of the conference center. Thermostats in the bldg did not do anything. all was handled by city staff via computer which btw was pretty cool!
  
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jay helfert
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11-08-2010, 08:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by justnum View Post
I think players would agree that they could pour their own cups of cold water given a cooler. If it helps ease expenses associated with being in the tournament. Like the scheduling of matches and rest.

I agree the trusses for the camera and lights are expensive equipment. That is why players get a discount if they pay early.

So on paper the only upfront expenses are the arena, equipment and insurance. Maybe the staff is paid after services are rendered, like the players.

There are two transactions of expense, the upfront fees you detailed well. And then the tournament prizes. The tournament has two rounds of income before the event takes place and while the event is taking place.

On paper it mostly seems like a follow the guidelines operation and make sure everything gets to the event on time.

The facts on paper are a helpful thing. It seems better than an outdoor festival with similar amenities. There seems to be room for improvement when it comes to people getting around the arena, it was kinda of tight. People had to walk under the seats.
I like you, you're really a fun guy to talk to. I explain to you about the well over 100K (more like 125K) in expenses that it costs to produce the U.S. Open and you respond by telling me that the players could pour their own water to cut expenses. I wish you could see the smile that comment put on my face. I promise you I will discuss this with Barry next time we talk. I'm sure it will put a smile on his face as well. Thanks!


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Last edited by jay helfert; 11-08-2010 at 09:00 PM.
  
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