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07-16-2013, 12:45 PM

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Originally Posted by beav99_4life View Post
The problem in this situation is that the government IS the enemy
Then lets remove all this national security stuff. I trust the rest of the world to play nice.
  
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07-16-2013, 12:55 PM

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Originally Posted by beav99_4life View Post
The problem in this situation is that the government IS the enemy
That possibility is why I'm still pondering.

..but I'm still not fond of Snowden.


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07-16-2013, 02:01 PM

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Originally Posted by beav99_4life View Post
The problem in this situation is that the government IS the enemy
Sadly true.
Those who are cheering it on as it uses the IRS, NSA, EPA, and DOJ to attack private citizens/businesses are also enemies of the state.
There's a handful of them on AzB.


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07-16-2013, 02:10 PM

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Originally Posted by Wileydog View Post
Then lets remove all this national security stuff. I trust the rest of the world to play nice.
A preemptive strike removes the need for national security.

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"Thank You Mr. Snowden"
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"Thank You Mr. Snowden" - 07-17-2013, 07:31 AM

Tuesday, July 16, 2013 2:43 PM

Former US Senator Gordon Humphrey Thanks Snowden for "Exposing Astonishing Violations of the US Constitution"; Email Exchange Between Snowden and Humphrey

A tip of the hat goes to former two-term GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey of New Hampshire who thanked Edward Snowden for exposing a "massive violation of the United States Constitution".

Humphrey served in the United States Senate for twelve years as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, the Armed Services Committee and the Judiciary Committee.

Glenn Greenwald at The Guardian has the email exchange between Snowden and Humphrey and his own email exchange with Senator Gordon Humphrey as well.

Greenwald contacted Humphrey regarding the authenticity of the email exchange and received this reply from the former senator.

Mr. Greenwald,

Yes. It was I who sent the email message to Edward Snowden, thanking him for exposing astonishing violations of the US Constitution and encouraging him to persevere in the search for asylum.

To my knowledge, Mr. Snowden has disclosed only the existence of a program and not details that would place any person in harm's way. I regard him as a courageous whistle-blower.

I object to the monumentally disproportionate campaign being waged by the U.S. Government against Edward Snowden, while no effort is being made to identify, remove from office and bring to justice those officials who have abused power, seriously and repeatedly violating the Constitution of the United States and the rights of millions of unsuspecting citizens.

Americans concerned about the growing arrogance of our government and its increasingly menacing nature should be working to help Mr. Snowden find asylum. Former Members of Congress, especially, should step forward and speak out.

Regards,
Gordon Humphrey


Please click on the link above to see Humphrey's Email to Snowden and Snowden's reply to Humphrey.

Mike "Mish" Shedlock
  
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07-17-2013, 11:21 AM

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Originally Posted by pt109 View Post
Still pondering, Jimmy.....some thoughts...

Sun Tzu said that your biggest asset is your spies...
...know your enemy and know yourself.

Yes, he was speaking within the framework of conducting war against one's enemies. The question begs asking: Why are "we the people" being treated and looked upon as the "enemy" of our own representative government? And, if so, isn't Snowden then an enemy of the "government" and it's treasonous acts, yet a hero to it's people?

I suspect that many calling Snowden a hero were also complaining that
there should've been more awareness about 9-11, Boston bombing, etc.

I imagine so, yet I don't see how continual illegal constitutional rights violations by the government (spying on every private communication of every US citizen), would have prevented either act, nor do I believe that either of those two acts justifies the dismantling and trampling upon of our constitutionally recognized civil liberties. A quote by Ben Franklin comes to mind: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

The CIA was a valuable asset...when some went rogue, much of it was
resolved internally.

True, but in order to make any type of reasonable comparison we must find a similar past situation where it was our own citizenry who were the ones considered and treated as the "enemy", rather than a foreign threat?

Those people around the world that are smiling about the leaks?
...they aren't laughing WITH you.

Maybe, but if they are, they may be smiling at the impending death of the "land of the free" at the hands of our own elected government.

I would give any hacker more credit....
..Snowden was in a position of trust.....and betrayed it.

Many would say that the "government" first betrayed the U.S. Constitution and the "trust" of the citizens and Snowden, knowing fully the consequences, stood up against an illegal and unconstitutional act by the government and for the "people".

Would you leave your kids with Snowden?

I don't know whether I would or not. But I see this as an act of integrity and courage, not one of immorality or cowardliness.

If I was in a platoon in enemy territory, I don't want him watching my back.

I understand that you feel as though Snowden is a traitor and is not to be trusted, I feel differently. I believe that Snowden firmly believed that the government's actions were illegal and tyrannous, nothing more, nothing less. I also believe that Snowden would be more likely to prevent a My Lai incident that betray his countrymen or country.
Pt, I understand that many people have a very strong dislike for Snowden, his actions go against everything we have believed in for our entire lives; the Pledge Of Allegiance made and God Bless America sang every day at school, military service parades filled with American pride as we saluted our Flag, but somehow, it seems as though although we still want to believe in and embrace the founding principles that made and kept America the greatest country ever to grace the world, it appears that it is our government that is no longer willing to uphold those principles, and therefore may not be deserving of our blind loyalty.

God Bless America.

J
  
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07-17-2013, 11:53 AM

Like him or not, want him thrown in prison or a statue made of him, the guy did reveal that the US gubment is spying on every single person in the US. Are they infringing on our constitution, I have not a fact, but I would guess they are. With all the secret this and that going on, there is not anyone to keep them in check.

Me, I personally am glad the guy exposed what was going on....but that's just me. As far as him being a whistle blower and following the rules of a whistle blower, I would guess he'd be in Cuba right now and none of this would have come out had he tried to go thru the "right channels". Those in power would have pulled the rug out from under him so fast, even his kin woudln't know where he was.....he would have just vanished.
  
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07-17-2013, 12:19 PM

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Originally Posted by jimmyg View Post
Pt, I understand that many people have a very strong dislike for Snowden, his actions go against everything we have believed in for our entire lives; the Pledge Of Allegiance made and God Bless America sang every day at school, military service parades filled with American pride as we saluted our Flag, but somehow, it seems as though although we still want to believe in and embrace the founding principles that made and kept America the greatest country ever to grace the world, it appears that it is our government that is no longer willing to uphold those principles, and therefore may not be deserving of our blind loyalty.

God Bless America.

J
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07-17-2013, 12:26 PM

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Originally Posted by onepocketron View Post
Like him or not, want him thrown in prison or a statue made of him, the guy did reveal that the US gubment is spying on every single person in the US. Are they infringing on our constitution, I have not a fact, but I would guess they are. With all the secret this and that going on, there is not anyone to keep them in check.

Me, I personally am glad the guy exposed what was going on....but that's just me. As far as him being a whistle blower and following the rules of a whistle blower, I would guess he'd be in Cuba right now and none of this would have come out had he tried to go thru the "right channels". Those in power would have pulled the rug out from under him so fast, even his kin woudln't know where he was.....he would have just vanished.
If they want to collect and store all the phone numbers I call and receive, I have no problem with it. If knowing those numbers help prevent another 911, good for them.
  
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07-17-2013, 12:29 PM

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Originally Posted by Wileydog View Post
If they want to collect and store all the phone numbers I call and receive, I have no problem with it. If knowing those numbers help prevent another 911, good for them.
That's fine and dandy, but who in the hell are you to say we should all give up our rights?


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07-17-2013, 12:32 PM

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Originally Posted by beav99_4life View Post
That's fine and dandy, but who in the hell are you to say we should all give up our rights?
You arent losing a single right. Your phone company keeps all that info. Do you have a problem with that?
  
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07-17-2013, 12:40 PM

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Originally Posted by Wileydog View Post
You arent losing a single right. Your phone company keeps all that info. Do you have a problem with that?
Spoken like a true sheep. There's no point in any further discussion with someone who sees no rights being violated. If you said "Yep, I'm giving up a few liberties, but its worth it to me", then possibly.


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07-17-2013, 12:43 PM

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Originally Posted by beav99_4life View Post
That's fine and dandy, but who in the hell are you to say we should all give up our rights?
If you don't have anything to hide, then you won't mind if we take a look around, will you?

I'm having a hard time summoning any outrage at this Snowden guy. I think transparency in government is a good thing. I need to research more before committing myself to an opinion, though.


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07-17-2013, 12:50 PM

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Spoken like a true sheep. There's no point in any further discussion with someone who sees no rights being violated. If you said "Yep, I'm giving up a few liberties, but its worth it to me", then possibly.
You have the right to not have a phone to prevent the phone company from tracking you.. You have a right to not use the GPS satellites our government lets you use. If you want total privacy, you can alway buy a cabin in the woods and never be afraid again. It's amazing what you are free to do, if you want it.
  
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07-17-2013, 12:53 PM

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Originally Posted by the420trooper View Post
If you don't have anything to hide, then you won't mind if we take a look around, will you?

I'm having a hard time summoning any outrage at this Snowden guy. I think transparency in government is a good thing. I need to research more before committing myself to an opinion, though.
My thoughts exactly.
  
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